Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk
Reload this Page >

Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Old 07-09-20, 01:42 PM
  #276  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,964
Received 298 Likes on 221 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by mndtrp View Post
I think we're "debating" it because those of us who haven't read the source material would like some clarification to the more superhuman aspects of Captain America's physical abilities.
I haven't read the comics, but here's my take.

When we think of new characters taking on the "mantle" of particular superhero name, we often expect them to have very similar abilities. If you're going to be called "Spider-Man," you best have some web-slinging abilities (whether biological or via a nifty gizmo), super-human strength and reflexes, "spidey-sense," etc. A new Iron-Man better have a metal suit, a new Thor better have a hammer and able to harness lightning, etc.

However, this isn't always the case. There's been new Batmans, and since there's no specific abilities aside from the "toys," pretty much any person could take up the mantle. However, there's also been instances where maybe the abilities came from a different source, or were expressed differently. Take Steel in DC, created as part of the "Death of Superman" arc that recreated the "spirit" of Superman, and some of the abilities via a suit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_...e_Man_of_Steel

There's also instances like Thor or Green Lantern, where the passing of the mantle has often included transferring of the abilities, via a totem.

For Captain America, yes, Steve Roger's version was one of serum-supplied superhuman strength and abilities, but the name "Captain America" doesn't directly tie to any abilities or specific superhuman characteristics, per se. So passing of that mantle may depend more on the "spirit" of the new carrier than on their specific abilities. Falcon has a winged super suit. He can still use that winged super suit as Captain America (a quick search shows he does do just that in at least some comics). So the new Captain America will have super powers, but they'll come from his suit instead of from a serum.

I do think the upcoming show The Falcon and the Winter Soldier will clarify this situation some more. There's a reason it's not called "Captain America and the Winter Soldier." I think it will be about Sam Wilson and his path to accepting the mantle of Captain America.

Trying to get back on topic, while Yelena may be getting introduced to "replace" Natasha going forward, I'm not convinced Yelena will even be called "Black Widow" in the MCU. How often did Natasha's "codename" even come up in the movies?

Last edited by Jay G.; 07-12-20 at 04:42 PM.
The following users liked this post:
IBJoel (07-09-20)
Old 07-09-20, 02:36 PM
  #277  
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,669
Received 268 Likes on 187 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I haven't read the comics, but here's my take.

When we think of new characters taking on the "mantle" of particular superhero name, we often expect them to have very similar abilities. If you're going to be called "Spider-Man," you best have some web-slinging abilities (whether biological on via a nifty gizmo), super-human strength and reflexes, "spidey-sense," etc. A new Iron-Man better have a metal suit, a new Thor better have a hammer and able to harness lightning, etc.

However, this isn't always the case. There's been new Batmans, and since there's no specific abilities aside from the "toys," pretty much any person could take up the mantle. However, there's also been instances where maybe the abilities came from a different source, or were expressed differently. Take Steel in DC, created as part of the "Death of Superman" arc that recreated the "spirit" of Superman, and some of the abilities via a suit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_...e_Man_of_Steel

There's also instances like Thor or Green Lantern, where the passing of the mantle has often included transferring of the abilities, via a totem.

For Captain America, yes, Steve Roger's version was one of serum-supplied superhuman strength and abilities, but the name "Captain America" doesn't directly tie to any abilities or specific superhuman characteristics, per say. So passing of that mantle may depend more on the "spirit" of the new carrier than on their specific abilities. Falcon has a winged super suit. He can still use that winged super suit as Captain America (a quick search shows he does do just that in at least some comics). So the new Captain America will have super powers, but they'll come from his suit instead of from a serum.

I do think the upcoming show The Falcon and the Winter Soldier will clarify this situation some more. There's a reason it's not called "Captain America and the Winter Soldier." I think it will be about Sam Wilson and his path to accepting the mantle of Captain America.

Trying to get back on topic, while Yelena may be getting introduced to "replace" Natasha going forward, I'm not convinced Yelena will even be called "Black Widow" in the MCU. How often did Natasha's "codename" even come up in the movies?
Thank you for using the correct term, "Batmans", instead of the foolish "Batmen" . Also, I think in the Ultimate comics there was a "Red Widow" (who was Nick Fury's ex-wife, if I recall correctly?). So that's a possible codename, but yeah, the MCU doesn't love aliases.
Old 07-09-20, 06:32 PM
  #278  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mondo Kane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 11,434
Received 51 Likes on 45 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

