brayzie

In context with everything else that's repeated in TFA it's not stupid at all. Tattoine 3.0, Deathstar 3.0, cute little droid running away from the Empire in order to give detailed Rebel info to Jedi Hermit redux, Alderaan destroyed x three, Darth Vader Jr., etc...

Someone brought up a good point about the use of repeated Deathstars being analogous to the nuclear arms race, that it's more realistic, but if that's the case, why aren't other planets or systems, or the republic for that matter, trying to develop their own Deathstars? It's not really anything like the arms race because only one side keeps making them. And why doesn't any of these planets develop some kind of planetary defense system, or at least discuss plans for creating one.

mcnabb

My whole take on Starkiller Base and DeathStar 2 is that they arent the payoff in TFA or ROTJ like it is in ANH.

When Luke blows up the Deathstar in ANH, that is the payoff of the movie and get full exhilaration from it as a fan.

In ROTJ, the Throne Room Scenes are the payoff of the movie eventually having Darth Vader throwing the Emperor down the shaft.

In TFA, Rey's transformation to embracing being a Jedi which leads her to Luke Skywalker is the payoff.

If ROTJ or TFA used DS2 or Starkiller Base as THE payoff and main point of the movie like ANH then I would call it out as being unoriginal.

Solid Snake

Stormtroopers are kind of a big deal for the visual to this franchise. They're very iconic. I didn't mind them. Big difference is these guys are actually a visible threat cuz the OT guys were kind of paper soldiers. Whatever horrors of their actions isn't ever really experienced in the moment. No. These new guys are kicking ass for their objectives.

That's not a good comparison.

We've had many versions of many of those things. We only got Death Star 3. 3 of out 3 that we've seen. Criticism on it is valid. Add in that Death Star 2 had different way to take it down but the focus on it was different. Our dominant concern is the Throne Room. Death Star 3, copies DS1 a bit but also having to tell this new story. We still have an X-wing guy going through to kind of finish the job.


Add in that narratively... it's a lazy idea to put in... AGAIN. 3 time we get a Deathstar in 7 films. 2nd time made a lot more sense. This time? Not so much considering we only jump in and out of this universe for the films cuz everything else doesn't matter being film being the most dominant narrative force for this franchise.

That doesn't help that we pretty much get the same damn thing 3 times in 7 movies. VII's is just much more larger.

We don't have to add real world credibility to weapons for a action/adventure franchise. Especially considering how little exposure we get to it in the films.

3 times is too much for getting Death Stars. Add in that the Starkiller base isn't all that interesting compared to the previous ones. All our focus is on the characters, which is good, but there isn't really any weight to why our interest is on it. Once the 3 go down, their objective is to take it down and get Rey. But the Starkiller base isn't ever important really. It's just an objective for us to get the characters to together again and to see a confrontation w/ Ren. The previous Death Stars mattered in many forms. Starkiller doesn't really aside from a generic quest to get to the important stuff that didn't really need the base for us to care about anyway.

parrotheads4

I'd love it if someone put a list together stating all of the similarities. There are many.

Solid Snake

It's interesting. The Hero Cycle isn't the issue here so much as that... it repeats so much stuff VERY unique to SW.

jiggawhat

I just read this on one of my friend's facebook wall yesterday.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/19...e-similarities

I'm okay with the similarities. They are trying to give fan service while telling the story to a whole new group of people. Personally, I wish there were more wow scenes or cool shots but I think they'll save that for the next movie. I did love Kylo stopping the laser blast in mid-air but wished he hit someone with it rather than it hitting the wall. It would have given him a more sinister outlook throughout the movie.

ntnon

Best not ask that.....

parrotheads4

Those are great, but there are even more.
Luke enters a cave, and sees the future.
Rey enters the cantina's basement, and sees the future.

Solid Snake

It's a soft reboot.

Meaning that it takes from the source material to repurpose it again for the current audience or purpose w/ some changes for the new.

The naming of the soft reboot doesn't make sense to me cuz reboot is something I know but I get it.

Also taking very specific elements from SW for VII isn't fan service at all. It's just remaking them for the new to a degree. Fan service is that game thing in the Falcon that we see again. Or the little training thing that was in there for Luke. Or talking about the Kessel run. Etc. That's fan service.

VII's narrative isn't fan service. it has a lot of new but it has some way too specific things from the old to repeat again to ever be fan service.

It's safe. Nothing was at risk in showing us those things again. It was done well but it's also not really imaingative. I loved the details around it though. Rey's world, not in the physical sense, is different than Luke's so that's fine and dandy. It's details like that that raises the unimaginative element of putting her on a sand planet and etc etc.

ntnon

Best not say that, either..

ntnon

Most of the actually-critical critiques still rate it 2.5-3.5. Because it's still not bad. (And 3/5 is clearly middling anyway.)

