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Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

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Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Old 02-27-18, 12:02 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by fumanstan
It was the dramatic line that made me think the same
I was going to quote that originally too. I'm shocked he didn't photoshop HATER into his new avatar.
Old 02-27-18, 12:06 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by dex14
I was going to quote that originally too. I'm shocked he didn't photoshop HATER into his new avatar.
okay I am dramatic with DC too. I do think this film is a different situation though as it’s not necessarily poorly made it’s just got a divisive audience because of some story decisions that didn’t flow with what fans expected/wanted. With DC I'd argue that the films are not only divisive but they haven’t been all that well made in terms of directing, acting of some of the stars, story, etc. If they at least managed to be good in some respects I wouldn’t give them nearly the amount of shit that I do despite not liking most of the directions they’ve taken with how they’ve grown their universe.

Last edited by Mike86; 02-27-18 at 12:14 PM.
Old 02-27-18, 12:20 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb
Oh come on, pretty much every Fanbase is like this for Popular Franchises. I don't know if you remember those Matrix Sequels, as Reloaded and Revolutions were despised by the public in 2003. I don't know if you remember the Batman movies from 1989-97, or 2005-2012, as fans are all over the place with those movies. Some love the Burton movies, some hate them, some love Schumacher's Batman Forever, some hate it cause it's cheesy and not as dark, although everyone hated Batman and Robin. The same goes for Nolan's trilogy as The Dark Knight Rises was buried by the fans. If you want to go back to the 80's, Superman 3 and 4 were hated by most fans back then as the franchise didn't make a movie for another 20 years. Heck, even Robert Zemeckis admitted that he would never do another sequel after Back to the Future Trilogy, "I would never do another sequel because every fan has their own story in their head and you can never please everyone."

This is just a symptom of Franchise Sequels as many will love them and many will hate them, and Star Wars is no different. But for some reason, SW fans get called out on it for not liking a movie or movies. Go google what fans thought of those Matrix Sequels as that is the most hated I have ever seen towards a set of movies.
So ... does that mean that criticisms toward sequels in franchises are irrelevant, and should be disregarded? Does it have to do with fans overreacting and/or acting on biases?
Old 02-27-18, 01:06 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by fumanstan
It was the dramatic line that made me think the same
In fairness I was referring more to some people saying the prequels are suddenly good films because they don’t like one of the sequels. That’s a pretty dramatic overstatement especially considering that most people have ragged on those films for years. I don’t think most rational people would debate that the prequels are honestly better than the sequels or really just The Last Jedi.
Old 02-27-18, 01:47 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Mike86
In fairness I was referring more to some people saying the prequels are suddenly good films because they don’t like one of the sequels. That’s a pretty dramatic overstatement especially considering that most people have ragged on those films for years. I don’t think most rational people would debate that the prequels are honestly better than the sequels or really just The Last Jedi.
I can only give you my take, but I have come to appreciate the PT story and narrative Lucas written more now that I see how much the ST looks tacked on. Yes, the PT has it's problems with execution, characters like Jar Jar, and the overuse of CGI, but the basic story (micro and macro) blows away the ST story.

I give credit to Lucas for telling a story that jives with the OT in a way that it also links up with it for one big story of 1-6. The ST story/narrative has none of that (the jury is out if Episode 9 can accomplish that). The ST is just a retread story of Resistance vs First Order with a Skywalker who goes bad, and a Protagonist who is the next 'chosen one.' There is nothing in this Trilogy that links up to the 1-6 story that really makes it better.

The PT story of the rise of Palpatine, The Jedi Order, The Crumbling of the Republic, The Clone Wars and the eventual rise of the Empire all makes the OT better. The OT was this micro story told through Han, Luke and Leia, and we never got to see this bigger world. The PT brings out that macro world, and I think it gives the OT more depth. The ST has none of that, as it hasn't really done anything to make the OT/PT better. They have pretty much repeated everything through different characters and RJ switched a few things up to throw the fans off.

Again, I won't say the PT movies is better made then the ST, because I both think they have their problems. But I will say that the PT story is MUCH better and more interesting and does jive with the OT. The point of the PT was tell the story of how Darth Vader came to be along with how the republic turned into the Empire. I have no idea what the point of the ST is in terms of jiving with the OT/PT story?
Old 02-27-18, 02:08 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Mike86
In fairness I was referring more to some people saying the prequels are suddenly good films because they don’t like one of the sequels. That’s a pretty dramatic overstatement especially considering that most people have ragged on those films for years. I don’t think most rational people would debate that the prequels are honestly better than the sequels or really just The Last Jedi.
Who said the PT are good films? Most have said the ST are average or not good.
Old 02-27-18, 02:18 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Most enjoy both the prequels and the sequels. It is a very small, very vocal minority that have issues with them.
Old 02-27-18, 02:26 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Maybe it's a generational thing, but I can't stomach the prequels at all now. I grew up in the time of the OT and I sort of liked some things of the PT during their initial release. For me, though, they just don't hold up. There's maybe one acceptable movie hiding in those 6+ hours. I really enjoyed both FA and TLJ, even though I have some issues with both.
Old 02-27-18, 02:28 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xyXscDJSHD0?start=136" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Old 02-27-18, 02:29 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

