View Poll Results: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
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Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
#276
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
white privilege = male confidence = machismo = black macho..... eh its all the same. It all works for me!
The basics? Yes.
Bond was largely unchanged from 1962 through 1989. It was CLEARLY the same character. Why I have to keep re-posting this to prove that point, I don't know, but a lot of the anti-continuity people seem to ignore the facts...
George Lazenby's Bond got married to Tracy. She was killed at the end of that movie. Sean Connery's Bond was still hurting and enraged by her death, and went after Blofeld for revenge. Roger Moore's Bond visited Tracy's gravesite, clearly still saddened by her loss. Timothy Dalton's Bond STILL wasn't completely over her loss when Felix Leiter got married in Licence To Kill.
Same guy, obviously.
Now, soft reboot in 1995 when Pierce Brosnan took over. He was too young to have done that Bond stuff in the 1960's or 1970's, so they kept the character, and just shifted him forward to a new era. Same basic character, but before he was married.
The hard reboot came when Daniel Craig took over. He was clearly too young to have been fighting the Cold War, so they went back and portrayed a James Bond at the beginning of his 00 career, but just shifted the timeline forward again. Same basic character, same basic background, different era.
Now if you recast with Elba or any black actor it can't be the same basic character with the same basic background. Sure, he could have some of those things in common, but ask any black man in the UK if they live the same life as an upper class white family and they'll tell you, "No."
Someone previously posted how Bond reeks of white privilege. While I think the, "White privilege," tag is overused (sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't), it definitely fits with Bond. A black man cannot have experienced white privilege, so that part of Bond's character would be long gone (just part of what would make him a different character).
Like I said, in another 40 or 50 years society will likely have gotten to a point where you could have a black man play Bond and have life experiences close enough to what classic Bond experienced to make such casting work. But not now. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but it is what it is.
Bond was largely unchanged from 1962 through 1989. It was CLEARLY the same character. Why I have to keep re-posting this to prove that point, I don't know, but a lot of the anti-continuity people seem to ignore the facts...
George Lazenby's Bond got married to Tracy. She was killed at the end of that movie. Sean Connery's Bond was still hurting and enraged by her death, and went after Blofeld for revenge. Roger Moore's Bond visited Tracy's gravesite, clearly still saddened by her loss. Timothy Dalton's Bond STILL wasn't completely over her loss when Felix Leiter got married in Licence To Kill.
Same guy, obviously.
Now, soft reboot in 1995 when Pierce Brosnan took over. He was too young to have done that Bond stuff in the 1960's or 1970's, so they kept the character, and just shifted him forward to a new era. Same basic character, but before he was married.
The hard reboot came when Daniel Craig took over. He was clearly too young to have been fighting the Cold War, so they went back and portrayed a James Bond at the beginning of his 00 career, but just shifted the timeline forward again. Same basic character, same basic background, different era.
Now if you recast with Elba or any black actor it can't be the same basic character with the same basic background. Sure, he could have some of those things in common, but ask any black man in the UK if they live the same life as an upper class white family and they'll tell you, "No."
Someone previously posted how Bond reeks of white privilege. While I think the, "White privilege," tag is overused (sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't), it definitely fits with Bond. A black man cannot have experienced white privilege, so that part of Bond's character would be long gone (just part of what would make him a different character).
Like I said, in another 40 or 50 years society will likely have gotten to a point where you could have a black man play Bond and have life experiences close enough to what classic Bond experienced to make such casting work. But not now. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but it is what it is.
#277
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
The reality is that a black Bond with the exact same background wouldn't be believable for probabaly another 50 years. In 2020 or even 2030 there won't be anyone of that background in the black community in the UK. Not the exact background. There would still be significant cultural differences that such a person would experience in their lifetime, making it a different character with different attitudes than what has been written on the page and put on the movie screen.
Again, it's not fair and it's not right, but it is the way it is. Bond isn't supposed to be some social justice fantasy. It's supposed to have some basis in reality, and then stretched from there. If the whole thing is a fantasy then the movies won't have the same weight.
