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Old 09-15-17, 09:26 AM   #76
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

I am so sad that I can't watch this until next week I guess It will have to wait until two weeks from now.
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Old 09-15-17, 09:29 AM   #77
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorDeb View Post
I am so sad that I can't watch this until next week I guess It will have to wait until two weeks from now.
I wouldn't be sad about. I wonder if you'll feel the same way after seeing it.
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Old 09-15-17, 10:34 AM   #78
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by dex14 View Post
So, I'm watching the movie and yea... the last act is fucking bizarre. But not enough to warrant all the buzz (yet). And I think to myself... how bad could this get to justify all the headlines? What are they going to do...
Spoiler:
kill and eat the baby?
And then they
Spoiler:
killed and ate the baby.


I know some people have said the less you know going into to this one the better. But I would advise reading some interviews with Aronosky and Lawrence first about the allegory of it all. By the end of the movie, the allegory is apparent, but I think that knowing more about it going in would help identify what is going on more. That is something that could improve on second viewing, but I don't know how many will want to watch this again.

Everyone was good in the movie and it was well made.
That reminds of the
Spoiler:
Three... Extremes segment Dumpings (2004) where
Spoiler:
she clothes hanger aborts her fetus to eat it
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Old 09-15-17, 10:44 AM   #79
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
Kyle Smith, former NY Post film critic and now at National Review, is up in arms over this:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...g-torture-porn

I wonder how someone who's seen it and liked it would respond to his assertions.
I'll add some spoilery thoughts. I strongly recommend anyone who hasn't seen it to... y'know... actually see it before reading this stuff (including that review), but that's me. As I said in my post above, it's Aronofsky, so you know to expect some level of grotesque violence (this IS marketed as horror, and probably for that reason... to keep non-horror folks a bit further away for now) and religious symbolism that is, to be frank, so on the nose that I would consider it borderline insulting (if I didn't enjoy the movie so damn much)

Alright here we go. Let the serious spoilers commence!!

Spoiler:

My one-sentence summary is this:
Honestly... it's a climate change movie wrapped in the story of the bible, as told by a man who struggles with relationships and thinks of himself as a genius.

There's a few things going on with the film worth noting before getting into what Kyle Smith is likely talking about.
1. It's about an artist who seems to love his fame more than he loves his current art and his wife, despite the fact that she adores him. The whole "you love me more than I love you" sort of thing. So that's one arc: He's a tortured artist looking for inspiration, she wants to have a family, he brings in strangers, she just wants to be with him, things get... fucked up.

2. Stack that on top of the bible allegory. Javier is the creator. The house (and property) is his creation. He loves his creation and he wants more. He introduces Man. There's a leak (great flood, y'all). There's more men. He introduces his own Child. Things get... fucked up.

3. Stack that on top of history of the earth from the perspective of Mother Nature, as it fits within the story of the bible. She's just trying to keep shit in order. To keep balance. But her husband (the creator) is more in love with his fans than her. They eventually break a sink, causing water to go everywhere (great flood, y'all) and they all leave. But they come back. People get out of control, and the house is getting torn apart. They want her dead because she stands in the way. She (basically) says fuck it, and torches the place by damaging the oil tank in the basement and setting it on fire.

So yeah... things start out nice and quiet... but as more people are introduced into her world (the people are constantly talking about how gracious He has been, without giving Mother any respect at all) things just get worse and worse for her. She still calls the house his (because it IS his house), but she's the caretaker, and he's letting them fuck it all up. When she DOES call it HER house, people laugh and scoff at her.

So. Kyle Smith. He gets a few things wrong.
Quote:
Deliberately grotesque and nauseating, and seemingly engineered to outrage Christians, especially Catholics, Mother represents a stain on the reputation of Paramount Pictures
Oh yes, some folks at Paramount are about to get fired. That said, I don't think Aronofsky made this specifically to outrage Christians, but given that it is, by far, his most personal work representing his struggle with religion and climate change, offending folks was inevitable. What I mean is, I don't think he's thinking, "HAHA! You stupid Christians!" He's had a cynical view of religion for a long time, but there's more going on here than just his interpretation of the bible.

Quote:
A few years ago he made Noah, in which the Old Testament patriarch was reimagined as an unlikely superhero doing battle with monsters made out of boulders.
I could be wrong, but isn't the rock monster thing based on the text that pre-dated the bible as we know it?

