Spiderbite

Another shitty article. This guy just points out differences instead of acknowledging all the similarities to get his point across.

Did you see any black guys in the original Star Wars? There is a black guy in the new Star Wars. These movies are soooo different!

Brack

Did you really read the linked article? Because if you did, similarities are mentioned with each point made.

Mike86

Couldn't you argue that people saying that the film is too similar to the Original Trilogy are doing the same only in reverse? I mean yeah there are similarities but clearly there are differences too whether some people like to admit that or not. I don't think its really clear cut either way personally and think that both sides have valid points but I wouldn't completely call the film a total remake of A New Hope.

ntnon

Quite.

What I can't decide is whether they're broadly buying into the relief that this isn't seen to be as bad as the prequels, then judging it against the prequels and thus praising it disproportionately; whether reviewers are beginning to be less afraid of liking "geeky" fare (and either praising it because they really like it or because it's a 'safe' geeky), or if they're afraid of Disney...

Moreover, there's a great disconnect between lavishing praise, then pointing out flaws and then concluding that it's still a five star film.

Which also means it fundamentally FAILS as "Episode VII". It's not a great continuation - although it's not a bad one, just too pointedly similar; remake rather than resonance - since it's essentially a reboot/restarting the saga.

Brack

There's no such thing as a flawless movie. There's no flawless Star Wars movie. It's all subjective. Whether or not said flaws detract from the quality of the overall film determines whether or not something is a "five star" movie. I don't think Fury Road was one of the best movies of this year, or any year for that matter, but many do, and I'm very much okay with that.

ntnon

We've only just started rewatching Star Wars, but even so...

(Q1) "[Star Wars] doesn't start with the massacre of a small village of innocents, doesn't end with the surprise discovery of a galactic hermit, doesn't have a vision sparked by a lightsaber at its exact centerpoint.."

It starts with the massacre of a ship full of rebels, and twenty minutes in follows that with a Jawa killing & the burning of Uncle Owen's homestead. It has (I think) lightsaber/Force training in the middle, discovers a galactic hermit twenty minutes in, and sets up another one by the end.

(Q1) "Did we follow the daring escape of a random Stormtrooper in Darth Vader's legions? Because I don't remember that, either. Nor do I remember a woman in virtual serfdom being the main protagonist and focus of the Force. I do [sarcasm] recall the bartender at the Mos Eisley Cantina being a thousand-year-old mystic who can see into your soul and drives the plot forward in important..."

We follow the daring escape of two droids from Darth Vader, have a man in virtual serfdom as the main protagonist and Force focus. While the Mos Eisley bartender isn't an aged mystic, Ben is. He can use the force to search your soul and drives the plot forward in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY: presents a lightsaber, helps with transport in a Cantina, sits with Han...

(Q2) Irony! "Kylo manages to be both powerful and powerfully weak. Vader was just this guy in a killer helmet, you know?"

i.e. shifts between powerful (force choke) and powerfully weak (gesticulating, defering, failing to interrogate Re..Leia? Almost literally, "KYLO REN is just this guy in a killer helmet..."

(Q3) Rhyming isn't remake, parallel isn't aping. But that's a tomato/tomato eye of the beholder thing.

(Q4) Most films do a herovs journey, but there's shake-up and difference rather than similar-identical plot points and scenarios. And while "The Force Awakens gives you two hero's journeys for the price of one," so do the earlier films. Solo's journey from self-centered, money-grabbing self-preservationist to resistance hero is arguably a better journey than Luke's from frustrated farmboy to resistence hero.

"[Rey and Luke] take different paths on the same journey, right from the fact that one has family while the other has to live in a rusty AT-AT and scrub bits of machinery for food."

Rey also has family (we assume/hear), whereas Luke has no direct family living with him either. Also, Luke's primary job (and hence a reason his Aunt and Uncle don't mind feeding him) seems to be little more than scrubbing machinery..

Brack

Your points don't exactly argue "remake" very strongly.

ntnon

The comments whinging about "clingy die-hard fans" are interesting largely because the "die-hard fans" seem to actually be the biggests fans, defenders and supporters of Force Awakens. It's curious that it seems to be the middle-ground fans who are unhappy, rather than extremes.

ntnon

Short answer: "reboot" not remake, then.

(I wonder if anyone would argue Into Darkness wasn't a remake/reboot of Wrath of Khan despite differences between the two..?)

JasonF

I kind of feel like a lot of these complaints are akin to complaining that Spectre is just like all the other James Bond movies or Harry Potter 7 is just like the first six.

Draven

But here's the thing - that's not a fact. That's simply your opinion. I think it absolutely will have a lasting impact for the franchise and will be held in higher regard than Jedi in the long run. I think it's a GREAT movie and a perfect next step for the franchise. Plus it sets the bar really high for everything that's yet to come in the Star Wars universe, as opposed to the bar that went further and further down after every release post-Empire.