Like I said, in 40 or 50 years it probably will be a moot point and a black Bond will probably work then. But we're not there yet and we can't change reality to force the issue, no matter what filmmakers and movie fans may wish.
Again, it's not fair and it's not right, but it is the way it is. Bond isn't supposed to be some social justice fantasy. It's supposed to have some basis in reality, and then stretched from there. If the whole thing is a fantasy then the movies won't have the same weight.
Like I said, in 40 or 50 years it probably will be a moot point and a black Bond will probably work then. But we're not there yet and we can't change reality to force the issue, no matter what filmmakers and movie fans may wish.
The basics? Yes.
Bond was largely unchanged from 1962 through 1989. It was CLEARLY the same character. Why I have to keep re-posting this to prove that point, I don't know, but a lot of the anti-continuity people seem to ignore the facts...
George Lazenby's Bond got married to Tracy. She was killed at the end of that movie. Sean Connery's Bond was still hurting and enraged by her death, and went after Blofeld for revenge. Roger Moore's Bond visited Tracy's gravesite, clearly still saddened by her loss. Timothy Dalton's Bond STILL wasn't completely over her loss when Felix Leiter got married in Licence To Kill.
Same guy, obviously.
Now, soft reboot in 1995 when Pierce Brosnan took over. He was too young to have done that Bond stuff in the 1960's or 1970's, so they kept the character, and just shifted him forward to a new era. Same basic character, but before he was married.
The hard reboot came when Daniel Craig took over. He was clearly too young to have been fighting the Cold War, so they went back and portrayed a James Bond at the beginning of his 00 career, but just shifted the timeline forward again. Same basic character, same basic background, different era.
Now if you recast with Elba or any black actor it can't be the same basic character with the same basic background. Sure, he could have some of those things in common, but ask any black man in the UK if they live the same life as an upper class white family and they'll tell you, "No."
Someone previously posted how Bond reeks of white privilege. While I think the, "White privilege," tag is overused (sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't), it definitely fits with Bond. A black man cannot have experienced white privilege, so that part of Bond's character would be long gone (just part of what would make him a different character).
Like I said, in another 40 or 50 years society will likely have gotten to a point where you could have a black man play Bond and have life experiences close enough to what classic Bond experienced to make such casting work. But not now. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but it is what it is.
Bond was largely unchanged from 1962 through 1989. It was CLEARLY the same character. Why I have to keep re-posting this to prove that point, I don't know, but a lot of the anti-continuity people seem to ignore the facts...
George Lazenby's Bond got married to Tracy. She was killed at the end of that movie. Sean Connery's Bond was still hurting and enraged by her death, and went after Blofeld for revenge. Roger Moore's Bond visited Tracy's gravesite, clearly still saddened by her loss. Timothy Dalton's Bond STILL wasn't completely over her loss when Felix Leiter got married in Licence To Kill.
Same guy, obviously.
Now, soft reboot in 1995 when Pierce Brosnan took over. He was too young to have done that Bond stuff in the 1960's or 1970's, so they kept the character, and just shifted him forward to a new era. Same basic character, but before he was married.
The hard reboot came when Daniel Craig took over. He was clearly too young to have been fighting the Cold War, so they went back and portrayed a James Bond at the beginning of his 00 career, but just shifted the timeline forward again. Same basic character, same basic background, different era.
Now if you recast with Elba or any black actor it can't be the same basic character with the same basic background. Sure, he could have some of those things in common, but ask any black man in the UK if they live the same life as an upper class white family and they'll tell you, "No."
Someone previously posted how Bond reeks of white privilege. While I think the, "White privilege," tag is overused (sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't), it definitely fits with Bond. A black man cannot have experienced white privilege, so that part of Bond's character would be long gone (just part of what would make him a different character).
Like I said, in another 40 or 50 years society will likely have gotten to a point where you could have a black man play Bond and have life experiences close enough to what classic Bond experienced to make such casting work. But not now. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but it is what it is.
Ethnicity or skin color does not matter at all in a Bond movie because all bond movies are fictitious and don't play upon reality. Bond is also not full human. No human can jump from a train and land on another train and end up fixing the end of his sleeves like a male model. lol Bond movies are beyond ludicrous.
