Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
09-01-19, 10:52 PM
#1551
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
So there’s nowhere the new film can go that doesn’t touch on the previous two films? I’m not sure that’s going to be case. TLJ subverted some expectations, but there’s a lot of issues and plot devices from the last two films that appear to still be in play. I mean there’s the Knights of Ren supposedly, the whole balanced Force thing, Rey, Kylo, a rebellion that needs building, lots of things that I’m sure will be addressed. Just because it’s not blatantly obvious what’s going to happen like we had set up with the prequel trilogy does mean TLJ left us with nothing.
I mean the Knights of Ren to this point have been nothing more than name dropped characters we know pretty much nothing about. The balanced Force thing and Rey/Kylo is kind of meh at this point. The more interesting turn to have taken there would have been after they teamed up in Snoke’s throne room to keep them paired together. Instead the next sequence they’re at odds again (and it doesn’t seem like that’s changed in Episode IX). A rebellion that needs building isn’t really something that ties up the trilogy and the saga, especially if you’re doing it at the tail end.
What makes some sense (though I’m not the biggest fan of the idea) is Kylo’s redemption. Problem there is that it feels like another retread. The only idea I’ve seen thrown around that I like quite a bit is that of Rey being a clone.
09-01-19, 11:29 PM
#1552
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I think you could've said the same after ESB, before ROTJ came out. ESB threw a lot of curveballs. The Rebels are chased out of their base by an Empire that seems to be thriving, instead of mortally wounded. Luke failed in the test in the cave, didn't complete his training, and failed to defeat Vader. Han's frozen in carbonite and taken away. Obi-Wan and Yoda mention "another," meaning Luke isn't their only hope. Vader, the main villain up to this point, is revealed as Luke's father, which also means Obi-Wan lied to Luke. I don't think, with all those balls in the air, people necessarily thought there was as "clear cut" way to tie that all together in a satisfying way.
09-01-19, 11:41 PM
#1553
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
All great points.
and Mike, even if you don’t care about any of those plot points I mentioned, the fact that this trilogy isn’t complete yet you are managing to criticize it like it is just doesn’t make sense.
and Mike, even if you don’t care about any of those plot points I mentioned, the fact that this trilogy isn’t complete yet you are managing to criticize it like it is just doesn’t make sense.
09-01-19, 11:48 PM
#1554
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I’m as hardcore a Star Wars fan as anyone here and I love the direction of the new trilogy (and Solo and Rogue One too). The idea that all hardcore fans want something different than what we are getting is simply not true.
09-01-19, 11:48 PM
#1555
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I think you could've said the same after ESB, before ROTJ came out. ESB threw a lot of curveballs. The Rebels are chased out of their base by an Empire that seems to be thriving, instead of mortally wounded. Luke failed in the test in the cave, didn't complete his training, and failed to defeat Vader. Han's frozen in carbonite and taken away. Obi-Wan and Yoda mention "another," meaning Luke isn't their only hope. Vader, the main villain up to this point, is revealed as Luke's father, which also means Obi-Wan lied to Luke. I don't think, with all those balls in the air, people necessarily thought there was as "clear cut" way to tie that all together in a satisfying way.
09-01-19, 11:52 PM
#1556
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Hey if I’m wrong and the film is good I’ll admit it when it happens. I just don’t think there’s enough to invest into making me care that much about the finale of this trilogy, which is also the conclusion to the entire saga at this point. I’d love to be proven wrong but I’m highly skeptical that I will be.
09-02-19, 12:28 AM
#1557
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Hey if I’m wrong and the film is good I’ll admit it when it happens. I just don’t think there’s enough to invest into making me care that much about the finale of this trilogy, which is also the conclusion to the entire saga at this point. I’d love to be proven wrong but I’m highly skeptical that I will be.
09-02-19, 01:06 AM
#1558
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
As far as the prequels are concerned, I don't find them to be great movies. Never really have and still don't necessarily. I do find the story they were trying to tell interesting but I think the films could have told the story a lot better. I've come to appreciate certain aspects of them more than I used to though.
09-02-19, 08:18 AM
#1559
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
That reddit post was long. I only read some of it.
It says:
It's reddit so take it with a grain of salt.
It says:
Spoiler:
It's reddit so take it with a grain of salt.