Quote:
In Mother, the Bible parallels emerge as sophomoric and sloppy — was the Virgin Mary actually present at the murder of Abel? I don’t think she was.
He's missing the point here. Yes, she takes on the roll of Virgin Mary for the sake of the child birth, but she isn't Virgin Mary throughout the entire film. She's mother nature.
Quote:
Loud, extravagant, and obnoxious, Mother is the kind of film that makes you want to walk out, demand your money back,
I respect this stance. 100%. If people don't want to see that 3rd act, they should walk out. It's heavy.
Quote:
then file for a restraining order that would forbid the director from coming within 500 miles of any filmmaking equipment again.
But this is silly.
Quote:
Aronofsky paints a vision of hell that goes way beyond making the point; it’s like a Sunday-school lesson in the form of a midnight movie from the schlockmeisters at Troma Entertainment, the fellows who gave you Class of Nuke ’Em High and Blood Sucking Freaks. Lawrence is utterly befouled and degraded, including by having her dress ripped off by a mob, and it’s piteous to watch.
Again, I DO respect this stance. It's not easy to watch. The only thing I can say is that at least there isn't a literal rape going on, but that doesn't change the fact that the beating scene is... tough to watch. It is.

Quote:
Critics will no doubt enjoy calling the film, particularly its second half, “subversive,” “brave,” “transgressive,” etc., as though any satirical impulse were less risky than mocking Christian dogma.
Again, I don't think Aronofsky is MOCKING Christian dogma. I think he's telling us about his struggle with accepting some of it. But I respect that interpretation.



For those who aren't sure what to expect, but REALLY want a warning about the violence. Kyle Smith says:
Quote:
But I don’t see any seriousness of purpose, just a Biblically-infused version of torture porn.
I won't disagree with that entirely, but this is nothing like Saw or Hostel with long shots of gore. But for those that want to know what kind of violence to expect:
Spoiler:
- A man is bludgeoned in the head, and bleeds on the floor.
- A man is shot in the face, point-blank, and the camera lingers on that for a few seconds
- There's a whole sequence of many people fighting and killing each other with quick shots of gruesome kills
- Some people are tied up, laid on the floor, and shot in the head
- a baby is killed (off screen) but people tear it apart and, yes, eat the pieces
- a woman is severely beaten, while obscenities are screamed at her, with the camera lingering on her face, although she is not killed
- people burn


Oh, also (not violence, but story stuff)
Spoiler:
4. The opening shot is of Rachel Weisz in front of a fire (edit: Maybe not her?? Dunno... looks like her...). Then Javier holding something precious. Then the house magically becoming whole again. The final sequence has Jennifer Lawrence in front of a fire. As she dies, Javier takes her heart, and... then the house magically becomes whole again, only this time, there's a different woman in her place.

This is VERY much about Aronofsky's relationships...
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Last edited by Dan; 09-15-17 at 11:15 AM.
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Old 09-15-17, 10:54 AM   #80
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Spoiler:
4. The opening shot is of Rachel Weisz in front of a fire.
Are you sure about that?
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Old 09-15-17, 10:59 AM   #81
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

^ yes. 100%. Okay 99%....
Spoiler:
she's uncredited, apparently... but it's her.
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Old 09-15-17, 11:00 AM   #82
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Is it confirmed anywhere? No offense to you if you're sure. I just didn't see the resemblance. And I'd be surprised if it was, to be honest.
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Old 09-15-17, 11:03 AM   #83
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

^ I get it. You're right that it's not confirmed... but
Spoiler:
in my theater, there was an open discussion afterwards (a Drafthouse Film Club thing, I guess) and a few people recognized her right off the bat. Also, some reviewers (ie: Alan Cerny and Jacob Knight) have said it's her, too.

So... not 100%... but 99%.
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Old 09-15-17, 11:05 AM   #84
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan View Post
^ I get it. You're right that it's not confirmed... but
Spoiler:
in my theater, there was an open discussion afterwards (a Drafthouse Film Club thing, I guess) and a few people recognized her right off the bat. Also, some reviewers (ie: Alan Cerny and Jacob Knight) have said it's her, too.

So... not 100%... but 99%.
I'd totally understand the meaning if it was. But, I'd be surprised
Spoiler:
that she'd do it!
I'd very much like to find out more about this.

Last edited by dex14; 09-15-17 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 09-15-17, 11:07 AM   #85
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Shit... Now I'm thinking those folks are all wrong!

