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Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

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Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Old 02-28-18, 12:41 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
See, I think JJ would have not retreaded ESB if he had directed either, as I think TFA was a safe movie to get back the old fans who were disheartened by the PT. (I believe that is why KK cut ties with Lucas because his outline was probably more daring, and they wanted something more safe). As you can see that Disney was willing to take a few more risks since they figured the fanbase was on board, so JJ or RJ would have had more freedom to do what they wanted. I was talking more in directing style, as JJ just appeals to a more broad base of people. RJ, Tim Burton, David Fincher, and David Lynch all have unique styles as director that may not resonate with a mass audience, but have a huge cult following with their films. Alien 3 is the same way as I have friends who love the movie and friends who absolutely disdain, where James Cameron appeals to a more broad fanbase and Aliens is much less divisive.



That's a legit point but they could have put some different spin on it, as it is literally copied from the OT. My one beef with TFA was why did they have a Resistance when they ran the Government? The Government was not wiped out by the First Order until the end of TFA, so what was the point of the Resistance and Leia? It made sense in ANH because the Empire ruled the Government, the Rebellion were fighting Tyranny, but wouldn't the First Order really be the Resistance in the ST? I don't know, but my head is spinning!
Your point about why the Resistance even exists as opposed to just having it be First Order vs New Republic is why I think JJ would have just copied ESB if he continued. He was determined to recreate the dynamics of the OT, even if they didn’t actually make narrative sense. There is no reason why the entire New Republic fleet wouldn’t be fighting against the First Order.
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Old 02-28-18, 01:17 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Supposedly the point of The Resistance is that the official government didn’t want to be in open warfare with the First Order so they fed them money and supplies under the table, kinda has some modern parallels, eh?
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Old 02-28-18, 01:39 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
So you guys are saying you’d rather have had an episode VIII that was a complete retread of the Empire Strikes Back? TFA was A New Hope remade with new actors. If JJ had continued on as the writer and director for TLJ, I’m sure it would have been more of the same. Johnson actually told a different story, thank goodness.
Evacuate the rebel base. Neophyte Jedi seeks out cranky old Jedi master for training. A shady character who they think will help them betrays them to the Empire. AT-ATs. Salt Hoth. At least Rian threw the Emperor's throne room scene from ROTJ in there so it wasn't a complete retread of Empire Strikes Back.

As for Josh’s argument that resetting the conflicts undoes the PT/OT, does the surge of fascism happening right now invalidate WWII? Sometimes things recur in historyand that doesn’t mean a previous battle for freedom wasn’t worth having.
Star Wars is a story, not real life. I would hope that, going forward, it isn't just going to be a perpetual conflict between an evil galactic empire and a ragtag rebellion. Dunno... maybe that's all people want out of Star Wars.
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Old 02-28-18, 02:52 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

That "Empire" had like seven fucking ships and their main battle station (including probably every penny they had as well as soldiers and ships) was recently blown to hell. THAT is the big bad that an entire galaxy can't fend off. These movies are like a microcosm of two rock throwing countries from the Middle Ages in comparison to the OT.
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Old 02-28-18, 03:06 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Rob V View Post
That "Empire" had like seven fucking ships...
They don't say it explicitly in the movie, but there's a lot of implication that The First Order has more ships.

For one, Poe says of the Dreadnaught "those things are fleet killers," plural, suggesting that The First Order has more than one of them.

For another, Snoke's ship was not part of the initial battle, and only shows up after the hyperspace jump. This means that there was at least one FO ship not part of the initial battle, and they may have more.
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Old 02-28-18, 06:24 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

They don’t need their whole fleet to take down a few remaining capital ships.
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Old 02-28-18, 08:13 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
So you guys are saying you’d rather have had an episode VIII that was a complete retread of the Empire Strikes Back? TFA was A New Hope remade with new actors. If JJ had continued on as the writer and director for TLJ, I’m sure it would have been more of the same. Johnson actually told a different story, thank goodness.

As for Josh’s argument that resetting the conflicts undoes the PT/OT, does the surge of fascism happening right now invalidate WWII? Sometimes things recur in historyand that doesn’t mean a previous battle for freedom wasn’t worth having.
I'm with Supermallet. Another government/rebellion story does not necessarily bother me. In some countries these things are a reality. As Supermallet says, history does repeat itself.

