Jackskeleton

...but the Nolan Batman movies don't build from the other Nolan Batman movies?

RichC2

I think he's more stating that Batman didn't bring in the Justice League to bolster it.

The Bus

Same

nando820

Yeah that's what i meant, The Cap movies have elements and characters introduced in other movies. So it helps build on its world

hanshotfirst1138

That actually fascinated me a bit when I saw DKR. It doesn't even recap. It just assumes you've seen the previous two films.

hanshotfirst1138

I'm glad, I was worried that I would be a negative Nancy Naysayer after all of the buzz this was getting.

Super X

Agreed, I'm not a big fan of the shaky cam they used in a lot of early fight scenes. I'd like to see the work being done by the stunt performers.

I thought he was introduced quite organically. Wakanda was introduced in the last Avengers film, setting the stage for their involvement in the accords. T'Challa, as the son of the ruler of that nation, is introduced in exactly the way I'd have expected. Anything else learned about the character after that introduction may be surprising, but certainly didn't seem clumsy in any way.

Did you miss when Stark told her they'd be coming for her now after she helped Cap and Bucky escape? Clearly, there were going to be consequences.

I thought Hawkeye made his motivation clear through his first appearance and a line of dialogue a little later in the film. He was repaying a debt he felt he owed Wanda after Quicksilver died saving him in "Age of Ultron". As for Scott Lang, well, he was being asked for help by the Falcon and Captain America. Plus, he probably felt he owed Falcon after what happened at the New Avengers facility in Ant-Man's own film (which was even mentioned in this one).

So, the basic problem is that he had an intricate plan and, for the most part, it worked? And, as he said, he knew the Avengers were too powerful for him to defeat, so he manipulated events to get them to go after each other. And what does Zack Snyder have to do with this?

Given that we only really saw the end of the rescue, it's a bit of a stretch to say there were no issues at all.

stingermck

Spot on SuperX

raven56706

the movie was good. i mean borderline great but it was flawed with alot of crap. Plus again, the ending was shit

karoomba

I agree with the sentiments that it was ok but not great. This felt like more of AoU to me.

I think some of the character motivations also didn't feel right or were not convincing. It's been mentioned before that Tony Stark was totally unlikable in the film and how he was convinced by one mother who lost a son felt like a cop out (even if he was feeling all emotional about his own mother from the holodeck presentation he did earlier).

And on that note, how the state department employee happened to be waiting for Stark outside the washroom or elevator or whatever was highly convenient.
Someone else mentioned that some actual outrage/protests from ppl on the ground would give more gravitas. Also, it would be good to see others in the UN or government, and citizens in general sympathize with Cap as well...ya know, ppl actually picking sides.

The guilt trips about the Battle of NY was stupid, it was an alien invasion and the avengers were brought together by SHIELD..bad example IMO. The South Africa hulk/IM fight would be a much better example. The SHIELD tri carrier crash was also a bad example of the heroes being wreckless.

On a final note, does anyone else find it conflicting that there exists a SHIELD and a CIA (seems redundant) and a World Council and a UN? Does the world council report to the UN..or a division of it...how does it differ from a UN security council? In the MCU they should go with one approach when it come so to these organizations ..either embrace fantasy (SHIELD) and or go with real world (CIA).

CaptainMarvel

That kind of bugged me as well....

1) The alien invasion from the Avengers was ultimately caused by the government holding and testing the Cosmic Cube as a weapon, which allowed it to be stolen.

2) The DC/SHIELD helicarrier battle was caused by the government getting infiltrated, decades before the Avengers were formed.

The Avengers didn't precipitate those events, and the world would have been up shit creek without the Avengers there to stop them.

Really, only the events of Age of Ultron are the Avenger's fault (and primarily Tony's fault).

stingermck

On the flip side tho, the footage they showed of New York focused on the Hulk, so maybe they were being blamed for using an unstable weapon.

fumanstan

Vision also had a line about the way things have escalated since the appearance of the various Avengers, right? Kind of a Batman type of good/evil argument that's come up before in comics.

karoomba

That reminds me, there was a line from General Ross asking something like "Where's Thor and Hulk? If I lost a couple of nukes I know people would be asking questions" Well gee, Thor is an intergalactic prince...a quasi-diplomat to Earth at this point. He isn't lost like say the Hulk. You can assume he's on Asgard, taking care of business.

Tho now I wonder if name dropping both of them was a tease for Thor 3.

robin2099

[QUOTEI thought he was introduced quite organically. Wakanda was introduced in the last Avengers film, setting the stage for their involvement in the accords. T'Challa, as the son of the ruler of that nation, is introduced in exactly the way I'd have expected. Anything else learned about the character after that introduction may be surprising, but certainly didn't seem clumsy in any way.][/QUOTE]

My biggest issues is the fact that we really had no idea what the Black Panther was or his importance. He just suddenly shows up as a martial arts badass after his father died. Did he use the Black Panther as inspiration? Was he already the BP? Was it passed on to him from another? How did he get the training to be that way?

[QUOTEDid you miss when Stark told her they'd be coming for her now after she helped Cap and Bucky escape? Clearly, there were going to be consequences.][/QUOTE]

Someone else mentioned that and I forgot Tony said that in the movie.

