Mike86

In the post you quoted I was saying that’s how I view them. Not that each actor in the franchise actually soft reboots the franchise. I still think it makes more sense versus Bond just seemingly never aging despite years passing.

kefrank

Why not? Have all the Bond actors had the same color eyes? And hair? Or are you referring to some reason other than a physical characteristic?

B5Erik

Seriously? You know why Idris Elba can't be bond and be believable as the same guy.

Bond can't be a freckle faced redhead, either. He's not Howdy Doody or Richie Cunningham. He can't be Asian, either. Or Hispanic. Or weigh 300 pounds. That's not the image people have of Bond. Bond is who he is. People can't spontaneously change ethnicities (and Bond certainly can't work as a fat guy).

Come on. We've been over this before. Knock of the P.C. garbage and be real.

Jay G.

Personally, I don't think most of those physically differences are an impediement to being Bond, anymore than a change in hair color is (remember when people were freaking out about Daniel Craig's casting because he's blond?). Maybe "fat" isn't believable, because the character is supposed to physically fit enough to be agile and aggressive in a fight, but if they could find someone who was technically overweight but still looked cool and could handle themselves in a fight it may be ok. Sammo Hung for Bond maybe?

It's not like "white' is Bond's defining characteristic. If you asked people to describe Bond as a character, they'd likely use words like cool, British, a fighter, cold-blooded, sharp dressed, able to get himself out of a tight spot, etc. None of those are characteristics that only white men can embody.

Who "can" be Bond is entirely subjective. Just because you're too narrow-minded to consider anyone beyond white men doesn't mean everyone else shares your view.

OldBoy

that is probably the most racist, Trump spewing nonsense i've seen in this movie forum in a long time.

Noonan

We're back on the "Bond can't be played by a black actor" nonsense, I see. Stay classy.

B5Erik

You're right. How dare anyone say Bond can't be a freckle faced redhead?

Stop the extremist P.C. nonsense.

Noonan

If Bond can't be played by a Black actor from England or someone from Asia...etc, why are you cool with Connery shoving a deep Scottish accent down our throats in the part?

No need to answer; we all know it's the color of his skin.

Jay G.

Why can't he be a freckle faced redhead though? What is there specifically about Bond, the character, that prevents a freckle faced redhead from playing him, aside from the initial description and the physical attributes of actors that previously played him? Why is red hair objectionable, and blond hair not? Do you still think Daniel Craig shouldn't have played Bond because he's blond? Or should Craig have dyed his hair black?

Basically, as soon as you alter the physical appearance from the original book description, any line you draw after that is arbitrary. Your line seems to be race, which speaks more about you than the character.

We already accept that both Sean Connery and Daniel Crag can be Bond, or at least an incarnation of Bond. If it's going to be a different actor anyway, and thus not look, sound, or act exactly like the previous incarnation, I don't see a reason why there has to be limits based on race or appearance.

Noonan

Time to make some heads spin....

Henry Golding would make a fantastic Bond. I'd love to see him get the part.

B5Erik

You're absolutely right about that last point. Without a doubt. But, again, get off the P.C. soapbox and be real. People can't spontaneously change ethnicities. A black/Hispanic/Asian Bond simply cannot be the same guy that came before. That's reality. Some of you apparently don't like that reality.

And, again, you're right. Not everyone shares that that view - but a majority of Bond fans share that view. I've been a member of Bond fan boards, and while a small percentage was open to the idea of Colin Salmon taking over after Pierce Brosnan, the majority prefer to keep some kind of continuity.

For me, personally, I don't want them to change a thing about the Bond that I've been watching since 1977. I had issues with Daniel Craig until Skyfall. He's still not in my Top 3 Bond actors because he's just outside that Bond sweet spot that all the actors before him hit. He's great, but he isn't quite the James Bond that I prefer. (I'd take Dalton, Connery, or Brosnan over him any day.)

I don't like radical changes to any long term characters.

So I don't want that freckle faced redhead turning Bond into Howdy Doody Cunningham. Or an Asian Bond turning him into Jackie Chan. Or a female Jane Bond (which was first floated about 18 years ago). Sorry if any of that offends any of you.

dex14

I actually do really like that when I saw that suggested a while back.

Jay G.

People can't spontaneously change into a different person either. Somehow it makes sense that Sean Connery and Daniel Craig are the same person, just because they're both white? Once the actor changes, the restrictions on who the replacement can be are just arbitrary. Considering everything else that can change between actors (age, height, hard color, eye color, accent, etc.), I don't see why race (or red hair) would be one step too far. And weren't we just discussing that the new films would likely be a new continuity anyway? Why can't that new continuity feature a Bond that's different in appearance?

Was that a poll, and have they done any polls since? Do you think that the general viewing audience, who make up the bulk of ticket sales to Bond films but aren't fanatic enough to frequent James-Bond only fan boards, feel the same?

What about Skyfall made a blond Bond suddenly acceptable?

Wow, you're coming off super racist and bigoted. Why is a redhead automatically Howdy Doody, or Asian automatically Jackie Chan? You're basically suggesting no redhead, Asian, or woman can embody the non-physical attributes of James Bond, just because of their appearance, race, or gender.

I think Charlize Theron was great in Atomic Blonde as a British spy, and embodied almost all the characteristics of James Bond that I listed before. I don't think there particularly "needs" to be a female James Bond, but if for some reason they picked one, I wouldn't dismiss the choice out of hand just because there hadn't been one yet. A blond James Bond was "unacceptable" until it was done, and then people realized the hair color didn't matter at all.