It's not far fetch to believe in a black bond. Hell if they make Bond half cyborg it's still believable. No Bond fan should get in an outrage over a black actor playing Bond unless they are racist.
#278
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Some people can't believe in a black bond..but they can believe in a white bond Daniel Craig that can:
1) Easily jog his ass on a huge crane reaching the sky chasing a guy and doesn't fall off
2) Die of poison, but gets resurrected by a needle to his chest
3) Jump from a train to another train like Spider-Man
4) Being butt naked and having his testicles blown off by kicks of a mad man under a chair and still survive
And so on and so on the fake ludicrous bullshit in these bond movies.
But no one can believe in a black bond?
What a world.
1) Easily jog his ass on a huge crane reaching the sky chasing a guy and doesn't fall off
2) Die of poison, but gets resurrected by a needle to his chest
3) Jump from a train to another train like Spider-Man
4) Being butt naked and having his testicles blown off by kicks of a mad man under a chair and still survive
And so on and so on the fake ludicrous bullshit in these bond movies.
But no one can believe in a black bond?
What a world.
#279
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
I really don’t care about Bond’s ethnicity. I just hope it’s good and doesn’t require a Martin Campbell reboot when it’s done.
#280
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Ethnicity or skin color does not matter at all in a Bond movie because all bond movies are fictitious and don't play upon reality. Bond is also not full human. No human can jump from a train and land on another train and end up fixing the end of his sleeves like a male model. lol Bond movies are beyond ludicrous.
It's not far fetch to believe in a black bond. Hell if they make Bond half cyborg it's still believable. No Bond fan should get in an outrage over a black actor playing Bond unless they are racist.
It's not far fetch to believe in a black bond. Hell if they make Bond half cyborg it's still believable. No Bond fan should get in an outrage over a black actor playing Bond unless they are racist.
How about Bond fans who go back DECADES with the character, and don't want to see him changed because they actually like the character as is? What a concept.
Seriously, change Bond significantly and he's Ethan Hunt or Jason Bourne. We don't need another Hunt or Bourne. We need BOND. The real James Bond, not a retconned, retrofitted for inclusiveness, PC Bond.
Last edited by B5Erik; 08-27-18 at 10:05 PM.
#281
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Actually, my suggestion was to give EON a 2nd franchise beyond Bond - 008, played by Idris Elba (the Sean Connery of this series, basically, to be followed by other black British actors).
The series could have a slightly different style and approach, but be close to Bond. They could even start it with 008 saving Bond's life in a Bond movie and spinning him off from there! Talk about gravitas - the guy who saved James Bond in his own series! He could be a cross between Trouble Man ("Mr. T") and James Bond in terms of personal character. (Mr. T was VERY Bond-like in a lot of ways.)
They could alternate releases every 2 years, which would give Bond a bit more time to breathe so they don't oversaturate the market with Bond movies (like they did in the 70's and 80's). It would be a win/win - and we'd get a new, cool, black 00!
I'm sorry - what's the downside of that?
#282
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
How old are you? 16? Yeah, if someone wants some semblance of continuity they're automatically a racist, huh? Disagree with someone on casting and you just go to the, "Racist," card, huh? Pretty weak argument, there.
How about Bond fans who go back DECADES with the character, and don't want to see him changed because they actually like the character as is? What a concept.
Seriously, change Bond significantly and he's Ethan Hunt or Jason Bourne. We don't need another Hunt or Bourne. We need BOND. The real James Bond, not a retconned, retrofitted for inclusiveness, PC Bond.
How about Bond fans who go back DECADES with the character, and don't want to see him changed because they actually like the character as is? What a concept.
Seriously, change Bond significantly and he's Ethan Hunt or Jason Bourne. We don't need another Hunt or Bourne. We need BOND. The real James Bond, not a retconned, retrofitted for inclusiveness, PC Bond.
I didn't know that James Bond was so high privileged that some of us who don't care about color in roles today, have to wait 40-50yrs to finally accept such a reality.