Spoiler:

Sarah-Jeanne Labrosse is credited as Foremother. She's definitely the girl at the very end. No doubt.
but

Laurence Leboeuf is credited as Maiden. I think... that might be the girl. Not Rachel.
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Old 09-15-17, 11:20 AM   #86
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Apple!
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Old 09-15-17, 12:38 PM   #87
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Thanks, Dan. Much appreciated. I'd like to see it, but I'll wait till I'm in a position where I can turn it off and on and stop it if I feel I need to.

BLACK SWAN is the only Aronofsky film I've yet seen. I wasn't crazy about it.

A.O. Scott in the New York Times thinks it's a comedy. He calls it "a hoot."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/m...dayspaper&_r=0

Here's the last paragraph, no spoilers:

Quote:
It’s not clear that his gifts match his ambitions. He wants to be Kubrick, but maybe what we need is a new Blake Edwards. At a time when film comedy is mostly a verbal and psychical affair — the domain of writers and clowns — there is a dearth of funny directors with Mr. Aronofsky’s sophisticated chops. If he didn’t take himself so seriously, he could be a great comic filmmaker. But maybe “Mother!” proves that he already is.
Check out the comments also.
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Old 09-15-17, 01:10 PM   #88
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

The thing too about this movie, the truly bizzare material is only really at the last 30-35 minutes or so.
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Old 09-15-17, 02:06 PM   #89
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

I just watched the trailer for the first time. Reminded me of GET OUT, only instead of a young black man surrounded by creepy white liberals, it's a young millennial woman surrounded by creepy baby boomers. With a touch of NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD.
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Old 09-15-17, 02:12 PM   #90
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
BLACK SWAN is the only Aronofsky film I've yet seen. I wasn't crazy about it.
Yeah, I'll go out on a limb and say you probably won't like this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
I just watched the trailer for the first time. Reminded me of GET OUT, only instead of a black liberal surrounded by creepy white liberals, it's a young millennial woman surrounded by creepy baby boomers. With a touch of NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD.
Something like that, yes.
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Old 09-15-17, 05:33 PM   #91
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Just some fair warning, I MAY be wrong about one of the warnings about violence (maybe someone else can confirm?)

I said:
Spoiler:
- a baby is killed (off screen) but people tear it apart and, yes, eat the pieces


But one other person elsewhere said
Spoiler:
- you actually do see the baby's neck snapped backwards


It's a big enough difference that I don't want to mislead anyone in case I was wrong...
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Old 09-15-17, 06:59 PM   #92
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

You do see it.
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Old 09-15-17, 10:54 PM   #93
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

I didn't like this at all. I was hoping to, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. I saw a lot of biblical allegory. But, I'm not a fan of this particular type of film. I was bored, even in the parts I shouldn't have been. I felt like I was watching someone's bad dream for two hours.
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Old 09-15-17, 11:14 PM   #94
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Somehow I'm able to skip all the spoilers on this. Looking forward to seeing it tomorrow or Sunday.
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Old 09-16-17, 01:12 AM   #95
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Saw this on Thursday. The religious allegory was clearly there and the film played a bit better if you were aware of it.

Spoiler:

Bardem = God
Lawrence= Mother Earth
Harris= Adam
Pfeiffer= Eve
Gleeson Brothers= Cain & Abel


The issue for me was that it should not be required for audience to go in with that (specific) knowledge to enjoy the film. Quite a few people booed loudly once the film ended at the screening I attended.
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Old 09-16-17, 10:22 AM   #96
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Haha Mother! got an F cinemascore, meaning mainstream audiences (or those polled) fucking HATED it. Other films to get this score were Killing Them Softly, Bug, The Devil Inside, the Box, and Wolf Creek
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Old 09-16-17, 12:02 PM   #97
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rypro 525 View Post
Haha Mother! got an F cinemascore, meaning mainstream audiences (or those polled) fucking HATED it. Other films to get this score were Killing Them Softly, Bug, The Devil Inside, the Box, and Wolf Creek
Can't speak for the others, but IMO Killing Them Softly and Bug were excellent.
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Old 09-16-17, 12:39 PM   #98
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Can't speak for the others, but IMO Killing Them Softly and Bug were excellent.



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Old 09-16-17, 12:40 PM   #99
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

This also bombed, so it'll be gone from screens in no time.

IT is a juggernaut.

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Old 09-16-17, 12:47 PM   #100
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Re: mother! (2017, D: Aronofsky) S: Lawrence, Bardem, Pfeiffer, Harris

Not surprised. First review I saw said "some will hate this movie."
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