Why needle?

Big Boy Laroux

Of course it uses elements of the original trilogy. Anyone that denies that is blinded by something.

But calling it a remake isn't correct either. The answer is somewhere in the middle. Enjoyable film that borrows from the OT while still setting the stage for new and unique stories and characters.

TomOpus

He never said it still wasn't bad. He said disappointing and boring. Never said anything positive. At least other people have given it some props even if disappointed. Not needling, just trying to understand why someone would give a positive rating yet not find anything positive about a movie.

ntnon

Few are bothered by Stormtroopers - and there are also (toy-selling) variations here: flametrooper and whirly-stick and Captain Phasma...

A bigger concern/plothole would be why (according to the film) they don't have gasmasks built in...

Be fair, though - tanks got rid of 99% of cavalry, and the more mobile ATVs (or whatever they are) have largely seen tanks confined to the past. Body armour has evolved, and more crucially drones are now uswd far more frequently than ground troops. Airstrikes make much more sense than ground troops... most of the time. But when looking for people (village beginning, Kanata), they make eminent sense.

Bigger Deathstar... maybe. But plenty of weapons have also failed and been scrapped rather than rebuilt bigger.

The First Order grew out of the remains of the Empire, and seems to want to be its own thing. So it both makes considerable sense that they'd want to showcase that they're bigger, better and more competent and seems odd that they wouldn't want to make a break with the past and do something different. Maybe just not make it spherical..?

ntnon

It's also, arguably, less of an immediate or relevant threat. In Star Wars the Death Star destroys Leia's "home" planet, and is pointedly hunting for wherever the Rebels' base is. In Force Awakens it destroys the seat of government... but it seems more wishy-washy because we sort-of know (it's unclear, but you can infer) that Leia and the Resistance don't see eye-to-eye with them. So it doesn't matter as much. And it really doesn't matter at all to Rey, Finn or Han - our identifiable heroes.

So although it's big and scary, it ian't really an imminent threat to our heroes, as it was in Star Wars.

ntnon

Anyone attempting to do more than already mentioned would a) draw ire and name-calling and b) invariably draw at least one parallel that overreaches, which would bring dismissal and ridicule..

B5Erik

I just saw this for a third time and I've enjoyed it more each time.

This is definitely the 3rd best Star Wars movie and I can't wait to get it on blu ray. Harrison Ford actually put some effort in to this performance (when some people thought he'd just mail it in), and Daisey Ridley is outstanding as Rey. This time out they introduced a new character that I actually like more than most of the original characters.

Carrying over some elements from the original Star Wars? So what? It makes sense - the First Order would use what they have to work with (stormtroopers, Imperial ships, etc), and would use known technologies and just try to make them bigger and better. They may want to come up with new stuff of their own, but when the existing ships and technologies are still effective (and the Starkiller was definitely effective) why scap them? You wouldn't.

This is the best return/sequel since Rocky Balboa. And like Creed, I expect Star Wars VIII to be really good as well and take the story to the next level.

parrotheads4

I loved the movie. Finding all of the similarities only continues the fun for me.

Trevor

Isn't 3/5 exactly average, and what all of us should rate most of the film's we watch?

Michael Corvin

Who cares if it's a reboot, remake, reimagining or something totally original? Who the fuck cares? Was it entertaining? That's all that matters.

And at debating with someone who has apparently reviewed the movie without even seeing it. I thought I'd seen in all on this forum by now. Guess I was wrong.

zero

You weren't here for the famed Episode II "the war has begun"/"the boy has begun" thread were you?

HN

The one with the plans, that puts it in the droid, is tortured for the info -- is also rescued by someone in a storm trooper suit

Mabuse

The Death Star 3 does serve one important purpose. It wipes the slate clean by destroying the whole government system. Now it's just the resistance and the first order. No future sequel will contain any senate debates or other boring shit.

ntnon

That's certainly what I thought - middling: neither great nor awful. I would even argue half-heartedly that despite the numbers, 3 is usually given by some/many to imply just mildly above average...

Pizza

I gave it an average rating so I wouldn't call it positive. For me, that's a disappointment for a Star Wars movie. I think you're nitpicking on me because we have two different opinions. To be honest, I could rate it lower and be fine. I almost gave it a 2 1/2. Special effects were great and I like the cast except for junior. I never need to see the movie again.

As for the storm troopers, I looked at the empire army like the nazi army. I thought in Return of the Jedi the good guys won the war, not a battle, and took out the emperor. So if this is a new threat I would expect different gear and attire. But maybe it's not a new threat. It was just my reaction and wasn't a make/break deal.