#283
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Bond isn't supposed to be in some alternate universe, he's supposed to live in our world (that's the way Ian Fleming created him). Our world is flawed and unfair. You may not care about color, but the upper class in the UK does. They know who can and can't be a part of their group. Idris Elba can't. Not fair, not right, but that's the way it is.
And what the hell would be wrong with Elba playing 008, an EQUAL to Bond in terms of intelligence and ability? But new and original. Wow, what a concept, huh?
And all that without completely rebooting and reimagining Bond in a way that would make him fundamentally a different character. Win/Win.
#284
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Some people can't believe in a black bond..but they can believe in a white bond Daniel Craig that can:
1) Easily jog his ass on a huge crane reaching the sky chasing a guy and doesn't fall off
2) Die of poison, but gets resurrected by a needle to his chest
3) Jump from a train to another train like Spider-Man
4) Being butt naked and having his testicles blown off by kicks of a mad man under a chair and still survive
And so on and so on the fake ludicrous bullshit in these bond movies.
But no one can believe in a black bond?
What a world.
1) Easily jog his ass on a huge crane reaching the sky chasing a guy and doesn't fall off
2) Die of poison, but gets resurrected by a needle to his chest
3) Jump from a train to another train like Spider-Man
4) Being butt naked and having his testicles blown off by kicks of a mad man under a chair and still survive
And so on and so on the fake ludicrous bullshit in these bond movies.
But no one can believe in a black bond?
What a world.
Britain has a two class social system. The aristocracy and the commoners.
The Bond character, as written, comes from the aristocracy.
Parliament is divided into two houses. House of Lords and House of Commons.
House of Lords is made up of members of the aristocracy. Lords, Barons, Dukes, etc. and assorted relatives. They are not elected. They are appointed by each other, or the queen, or inherit their seat.
House of Commons is everybody else. They are elected. The Prime Minister is House of Commons.
A black person could be a member of the House of Commons
A black person could be Prime Minister
A black person could not be a member of House of Lords. Not because he/she is black, but because there are no black aristocratic British families.
James Bond, based on his origin/backstory that has been used for 65 years, could be appointed to the House of Lords. Not because he is a 00 agent, not because he is white, but because of his family background.
If Bond were black you would have to create a new background/origin for the character. Some people don't want the origin changed.
Batman or Iron Man could be black. Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne couldn't. Both have origin stories that include wealthy white privilege. To make Iron Man or Batman black, and keep the Stark Wayne identities, would require changing their origin.
The majority of other characters it's moot. They are just average people from average backgrounds. Daredevil, Green Lantern, Flash, Fantastic Four, Bruce Banner, Bourne, Ethan Hunt, Mad Max, Punisher, and a zillion others could have their race changed without rewriting their origin.
The Black Panther has an origin that requires the character be black. Imagine somebody wanted to change the race of the character to white. It could be done but you would have to rewrite the origin.
Maybe a white scientist in Africa discovers the herbs/potions that gives The Panther his powers. He comes back to America and fights crime as The Black Panther. He calls himself that because of his black suit. Sounds lame, huh?
#285
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
The real key is that unless they go back to basing the movies int he 60's, or even the 70's, most of their arguments (that are actually based on what is in the books, not what made it into the movies) makes absolutely no sense.
#286
DVD Talk Hero
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Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Originally Posted by rw2516
The majority of other characters it's moot. They are just average people from average backgrounds. Daredevil, Green Lantern, Flash, Fantastic Four, Bruce Banner, Bourne, Ethan Hunt, Mad Max, Punisher, and a zillion others could have their race changed without rewriting their origin.
#287
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Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
You actually said if they make Bond half cyborg nobody would care. You invalidate your own argument.
#288
Moderator
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Bond doesn't take place in an alternate universe? I must have missed the headlines about the MI6 building being blown up.
#289
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
I'm not wild about the idea of a "James Bond Cinematic Universe". While we're always aware there are other espionage/intelligence organizations, and even other 00s cavorting about, the appeal of Bond was that he was always the "one man" you could count on to save the world. That was the high camp and fantasy of it all.
