gryffinmaster

I think the accusations of sexism, misogyny, and philandering thrown at him recently may have gotten to him while trying to write a female hero.

Why So Blu?

This.


And not to mention his mediocre fill-in on Justice League.

Mike86

Not saying that couldn’t have played into it but then what exactly did he pitch them? This film was his idea in the first place and it’s rumored WB gave it to him for replacing Snyder. He must have had something in mind. Plus he’s written countless hours of stories centered around strong female characters. While his personal problems may have made things harder I find it kind of hard to believe he couldn’t “crack the code” on the character. It’s not like it’s something he has nothing to base it off of. There’s a ton of source material and he’s no stranger to comics/superhero films.

Hokeyboy

You're insisting WB is doing this to punish him for Justice League without any facts or sources whatsoever to back you up on this, despite Whedon admitting he couldn't crack the story?

Why I'm flabbergasted...

Mike86

I cited a source from around the release of Justice League where he was rumored to have been dropped from this film at that time. The source denied the rumors at that time. Clearly it gained enough traction for a site like like EW to pick up the story.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/22/joss-whedon-batgirl/

gryffinmaster

By that logic, we should’ve definitely had a good Fantastic Four movie by now.

Rough conceptual outlines can change and falter when you start digging into the tone, themes, and antagonist. Batgirl doesn’t seem like an easy character to get up on the big screen, especially when you think about her coexisting with Batman.

Mike86

Huh? Not sure I get the Fantastic Four analogy. We haven’t had a name attached to any of the films who knows/has written a lot of comic material. It’s not like he’s a stranger to that kind of thing.

I honestly don’t think a Batgirl film should be that complex to crack. Especially since it seemingly was going to be it’s own thing and not necessarily relying on Batman (so they wouldn’t have to tie it to the rest of the mess that is the DCEU).

fujishig

I'm not even sure how you have a Batgirl without tying her into Batman...

fumanstan

I don't really see how rumors of Whedon being dropped back then mean that it's because of how Justice League turned out and the studio holding him accountable.

The comment about Justice League in the article you link to seem to be from the writer more then part of the actual rumor, so other then that there's no indication that that's the case.

I haven't paid as much attention to accusations and didn't know Whedon was named, but if so this seems much more likely.

gryffinmaster

Emphasis on the bold sentence: there’s a ton of FF source material to work with. If all that was required was using the prior stories, one of the three movie adaptations should’ve been a winner.

On top of that, the actual story writing and plotting really weren’t too hot in Avengers. The character interactions saved it. He was building Batgirl from the ground up, too, whereas several standalone Marvel movies did the backstory-building for him.

How do you make a standalone female-driven superhero movie about a heroine who essentially owes her existence to a (superior) male hero?

Code to crack.

DJariya

You would also need to factor in JK Simmons as Jim Gordon since he was introduced in Justice League.

Mike86

My point was more that the material is there and I’m sure Whedon isn’t a stranger to it. It’s debatable as to the quality of the Avengers films but they were serviceable films.

It was never the ideal situation but given that this universe is already in play she probably wouldn’t have had an origin. Just plot a story based around the character. Doesn’t seem like a huge code to crack. Seems like the Nightwing film is moving along fine and I’d argue that character has more direct ties to Batman than Batgirl who’s more inspired by him.

Mike86

It was definitely out there as a rumor. I knew I remembered it. I don’t think EW (say what you will about them but they don’t typically report on nothing) would have written an article for no reason.

I obviously have no concrete proof and am speculating but it seems awfully coincidental that this was rumored and then he steps down. Also let’s not put aside that this isn’t the first case of issues with a director involved with a DCEU film.

gryffinmaster

It’s very debatable.



This isn’t Spider-man. The only iteration of Batgirl many (most?) people have seen is Alicia Silverstone. She needs a story.

Kal-El

I couldn’t care less about this movie, but my favorite behind the scenes theory is that there never was a Batgirl movie to begin with. That this was all just a smokescreen for his coming on to direct JL after Snyder got fired.