09-02-19, 09:20 AM
#1560
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
I think you could've said the same after ESB, before ROTJ came out. ESB threw a lot of curveballs. The Rebels are chased out of their base by an Empire that seems to be thriving, instead of mortally wounded. Luke failed in the test in the cave, didn't complete his training, and failed to defeat Vader. Han's frozen in carbonite and taken away. Obi-Wan and Yoda mention "another," meaning Luke isn't their only hope. Vader, the main villain up to this point, is revealed as Luke's father, which also means Obi-Wan lied to Luke. I don't think, with all those balls in the air, people necessarily thought there was as "clear cut" way to tie that all together in a satisfying way.
09-02-19, 09:50 AM
#1561
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Hilarious that the original trilogy is immune because you could just “see where the story was going,” but now you can’t. 
How convenient.
How convenient.
09-02-19, 10:10 AM
#1562
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
It's essentially called 'Ignorant is bliss,' and that is how movies were viewed back then. Now we consume everything about these movies beforehand, and sadly it is a detriment to the viewer (because we overanalyze the death before one frame hits the theater. And the studios analyze how the people will react as they are writing and filming the movie.) Back in 1976, I don't think George Lucas even thought about how fans would react to this or that because there was no context yet for the franchise. But by 1999, he clearly had the fanboys in mind and the result is you get Jango Fett as the Clone to appease the Boba Fett fans.
So I wasn't defending the OT, but of course it's the internet and people like you get your panties all wet at every post and throw in your stupid sarcam and emojis.
09-02-19, 10:14 AM
#1563
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Good lord, can you people on the internet actually have a conversation without taking everything so literally. I wasn't defending the OT, I was just saying it was a different time so nobody looked at movie sequels in that way because it was so new. When I saw Superman in 1978, I had no idea they were shooting Part 2 at the same time and thought it was a standalone movie. In today's age of the internet, I would know that they would be shooting Superman 1 and 2 together, so I would sort of go into the movie with a different expecation knowing that a sequel was planned in the arc.
It's essentially called 'Ignorant is bliss,' and that is how movies were viewed back then. Now we consume everything about these movies beforehand, and sadly it is a detriment to the viewer (because we overanalyze the death before one frame hits the theater. And the studios analyze how the people will react as they are writing and filming the movie.) Back in 1976, I don't think George Lucas even thought about how fans would react to this or that because there was no context yet for the franchise. But by 1999, he clearly had the fanboys in mind and the result is you get Jango Fett as the Clone to appease the Boba Fett fans.
So I wasn't defending the OT, but of course it's the internet and people like you get your panties all wet at every post and throw in your stupid sarcam and emojis.
It's essentially called 'Ignorant is bliss,' and that is how movies were viewed back then. Now we consume everything about these movies beforehand, and sadly it is a detriment to the viewer (because we overanalyze the death before one frame hits the theater. And the studios analyze how the people will react as they are writing and filming the movie.) Back in 1976, I don't think George Lucas even thought about how fans would react to this or that because there was no context yet for the franchise. But by 1999, he clearly had the fanboys in mind and the result is you get Jango Fett as the Clone to appease the Boba Fett fans.
So I wasn't defending the OT, but of course it's the internet and people like you get your panties all wet at every post and throw in your stupid sarcam and emojis.
I might be wrong, but it seemed much more directly pointed at what Mike86 has been expressing.
09-02-19, 10:30 AM
#1564
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Even though I still don’t entirely agree win what he’s saying because I kind of agree with what mcnabb is saying too and think the Original Trilogy was made in a simpler time. Pretty much all the points Jay said while valid I think could be chalked up to the heroes will win in the end, it’s just how the films got to that point. So to that extent I do kind of think you could see where things might go.
The Vader thing was the biggest question as people didn’t necessarily know that he’d be redeemed. You could have had that go another way, but even there it seems somewhat like there were mostly a few directions to go with that reveal. My point wasn’t literally that you knew what would happen back then, but that anyone with foresight could kind of make predictions that wouldn’t be too far off. Which is something that doesn’t apply to the sequels.
09-02-19, 10:33 AM
#1565
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Who you calling “you people?” That’s a nonstarter right there.
Where was the sarcasm in my post? It’s clear as day you think that the original trilogy can’t be held up to as much scrutiny because back in the day, there wasn’t a trilogy, but since it created what some people think a trilogy should be, now whenever something isn’t like that in the Star Wars universe, it’s somehow bad. And I don’t understand how any of the over analyzing and internet chatter can help separate the film from the hype. You’d think a message board forum’s members would be able to separate the two, but you say it like in this age we can’t. Yeah, that’s nonsense.