One reason I could see why Sam was chosen was because Cap noticed Falcon's internal leadership that he had shown with the troops who had PTSD in Winter Soldier. This may have been something new to Rogers as he carried this tactic (In honor of Sam) to Endgame with those group therapy sessions.
The following users liked this post:
IBJoel (07-10-20)
Old 07-09-20, 06:45 PM
  #279  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 37,665
Received 487 Likes on 314 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Mondo Kane View Post
One reason I could see why Sam was chosen was because Cap noticed Falcon's internal leadership that he had shown with the troops who had PTSD in Winter Soldier. This may have been something new to Rogers as he carried this tactic (In honor of Sam) to Endgame with those group therapy sessions.
I think Captain America staying in the military world is a good thing. The Winter Soldier taking over was an obvious choice, but even he knows that his mind is so fucked up that he couldn't do it. Sam was a great choice for the movies and it happened to tie into the comics too. I even noticed that he started doing more "shield" stuff in Civil War (using his wings) which was obviously inspired by continuing to work with Captain America.
Old 07-09-20, 06:56 PM
  #280  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: behind the eight ball
Posts: 19,428
Likes: 0
Received 74 Likes on 50 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post

Trying to get back on topic, while Yelena may be getting introduced to "replace" Natasha going forward, I'm not convinced Yelena will even be called "Black Widow" in the MCU. How often did Natasha's "codename" even come up in the movies?
I don't think it was ever mentioned in Iron Man 2. The general who had her tied to a chair in The Avengers called her Black Widow. I think it was mentioned during the end of Winter Soldier when she was in the media and at congressional hearings. That's about it.

And on Agents of SHIELD, one of the Koening's was talking to Daisy and said people online were shipping Quake and Black WIdow. They referred to the couple as "Quack."
Old 07-12-20, 12:27 PM
  #281  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: a mile high, give or take a few feet
Posts: 14,112
Likes: 0
Received 72 Likes on 61 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I haven't read the comics, but here's my take.
Thank you for the explanation, it helps a lot.
Old 09-15-20, 01:44 PM
  #282  
Moderator
 
dex14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36,408
Likes: 0
Received 1,740 Likes on 1,202 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Delayed again:
https://variety.com/2020/film/news/b...FB6-N1AGsmBNas
Old 09-15-20, 01:53 PM
  #283  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
DJariya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: La Palma, CA
Posts: 67,024
Received 1,249 Likes on 922 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Not a surprise but a bummer. The theatres are going to be light on new releases for the rest of the year.
Old 09-16-20, 03:00 PM
  #284  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Obi-Wanma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Detroit - Formerly known as Obi-Wan Jabroni
Posts: 11,677
Received 302 Likes on 164 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Does the fact that this was pushed back again instead of being pushed to Disney+ indicate that maybe Disney isn't as happy with the buy rates for Mulan as they're saying that they are publicly?
The following users liked this post:
IBJoel (09-16-20)
Old 09-16-20, 03:09 PM
  #285  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
DJariya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: La Palma, CA
Posts: 67,024
Received 1,249 Likes on 922 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

The postponement is still not official. The studio hasn't said anything yet. Only Variety is saying it may move.

and Disney hasn't released any information on sales from Mulan.
Old 09-16-20, 03:12 PM
  #286  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Obi-Wanma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Detroit - Formerly known as Obi-Wan Jabroni
Posts: 11,677
Received 302 Likes on 164 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Of course they haven't released any numbers, and I don't expect them to, but they did indicate that they were "very pleased".

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...elease-numbers
Old 09-16-20, 03:32 PM
  #287  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 36,721
Received 863 Likes on 628 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

I suspect that most studios are going to sit on their films until there is a COVID-19 vaccine, and the infection rates start dropping to almost nothing.

Or in the unlikely event that the virus miraculously goes away on its own.
Old 09-16-20, 05:59 PM
  #288  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,042
Received 89 Likes on 73 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Should just dump this in theaters at the end of November around Thanksgiving. That way if it didn't meet expectations, they could blame Covid for the disappointing box office performance. Even in normal times, I felt this one was going to be a tough sale. Her and Hawkeye come off too much like second bananas in the MCU.
Probably should of been a Disney+ project all along.

Last edited by ddrknghtrtns; 09-18-20 at 01:53 PM.
The following users liked this post:
IBJoel (09-24-20)
Old 09-18-20, 10:57 AM
  #289  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,304
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 7 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
I suspect that most studios are going to sit on their films until there is a COVID-19 vaccine, and the infection rates start dropping to almost nothing.