Do you think that you are somehow seeing things that other people aren't? I'm well aware of how similar the story is to A New Hope. And you know what? I don't care. ANH wasn't the first movie to use a "hero's journey" for a template and it won't be the last. There were enough differences (much different villain, much different protagonists, much higher level of technical expertise) that it more than made up for the similarities.

clckworang

This has been my experience as well. My Star Wars fandom has significantly cooled over the years. I have described my anticipation ever since this movie was announced up to seeing it last night as "cautiously optimistic" while my friends who are all die hard fans were going nuts with each trailer and TV spot. After seeing it, I felt a bit let down while they were still over the moon with excitement. I almost felt guilty for not liking it more.

My problems have pretty much all been discussed here. I found the plot way too derivative of the original trilogy, especially the first movie, so much so that I felt like it ruined what should have been some of the surprises or shocking moments.

You just knew the new girl was going to be a mighty Jedi from the start. You knew Kylo was going to be Han or Luke's son; the only suspense was which one it would be. The big death at the end also felt like a foregone conclusion. The question was who it would be, but the answer became more and more obvious. It felt like they shuffled the deck of original characters and redistributed. This is the new Han. She'll be the new Luke and so on. The one thing that felt very borrowed from the prequels was how much of a brat Kylo turned out to be. I really could have done without all those tantrums.

Overall, I did like the film. It was fun, but it fell short of being great because it felt like it was just checking off boxes. I will give it some slack, though. This is the beginning of the story. I can see where it's possible for this setup to go in much different directions than the original trilogy in the next films. If so, that could frame this first one in a different light and bring me to appreciate it more knowing the full story. I guess I will continue to merely be cautiously optimistic about the upcoming films and see what we get.

Mike86

If anything Into Darkness is more of a remake of the original series episode Space Seed. Even then as much as I didn't like that film it still isn't a straight remake either. It has elements of both Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan but has original ideas in it too.

The Force Awakens isn't a reboot or a remake. Taking elements of previous films and incorporating them into a film with a new story isn't the same as rebooting or remaking in my opinion.

Solid Snake

I believe they're calling it a soft reboot.

VII takes a bit more from SW than I'd care but it's differences make all the difference for me. I still think it's pretty weak for kind of taking a bit of the major elements from SW and repurposing it for VII. But... whatever. I await VIII

clckworang

I guess that was part of my problem. They didn't feel like much different villains or heroes. They felt exactly the same to me. I do agree that this was a a big step up for the franchise, especially considering how low it had fallen.

I understand other people feel differently, and I'm all right with that. If anything, I wish that I was able to enjoy it at that same level. I just wasn't able to.

Spiderbite

Damn straight. I wanted to really like this movie and went in with actually low expectations due to the prequels. But I came out disappointed.

I thought they struck the right tone and hopefully the next several movies will go out on their own and not hit you over the head with OT references and plot lines.

I have thought about going and seeing it again since so many people seem to say it gets better with repeat viewings but then again, that could be just Star Wars fanatics and I hate to give this middling movie more money.

dsa_shea

I'd like to see people that don't like Star Wars to quit trying to push other people that do like it towards not liking it. Almost every damn movie made is derivative in some form or fashion. We have pretty much seen it all. Well, at least I have after having watched Thundercrack ,but that is another story. Star Wars is never going to be the be all end all movie series but it is damn fun for me and takes me back to my childhood. At least I was already an adult when Lucas mucked things up the prequels.

Spiderbite

I forgot that having a differing opinion from yours means that people are trying to "push" you and others to not like something.

But I would like to hear that Thundercrack story. I just have heard of that movie and now I feel I need to watch it.

Solid Snake

And that's fine and dandy. Entertainment doesn't always match up to quality. It can but it isn't held to it.

I enjoyed VII... but it's also go some flaws. It's a movie that like every other film has to be held under it's own light regardless of its narrative desires. For the most, there are some that have special requirements at times.

I like SW and love ESB. RotJ has some amazing moments in it but it's also got more downhill turns than anything.

TFA? Aside from taking some broad but very recognized plot points... it's a good film. But it should be criticized for making choices that lessen some of the Flair in it. That's any film though.

fumanstan

Using the terms reboot or remake to describe this movie makes absolutely zero sense.

auto

Most of these arguments make zero sense.

TGM

Star Wars has ALWAYS been a franchise about repeated themes and one in a million coincidences. SW:TFA is no different.

dsa_shea

Well, there are those people out and about that don't just dislike Star Wars but try and influence others to see it in a negative light rather than just being able to enjoy it by what they say or write.

ntnon

IS anyone arguing that..? And the plot of the Potter books differs quite considerably book-to-book.

Maybe it's akin to complaining that the book "Grey" is a lot like "Fifty Shades of Grey"....


......

ntnon

Couldn't agree more. We have two-and-a-half casual fans (who know a tonne about the universe, read books and comics, etc.) and know someone who considers himself a Big Fan. He loved it; we were less enthused. It's a very curious situation, as I draw parallels to comics fans and other series relaunches and see the opposite happening far more frequently!

But it's part seven...! In fairness, it's part one of three as well as 7 of 9, so that is true..