As far as continuity? You can't really complain about it in the James Bond mythos, because there isn't any. There's a vague backstory and that's it. The only real attempt to "connect" the universe has been in the Daniel Craig films.
As for trying to link up with the other movies?
As far as continuity? You can't really complain about it in the James Bond mythos, because there isn't any. There's a vague backstory and that's it. The only real attempt to "connect" the universe has been in the Daniel Craig films.
As for trying to link up with the other movies?
#290
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Even though Skyfall nixed the idea I still prefer to think of Bond as just a code name hence why he’s changed appearance and hasn’t aged. I don’t really have strong feelings on who plays Bond next. I like the franchise but I’m not a super fan.
#291
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Honestly I'm good with them just letting the franchise die as well. And as I revisit the previous movies I'm reminded of how often they tired to hard to keep it going back them as well. Saw parts of "Diamonds are Forever" recently and if was even worse than I remembered.
#292
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
This makes no sense. Bond always introduces himself by name. If it were just a "code name" then he'd be outed as an agent instantly.
#293
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Not necessarily. I mean considering that the films take place over different decades and various locations the people he encounters may not have heard the Bond name. Plus I mean if that’s the biggest stretch this franchise has to worry about it would be in decent shape. I think that would be a better idea than thinking it’s always been the same guy. At least most of the Bond films aren’t really directly tied together though so continuity doesn’t really matter. I kind of view each actor change as resetting the universe personally.
#294
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Agree with you there. As a matter of fact, I generally view each film (pre-DC) that way, for the most part. A VERY loose continuity at best.
Hell, Maude Adams alone indicates that Moore-era split off into parallel universes.
The only films that share a continuity are those in which Shirley Bassey sang the theme song.
Hell, Maude Adams alone indicates that Moore-era split off into parallel universes.
The only films that share a continuity are those in which Shirley Bassey sang the theme song.
#295
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Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
In the movie continuity, Bond's been active for over half a century. He lives in a world where the US was able to launch multiple shuttles full of Space Marines with laser cannons to take down a megalomaniac who was going to kill everyone on Earth. But he doesn't live in an alternate universe.
The closest we get is in OHMSS where he learns that he might be descended from a baronet named Thomas Bond, but (A) being descended from a baronet doesn't mean you're a baronet or even in line to inherit a baronetcy, and (B) a baronetcy isn't a peerage -- it's the highest level of the gentry, essentially a hereditary knighthood that more often than not was bought by "donating" money to the King. It was basically a way for rich commoners to put on airs without being admitted to the aristocracy proper.
A black person could be a member of the House of Commons
A black person could be Prime Minister
A black person could not be a member of House of Lords. Not because he/she is
black, but because there are no black aristocratic British families.
A black person could be Prime Minister
A black person could not be a member of House of Lords. Not because he/she is
black, but because there are no black aristocratic British families.
#296
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
#297
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Does racism against black people exist in the Bond universe? If Bond were black, would he have to deal with racism in any of the places he visits or from any of the people he meets in his adventures? Does a white Bond get away with more than a black Bond could? Would being black hamper any of what Bond can do? Or do they just cast a black actor as Bond and write it the same as if Bond were white?
#298
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
I'm reversing my position. I concern was that Bond come from privilege. A colonial background never occurred to me. I was stuck on "old" Europe.
The idea of a far east Bond is intriguing and also exotic.
Have his great, great, great grandfather an officer back in the Khyber Rifles days who fell for an Afghan princess or something.
The idea of a far east Bond is intriguing and also exotic.
Have his great, great, great grandfather an officer back in the Khyber Rifles days who fell for an Afghan princess or something.
#299
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Does racism against black people exist in the Bond universe? If Bond were black, would he have to deal with racism in any of the places he visits or from any of the people he meets in his adventures? Does a white Bond get away with more than a black Bond could? Would being black hamper any of what Bond can do? Or do they just cast a black actor as Bond and write it the same as if Bond were white?
#300
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Who would you like to see become the next James Bond?
Is the Daniel Craig version of Bond a naval commodore? I've only seen a couple of the movies, but he seems more like a working class man who got promoted because he excels at mayhem.