However (there's always a however) ... it doesn't repeat itself the way the SW universe has presented this. Hitler's great-grandson isn't behind the rise of fascism today and neither Churchill nor Truman's grand-daughter is keeping him in check. This is the micro/macro debate we were talking about.

My other problem is in the execution. We are just dropped into this echo of the past. As others have said in this thread, the PT does have a story buried in it that explains the universe. Unfortunately taxation, political maneuvering, and blockades of trade routes don't make for exciting sci-fi movies. At least it does give us the "why".

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
Supposedly the point of The Resistance is that the official government didn’t want to be in open warfare with the First Order so they fed them money and supplies under the table, kinda has some modern parallels, eh?
I could accept this and it would make sense, but this is one of the biggest failings of too many modern movies/TV shows. I could accept this IF the movie conveyed this message. When you have to go on the after-show, talk show circuit, or social media to explain things to me, that means you failed as a storyteller.
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Old 02-28-18, 09:16 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
I could accept this and it would make sense, but this is one of the biggest failings of too many modern movies/TV shows. I could accept this IF the movie conveyed this message. When you have to go on the after-show, talk show circuit, or social media to explain things to me, that means you failed as a storyteller.
I think some of the deleted scenes from TFA explain this, with Leia sending an aide to the capital. However, JJ Abrams cut it, so we only ever see the aide right before the planet blows up.

This is the best I could find of the clip online:
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Old 02-28-18, 10:30 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

OK, let me add another piece to my statement ... general audiences don't care about plot point minutiae to the extent that you can cut those points out.

I guess I am a bit finicky on that -- I shouldn't have to seek out extra resources to make sense out of it. Then again, I just got done applauding the socio-political plots of the PT.
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Old 02-28-18, 10:56 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
OK, let me add another piece to my statement ... general audiences don't care about plot point minutiae to the extent that you can cut those points out...
Well, maybe this particular plot point can't be cut out. Maybe JJ Abrams made a mistake cutting it, since it left something essential to understand about the Resistance vs First Order conflict out of the film, especially with the films following it reliant on that plot point.
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Old 03-01-18, 06:49 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

So if any of you watch Star Wars Rebels, you know that they've introduced
Spoiler:
time travel
into the mix.
Spoiler:
We all know how much JJ loves time travel plots
. I wonder if this will carry into Ep IX and play a part with Luke?
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Old 03-01-18, 07:57 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Spoiler:
This doesn’t strike me as the kind of universe that would benefit from time travel mucking up the works. So much of the main plotting — especially in the OT — relies on thin contrivances that would fall apart with a little timeline intervention.


Then again ...

Spoiler:
If they wanted to get crazy, they could go for the whole Hitler thought exercise: travel back in time and take out Anakin Skywalker just as he turns into the whiny teen that ruins Darth Vader. Reboot the whole franchise that way.
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Old 03-01-18, 08:19 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
Supposedly the point of The Resistance is that the official government didn’t want to be in open warfare with the First Order so they fed them money and supplies under the table, kinda has some modern parallels, eh?
Ok, I do remember hearing about that before, so that makes sense.
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Old 03-01-18, 10:09 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Rob V View Post
So if any of you watch Star Wars Rebels, you know that they've introduced
Spoiler:
time travel
into the mix.
Spoiler:
We all know how much JJ loves time travel plots
. I wonder if this will carry into Ep IX and play a part with Luke?
Aeriously? Glad I stopped watching then.
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Old 03-01-18, 10:24 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Aeriously? Glad I stopped watching then.
It's not really anything new. It's expanding on something said by Yoda is TESB.

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Old 03-01-18, 11:16 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Rob V View Post
So if any of you watch Star Wars Rebels, you know that they've introduced
Spoiler:
time travel
into the mix.
Spoiler:
We all know how much JJ loves time travel plots
. I wonder if this will carry into Ep IX and play a part with Luke?

They've (thankfully) brought over so little from these tv shows, I highly doubt they're going to start with this.
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Old 03-01-18, 11:26 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
There isn't a frame of film in the PT that makes the OT better. The OT stands on its own. Always has, always will.
I completely agree with the above. In fact, I think the PT actually ruined parts of the OT for me. Some of the best parts about Star Wars were the mysteries. I didn't need all the backstory on EVERY SINGLE THING in the OT. Palpatine, Boba Fett, The Force, etc. They didn't need explanations. They were cool because we didn't know where they came from and why there are major/minor parts of the movies.