[QUOTEI thought Hawkeye made his motivation clear through his first appearance and a line of dialogue a little later in the film. He was repaying a debt he felt he owed Wanda after Quicksilver died saving him in "Age of Ultron". As for Scott Lang, well, he was being asked for help by the Falcon and Captain America. Plus, he probably felt he owed Falcon after what happened at the New Avengers facility in Ant-Man's own film (which was even mentioned in this one).
][/QUOTE]

Hawkeye I'll let slide because I can somewhat see that. Scott Lang's motivation still seems slim though especially with him trying to get closer to his daughter. For that matter, why wasn't he in the beginning of the movie since it was insinuated that he's an Avenger now at the end of his own movie?

[QUOTESo, the basic problem is that he had an intricate plan and, for the most part, it worked? And, as he said, he knew the Avengers were too powerful for him to defeat, so he manipulated events to get them to go after each other. And what does Zack Snyder have to do with this?][/QUOTE]

The problem was that his plan relies a lot on movie script logic to work. Here's some of the holes that I noticed in his intricate plan:

-Why did he know that Cap was close to Bucky?

-Why was he focusing on "Siberia 1991?"

-How did he know that TWS killed the Starks?

-How did he know that Cap would support Bucky of Tony found out?

-How did he sneak into a highly secure facility with someone else's identity?

-How did he find out all the info about the Winter Soldier program?

-So his ultimate plan was to show Tony the movie and commit suicide? Why not just email him the video? That would have torn the Avengers apart just as easily.

-His ultimate plan depended on Tony showing up to watch the video otherwise his entire plan would have backfired and it would have just been Cap and Bucky in Siberia with him running away.

Like I said, if this was a situation in which he was working with Crossbones or another bad guy I would be ok with it, but as it stands his entire plan depends too much on contrivance.

All we see at the ending is Falcon turning around and smiling. Based on how it's edited it's easy to assume that all that happened is he walked on got them out and walked out.

HN

^^ok, i gotta point out -- if you're going to remove the quoted person's name, at least leave the closing bracking in the open [q-u-o-t-e] so it's not so obnoxious to read.

Jackskeleton

Also, the stinger on ant-man shows us when Falcon calls up Scott. His motivation, well he seemed pretty happy to help out given their history.

You also saw a lot of dropped bodies at the prison. Seriously, you sound like you need everything spelled out. Black Panther didn't need to get a back story in this film. it can easily be tackled in his own movie in a more fleshed out way. The manner they introduced him in this film was organic enough and made a lot of sense as to why he was there.

Also, he did tell the Hydra officer that after Black Widow's paper work declassification, a lot of this info that you're wondering how he knew became public knowledge.

He called room service to discover the body and the prosthetic he used to make himself look like bucky. Sooooo, it seems a lot of your problems with the film just come from not paying attention.

Solid Snake

T'Challa mentions what it took to be the Black Panther. Wakanda's best warrior would be the Black Panther. Turns out... T'Challa is the Black Panther. Soooooo yeah. He's Wakanda's best. He never says He's the Black Panther at first. He just says what it takes to hold that mantle. And then you know everything you need to know on that.

Seriously, robin2099... did you not pay attention to anything related to T'Challa?

Do you need to know what fighting styles Cap knows too? Who trained him?

Or how he trained to use that shield?

Or how close is he w/ his religion?

Does he pray all the time?

Does he use condoms when he fucks?

Wait. HOW DID SCOTT LANG GET HUGE? We never saw him go that big before. What did scott do this time that he didn't before? Is it the same Pym setup as before but he's just going big?

Does Spidey know to fight or is it all based on his power set that motivates his actions?

How long has Viz gotten dense for Wanda? Did it just start when he was cooking?

Has Natasha tried to search for Banner or did she let it go?

WAIT. Potts and Stark are w/ issues? We never saw that. They're just going to tell us that? NOOOOO. I want to see when she bitchslapped Tony for being a piece of shit.

Seriously.. a lot of things that robin2099 wonders about.. it's right there or is literally irrelevant. You are an exposition whore, man.

Ketamine

I think it pretty spot on for the government to screw something up then try to blame others. Not a big stretch there.

Obi-Wanma

I didn't get that impression at all from the end of Ant-Man. We got that someone was asking about him, and we got a scene from this film where Falcon says "I know a guy" as the stinger.

CaptainMarvel

No, but you think Tony or Natasha would have said, "hold on a second..."

Solid Snake

Never thought about it at the end now but.. Spidey has been around for 6 months and. CW mentions that Tony has been active for 8 years now, just to get a strict timeline in a way here. Ant-Man takes place a bit before CW and during CW? Is that right?

But yeah....Ant-Man was't being recruited for the Avengers. Otherwise.. he'd already be in it by the beginning.

karoomba

Wasn't it spider-man they were teasing at the end, in the Falcon/journalist park bench scene?

Obi-Wanma

She says, "we've got a guy who crawls on walls" or something to that effect, and it was presumed that she was talking about Spider-Man at that time.

slop101

FYI, these Marvel movies are taking place in "real time". Just as much time flies between the stories in the movies as does between the theatrical releases.