Jay G.

I could see it.

OldBoy

dude. seriously gtfo of this thread. no need for you or the bs you spew. no PC, Bond is a FICTIONAL character, like any other FICTIONAL character and can be whatever the director, writer imagine him/her to be. he/she is not one race, one creed, one ethnicity. Bond is a name of a character created a long long time ago in a galaxy far away where it was more bigoted and racist then the world is supposed to be now. so take your garbage and just leave. for fuck's sake...

B5Erik

So someone who believes in continuity and tradition and doesn't want to change those things is automatically a bigoted racist?

Seriously???

Jay G.

Except, you don't believe in continuity and tradition, since you're willing to let them break those, up to a point. If you were an absolutist about those, you'd maybe have a point, but you'd also have to object to them placing Bond in modern day, or resetting continuity with Craig, or casting a Scottish person, or one with blond hair.

You've compromised continuity and tradition before, so falling back on that to object to a change of race or something else you find objectionable rings hollow. You're not objecting because it's a change, Bond has always changed, you're objecting because it's a change you don't like.

Also, implying that a redhead is automatically Howdy Doody, and an Asian is automatically Jackie Chan, is what makes you racist and bigoted.

Artman

Well, for now it's Barbara Broccoli who makes that decision for the films...she's already ruled out Bond being a woman. She did great going with the somewhat out of the box choice of Craig, and I'm sure it'll be the same approach here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone not on any of these lists.

IBJoel

Cars also can't turn invisible, but here we are. I understand, to a certain extent, where you're coming from. There are certain impossibilities that we accept in film because they are part of the agreement we make with fictional universes and when things change that we know are not part of that specific agreement, they are glaring to us. You're right: The world knows James Bond as a white guy. That's what he is in the popular consciousness. But that consciousness is not static. I'd love to talk about storytelling, Jungian theory, and symbolism (I wrote several college papers on the topics) but that's a little off-topic for this thread.

I would say, if the films specifically dealt with James Bond as a member of the historic, privileged upper class, you'd have a point: He needs to be white. But the movies are not about that. They're about a suave, good-looking guy that fights international super criminals.

No one here is being "PC". No one is demanding James Bond change to be black/Asian/LGBT/female/whatever. We're saying, "Hey, if they're doing colorblind casting, this person would be a cool choice." I don't think anyone in this thread is going to boycott the next James Bond movie if they cast Tom Hiddleston or Henry Cavill.

And again, the continuity in these films is A. not really there beyond a few winks and nods (with the recent exception of the Craig films) and B. not important to the story being told. You could have 25 Bond films with 25 different actors and 25 unrelated plots and nothing would be all that different. See also: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/BroadStrokes

B5Erik

You do understand what hyperbole and sarcasm are, right?

I'm just saying Bond has a look, and Daniel Craig's dirty blonde hair isn't an issue (Bond could always dye his hair or just get a lot of sun). Craig isn't exactly a platinum blonde! It looks more like brown at most angles and in most light. It's darker than mine, and they call my hair dirty blonde.

Bond has a 67 year history looking largely the same. Because Ian Fleming created him that way. It's the height of arrogance to think that you guys know the character better than his creator did.

Yeah, and that bit was also one of the most soundly criticized and reviled bits in Bond movie history! Bond fans HATED the invisible car!

DaveyJoe

You're not offending anyone as much as the thought of a Black Bond offends you.

B5Erik

It doesn't offend me, it would disappoint me in that the character that I've loved for 43+ years would be significantly changed.

Bond is, and always has been, just on the outer edge of the upper crust, elite class. Sadly, a black man is highly unlikely to have been born into that societal status in the UK. That's just a fact of life, so that would have a significant change to Bond's background, which would change who he is as a person. Bond shouldn't be someone affected by racism, with the anger, resentment, and bitterness that racism creates.

Jay G.

I do, but I'm not sure you do, if you thought that was a credible example of those things. So sarcasm means you meant the opposite of what you said. So you think red-headed or Asian people can play Bond fine?

It's not an issue for you, because you don't particularly care about it, and perform mental gymnastics to justify it. Was Bond dying his beard during his retirement in Skyfall?

Again, the film series has broken from the description Fleming wrote for Bond since day one. If you think Fleming's description is the one-and-only, and cannot be altered, then you should have objections for nearly every Bond. But it's only when a race change is suggested that you flip out (and for some reason, redheads?).

Right, SO MUCH more ridiculous than rockets firing from headlights, or an ejector seat. Also, maybe you should stick to speaking for yourself, instead of for "Bond fans" in general. You're not an authority on what "Bond fans" like. I'm a Bond fan, and I don't care about the same things you do.

Jay G.

From Casino Royale:
So, an orphan that didn't come from money, and is only on the "outer edge of the upper crust, elite class," because of an outside benefactor.

Now, ignoring that you think it's impossible that a 30-something black man in modern times could come from money, what about that above description couldn't apply to someone from another race or hair color?

B5Erik

So is it OK if a white man plays a previously black character?

And why is it when a white guy plays a white character on Iron Fist that a lot of people lost their shit, saying he should have been Asian since he was a martial arts expert?!?

Nevermind that the whole point of the character was being a fish out of water not once, but twice in his life (a rich New York kid orphaned on the way to the Himalayas, then returning to New York a decade later with the philosophies taught to him by the Buddhist monks who also were a martial arts society). People went online OUTRAGED that a white guy would play a white character!

Come on, you've got to see how stupid this is getting.