I just can't look back on the PT and find anything worthwhile. The story is boring and slow, the characters are uninteresting (McGregor and Neeson do their best), and the chemistry between two of the most important characters (Padme & Anakin) is just awful. I'll agree that the story was very original, but it wasn't entertaining at all in my opinion.

I'm a fan of the ST so far. I think the ST does borrow from the OT a bit much, but at least the characters are interesting and I truly care what happens to them. When Padme died in ROTS, it had zero impact on me. If the PT story and its characters were decent, I should have been devastated when this happened.

I'm not sure what will happen next or where they can go with episode IX, but I"m excited to find out.
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Old 03-01-18, 11:44 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by lopper View Post
They've (thankfully) brought over so little from these tv shows, I highly doubt they're going to start with this.
True... BUT, the TV show is the timeline leading up to Rogue One. They discuss the resources for multiple projects (including the Death Star) and other unknown projects that could become the subjects of future films, perhaps (remember how R1 mentioned tracking via hyper-space and that was the storyline in TLJ). They also had the ship and a robot in R1... not hypothesizing that we'll see any elements of SWR going forward, but it opens the door.
Also, with how many books out/coming out, it's almost impossible to keep up with cannon.
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Old 03-01-18, 11:55 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by nmr1723 View Post

I just can't look back on the PT and find anything worthwhile. The story is boring and slow, the characters are uninteresting (McGregor and Neeson do their best), and the chemistry between two of the most important characters (Padme & Anakin) is just awful. I'll agree that the story was very original, but it wasn't entertaining at all in my opinion.

.
What's interesting is I enjoy the Marco Story of the PT (The Republic, The Jedi Order, The Rise of Palpatine, etc), but agree with you that the characters (Micro Story) didn't resonate with me one bit.

The opposite has happened with the ST as I love the new characters (Micro Story) (The one thing I liked from TLJ was the Kylo/Rey stuff), but I think the macro story is just unoriginal and taking too many things from the OT (Especially if they go for the Kylo Ren redemption angle in Episode 9).
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Old 03-01-18, 01:58 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb View Post
What's interesting is I enjoy the Marco Story of the PT (The Republic, The Jedi Order, The Rise of Palpatine, etc), but agree with you that the characters (Micro Story) didn't resonate with me one bit.

The opposite has happened with the ST as I love the new characters (Micro Story) (The one thing I liked from TLJ was the Kylo/Rey stuff), but I think the macro story is just unoriginal and taking too many things from the OT (Especially if they go for the Kylo Ren redemption angle in Episode 9).
I SERIOUSLY doubt that.
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Old 03-01-18, 02:11 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Rob V View Post
True... BUT, the TV show is the timeline leading up to Rogue One.
Ok, but neither have had much, if anything, to do with the new numbered films. If they absolutely have to do it, the side stories (R1, Solo, Kenobi) are the perfect place to tie the movie and tv stuff together. I just don't see how they can realistically justify integrating a story element like time travel, that has only been established on a cable network cartoon series, into an episode movie.

They discuss the resources for multiple projects (including the Death Star) and other unknown projects that could become the subjects of future films, perhaps (remember how R1 mentioned tracking via hyper-space and that was the storyline in TLJ). They also had the ship and a robot in R1...
I'd honestly bet that's the extent we'll ever see the current expanded universe material in any of the films. Barely more than easter eggs.
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Old 03-01-18, 02:13 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

At this rate, I hope Kylo Ren wipes out the rest of the original trilogy characters.
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Old 03-01-18, 04:26 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

there's no way they will add a concept as big as that from a cartoon tv show into Episode 9.
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Old 03-01-18, 06:22 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

One thing the PT wipes the floor with the ST on - music. Some fantastic scoring in the PT. ST music is largely forgettable IMO.
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Old 03-01-18, 11:52 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
One thing the PT wipes the floor with the ST on - music. Some fantastic scoring in the PT. ST music is largely forgettable IMO.
Eh. You've had almost 20 years with the PT music and less than 5 with the ST so not a fair comparison, but to each their own. Only good music I can remember from PT really is Duel of the Fates and Across the Stars. Battle of the Heroes sounded incredibly forced. Whereas Rey's theme, the Resistance, Scherzo for X-Wings even Rose's themes are already some of my favorites.
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