Mike86

I mean I know they’re not perfect films and truthfully I’m not a huge fan of either film but I think they’re good. I actually prefer Age of Ultron in some ways to be honest. I at least think he’s talented enough to deliver a good film under normal circumstances (which Justice League clearly wasn’t delivered under).

The Alicia Silverstone version is so far removed at this point that I’d hardly consider it a factor. Like I said introducing certain characters the way the DCEU has been established thus far is far from ideal but I’d imagine the solo film would have started with her established already. You probably could work in some flashbacks or maybe a prologue that gives her backstory. Also again doing a Batgirl film shouldn’t be any harder than a Nightwing film who’s a character much more directly tied to Batman.

DthRdrX

This is going to fall into the cancellation pile with a lot of the other films previously announced.

P.S. I think they should make a 15 minute Booster Gold short that reboots the entire thing.

Mike86

I wouldn’t doubt if it it does land up in the pile of announced but in development hell projects along with half the other announcements that will probably never see the light of day.

fumanstan

I'm not discounting the rumor itself from a few months ago, i'm simply saying there was no indication that it was due to him being blamed for Justice League.

Again, the wording of the EW article is basically "Justice League isn't doing well so the rumor is believable" and not "Justice League is doing bad so it's Joss Whedon's fault."

Any searches online that I can find regarding this from November seem to just point back to EW but I can't find the original source of the rumor.

http://collider.com/joss-whedon-dire...atgirl-rumors/
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/report-...arner-brothers

Unless you can find something otherwise, it seems like you're jumping to a massive conclusion that doesn't seem to have any merit other then your own speculation. I could be wrong, I just can't find anything that lends support to your claim.

gryffinmaster

They're entertaining enough, but they aren't testaments to Whedon's ability to craft a story.

(I, too, prefer Ultron from a story perspective).

Strange as this might sound, I'm not in much agreement about Nightwing.

A large portion of the reason why "Nightwing" exists instead of Robin is because Grayson needed his own entity and to achieve his own goals, even going so far as to focus on a different city, Bludhaven. He's built to stand alone, with or without a few flashbacks revealing his prior identity.

Batgirl, on the other hand, remains in Gotham and is the daughter of the city's police commissioner, and even has "BAT" in her name. It's quite difficult to separate her from Batman, and her name even indicates that she's a female -- perhaps younger, since she isn't "Batwoman" -- version of the main hero.

Semi-related: I'd love to see a Kate Kane movie.

fujishig

So this frees him up to take over X-men?

DJariya

I guess he probably had a very rough idea of what he wanted to do when he pitched this, but when it came to actually sitting down at a computer and constructing a script, it was probably easier said than done.

He even was quoted as saying that he "failed"

None of us here have written scripts before, so saying it should have been easy for him is a bit of an overstatement.

I read a quote from a director once when he sees a script, he always has to ask himself two questions:

1) Is this film-able?

2) Can I make this movie with the amount of money they are giving me?

Mike86

I never said easy, I just think he’s capable of it. For the record I don’t blame him. This reeks of typical WB over management and at the same time mismanagement of the DC properties. I could be wrong but I don’t think the story that’s out is the full one.

Mike86

I can see your point here somewhat but the thing is the Dick Grayson character should really be done justice and I’d like to see his full evolution into Nightwing. Starting as Robin and eventually wanting to gain his own identity rather than just as Batman’s partner. There’s a ton you can do there. He can work on his own without the backstory and without Batman involvement but I feel much the same about Batgirl.

One thing with Batgirl I’ve always felt is that she kind of stands alone though and isn’t always necessarily part of Batman’s team. She’s inspired by him and works alongside him at certain points in her career but even though they’re both Gotham heroes she can be off on her own. You could get away with references to Batman or some short scenes but I don’t necessarily think you need him there for her film to work.

dex14

I guess all it takes to be considered for the job is a tweet?

If you're serious...contact me. [email protected]

— Michele Wells (@michelewells) February 22, 2018

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Yes I am serious. I will email you.

— roxane gay (@rgay) February 22, 2018

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