Where was the sarcasm in my post? It’s clear as day you think that the original trilogy can’t be held up to as much scrutiny because back in the day, there wasn’t a trilogy, but since it created what some people think a trilogy should be, now whenever something isn’t like that in the Star Wars universe, it’s somehow bad. And I don’t understand how any of the over analyzing and internet chatter can help separate the film from the hype. You’d think a message board forum’s members would be able to separate the two, but you say it like in this age we can’t. Yeah, that’s nonsense.
09-02-19, 10:45 AM
#1568
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Nitpick: the phrase is "ignorance is bliss." Ignorance is a noun meaning the lack of knowledge; ignorant is an adjective used to describe someone with a lack of knowledge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance_Is_Bliss
Brack's comment directly quoted "see where the story was going" from mcnabb's post, but I think mcnabb meant something different. mcnabb's full sentence was:
"It was different back then because a 'Trilogy' or 'Saga' wasn't talked about and so you kind of just went with the movies and see where the story was going. "
In mcnabb's statement, I think the "see" is more of a "wait and see where the story was going," as opposed to Mike86, who was talking more about attempting to predict ahead of time where the story went.
I think mcnabb's statement actually supports my argument, that some fans are putting expectations on these films that weren't there for the original trilogy. Some of it may be due to the ST being announced as a planned trilogy, vs the orignal Star Wars, where the first initially stood on its own, and then ESB didn't have more expectations going in than just being a sequel. I do think ROTJ was announced as the "final chapter" at some point prior to its release though, so while people walking out of ESB may not have been thinking about how the story would be wrapped up in one more movie, people walking in to ROTJ likely had that expectation.
There is likely a bit of a shift in culture too, as with the internet we now have this collective hive mind that obsesses over every detail and "mystery" in a film series. TFA introduced a new trilogy, with new details and some deliberately planted mysteries, and almost immediately you had people attempting to predict how the next two episodes would play out and what the answers to the mysteries were. TLJ messed up a lot of those predictions though, which doesn't mean there isn't a way to tie everything up, but that the "clear" path people predicted after seeing TFA (like a "final" confrontation with Snoke being the trilogy capper) isn't possible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance_Is_Bliss
"It was different back then because a 'Trilogy' or 'Saga' wasn't talked about and so you kind of just went with the movies and see where the story was going. "
In mcnabb's statement, I think the "see" is more of a "wait and see where the story was going," as opposed to Mike86, who was talking more about attempting to predict ahead of time where the story went.
I think mcnabb's statement actually supports my argument, that some fans are putting expectations on these films that weren't there for the original trilogy. Some of it may be due to the ST being announced as a planned trilogy, vs the orignal Star Wars, where the first initially stood on its own, and then ESB didn't have more expectations going in than just being a sequel. I do think ROTJ was announced as the "final chapter" at some point prior to its release though, so while people walking out of ESB may not have been thinking about how the story would be wrapped up in one more movie, people walking in to ROTJ likely had that expectation.
There is likely a bit of a shift in culture too, as with the internet we now have this collective hive mind that obsesses over every detail and "mystery" in a film series. TFA introduced a new trilogy, with new details and some deliberately planted mysteries, and almost immediately you had people attempting to predict how the next two episodes would play out and what the answers to the mysteries were. TLJ messed up a lot of those predictions though, which doesn't mean there isn't a way to tie everything up, but that the "clear" path people predicted after seeing TFA (like a "final" confrontation with Snoke being the trilogy capper) isn't possible.
09-02-19, 10:59 AM
#1571
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Did the last movie end with both sides nuking each other and then quickly cutting to the end credits? How can you say there’s been no progression?
09-02-19, 11:16 AM
#1572
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
The Resistance and First Order being at odds is the barest of minimum progression in a film that’s part of a franchise called Star Wars (emphasis on Wars)..
09-02-19, 11:24 AM
#1573
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
Care to elaborate? The Rebellion and the Empire being at odds was all the OT was about. I guess we’re just glossing over everything else.
09-02-19, 11:28 AM
#1574
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)
While the war element is there it’s always kind of been more of the backdrop to the larger story, which to me in the Original Trilogy was more the journey of Luke from simple farm boy to Jedi Knight and the eventual redemption of Vader/Anakin (and there’s no need to circle back to whether people thought that or not when we just discussed it).