Or in the unlikely event that the virus miraculously goes away on its own.
Could be looking at years for that to happen.
Old 09-18-20, 01:42 PM
  #290  
DVD Talk Legend
 
d2cheer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 10,616
Received 123 Likes on 90 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by ddrknghtrtns View Post
Should just dump this in theaters at the end of November around Thanksgiving. That way if it didn't meet expectations, they could blame Covid for the disappointing box office performance. Even in a normal times, I felt this one was going to be a tough sale. Her and Hawkeye come off too much like second bananas in the MCU.
Probably should of been a Disney+ project all along.
Yeah I agree with this.
Old 09-18-20, 01:44 PM
  #291  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 36,721
Received 863 Likes on 628 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Could be looking at years for that to happen.
True, but I don't know what they can do.

They can't keep spending $200M+ to make movies that gross $30M playing in nearly empty theaters.

I have no doubt that a lot of people would be willing to go to a theater to see a movie, but there are also a lot that aren't comfortable with that, too. If it's 50-50, then they're leaving half of the potential grosses on the table until the bug goes away.
Old 09-18-20, 02:01 PM
  #292  
Premium Member
 
E Unit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 6ft Behind Wolf in the Situation Room
Posts: 16,786
Received 446 Likes on 352 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Expect Disney+ to factor in this one way or another. Based on current estimates, they brought in 9 million who paid for Mulan in the first 9 days. At $30 a pop, they brought in $270 million. And people are still purchasing it.

Black Widow has the MCU audience built in which almost always makes more than any Disney movie. So expect Disney+ to play it safe and probably release this like Mulan, and perhaps a limited release in theaters. That is if the coronavirus doesn't decimate more of the population. I'm fine sitting at home and being safe and still able to watch it in 4k with Dolby Atmos.
Old 09-23-20, 01:07 PM
  #293  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 5,613
Received 104 Likes on 74 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

New release date: May, 7 2021
https://deadline.com/2020/09/black-w...al-1234582771/
Old 09-23-20, 01:08 PM
  #294  
Moderator
 
dex14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36,408
Likes: 0
Received 1,740 Likes on 1,202 Posts
re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Damn...
Old 09-23-20, 02:10 PM
  #295  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mike86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 22,312
Received 561 Likes on 457 Posts
Re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

No shock at all. I kind of wish they would just quit throwing dates around. Just delay films indefinitely or figure something else out. We probably won’t be out of the woods with this situation for a long time.
The following users liked this post:
IBJoel (09-24-20)
Old 09-23-20, 02:29 PM
  #296  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,042
Received 89 Likes on 73 Posts
Re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
No shock at all. I kind of wish they would just quit throwing dates around. Just delay films indefinitely or figure something else out. We probably won’t be out of the woods with this situation for a long time.
Will there even be any theaters left by May for this to open?
Old 09-23-20, 03:17 PM
  #297  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
DJariya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: La Palma, CA
Posts: 67,024
Received 1,249 Likes on 922 Posts
Re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Shit, 6 month delay. Wow. So Disney is basically delaying it about a year from when it was originally supposed to come out.
Old 09-23-20, 03:19 PM
  #298  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,964
Received 298 Likes on 221 Posts
Re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
No shock at all. I kind of wish they would just quit throwing dates around. Just delay films indefinitely or figure something else out.
I think they need dates for accounting and other business purposes. It helps the marketing and distribution departments to plan out the release, even if it eventually gets release. I know I always prefer the projects at work where they're planned out in advance, even if delayed, rather than the ones that are "we just decided to do this and want it done yesterday."
The following users liked this post:
IBJoel (09-24-20)
Old 09-23-20, 03:33 PM
  #299  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Josh-da-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Bible Belt
Posts: 36,721
Received 863 Likes on 628 Posts
Re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I think they need dates for accounting and other business purposes. It helps the marketing and distribution departments to plan out the release, even if it eventually gets release. I know I always prefer the projects at work where they're planned out in advance, even if delayed, rather than the ones that are "we just decided to do this and want it done yesterday."
Could also be that they're claiming release dates they think will be lucrative.
The following users liked this post:
Jay G. (09-23-20)
Old 09-23-20, 03:42 PM
  #300  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
The Antipodean's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 6,321
Received 51 Likes on 38 Posts
Re: Black Widow (2021, D: Shortland) - S: Scarlett Johansson - News and Rumors

After the MCU being so constant in our lives for more than a decade, nearly two years between Spider-Man and Black Widow is a blow. Took my son to pretty much every MCU movie from Iron Man (he was 4!) to now. Still, we’ll be there when they return.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.