I mean I suppose it boils down to opinion but the prequels weren’t even that great at just filling in the gaps of what came before the events of the Original Trilogy. Lucas isn’t this creative genius who had it all figured out and the only reason half the things jive are because he forced them to. They’ve got a lot of issues and ways that they don’t fit in with the original films and they’re coming from the original creator. The sequels are what’s been envisioned by outside sources and while some decisions may not have played out exactly how people wanted them to I don’t think the film is necessarily bad.
Old 02-27-18, 05:04 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb
I can only give you my take, but I have come to appreciate the PT story and narrative Lucas written more now that I see how much the ST looks tacked on. Yes, the PT has it's problems with execution, characters like Jar Jar, and the overuse of CGI, but the basic story (micro and macro) blows away the ST story.

I give credit to Lucas for telling a story that jives with the OT in a way that it also links up with it for one big story of 1-6. The ST story/narrative has none of that (the jury is out if Episode 9 can accomplish that). The ST is just a retread story of Resistance vs First Order with a Skywalker who goes bad, and a Protagonist who is the next 'chosen one.' There is nothing in this Trilogy that links up to the 1-6 story that really makes it better.

The PT story of the rise of Palpatine, The Jedi Order, The Crumbling of the Republic, The Clone Wars and the eventual rise of the Empire all makes the OT better. The OT was this micro story told through Han, Luke and Leia, and we never got to see this bigger world. The PT brings out that macro world, and I think it gives the OT more depth. The ST has none of that, as it hasn't really done anything to make the OT/PT better. They have pretty much repeated everything through different characters and RJ switched a few things up to throw the fans off.

Again, I won't say the PT movies is better made then the ST, because I both think they have their problems. But I will say that the PT story is MUCH better and more interesting and does jive with the OT. The point of the PT was tell the story of how Darth Vader came to be along with how the republic turned into the Empire. I have no idea what the point of the ST is in terms of jiving with the OT/PT story?
Thank you for saving me some typing...
Old 02-27-18, 07:33 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb
I can only give you my take, but I have come to appreciate the PT story and narrative Lucas written more now that I see how much the ST looks tacked on. Yes, the PT has it's problems with execution, characters like Jar Jar, and the overuse of CGI, but the basic story (micro and macro) blows away the ST story.

I give credit to Lucas for telling a story that jives with the OT in a way that it also links up with it for one big story of 1-6. The ST story/narrative has none of that (the jury is out if Episode 9 can accomplish that). The ST is just a retread story of Resistance vs First Order with a Skywalker who goes bad, and a Protagonist who is the next 'chosen one.' There is nothing in this Trilogy that links up to the 1-6 story that really makes it better.

The PT story of the rise of Palpatine, The Jedi Order, The Crumbling of the Republic, The Clone Wars and the eventual rise of the Empire all makes the OT better. The OT was this micro story told through Han, Luke and Leia, and we never got to see this bigger world. The PT brings out that macro world, and I think it gives the OT more depth. The ST has none of that, as it hasn't really done anything to make the OT/PT better. They have pretty much repeated everything through different characters and RJ switched a few things up to throw the fans off.

Again, I won't say the PT movies is better made then the ST, because I both think they have their problems. But I will say that the PT story is MUCH better and more interesting and does jive with the OT. The point of the PT was tell the story of how Darth Vader came to be along with how the republic turned into the Empire. I have no idea what the point of the ST is in terms of jiving with the OT/PT story?

Yes, absolutely. It really makes me sad that the PT wasn't executed as well as they should have been with regards to being films, but the underlying story has a lot going for it.

I suppose it also helps that I follow a lot of prequel defender blogs on tumblr, and they're very good at finding all the parallels, both scenes and storybeats within the PT itself and in comparison to the OT. In fact, one of the most interesting takes I read just recently is that the PT has the feel of Bollywood films minus the musical dance numbers.

I'm 43 years old (with The Revivalist's "Wish I Knew You When You Were Young" playing on Youtube...) and ever since 1983, I wanted to see sequels. I never gave a moment's thought to the story of Anakin's fall. The sparse mentions in the novelizations of the OT movies were sufficient for me. All I wanted were more stories with Han, Luke and Leia. Of course I devoured the comics and novels and video games (and I will defend Dark Empire to my dying day).
But now, having seen the Clone Wars series, and having had some time for the PT to settle into my memories, I grow to love the story of Anakin, Padme, Qui Gon and of course McGregor's amazing turn as young Obi Wan and I almost wish we could have gotten more films with those young characters.

To get to the point: what is the point? Of the sequels? Rey's journey? Should have done more in TFA. Keep the ANH clone plot as the background, but have her found earlier and start her training with Luke. Make her parentage matter. Have her discover by the end of TFA what her destiny will be, and have the next two films be the challenges of facing that destiny.

Now? We have two films, the first being an enjoyable romp that set up a few things, but not much. The second being such a bizarre shift, I'm still not sure what I think of it since seeing it on opening night (and that's the only time I've managed to see it. My wife did want to see it again, but things kept coming up and it never happened. Mind you, we saw TPM a dozen times in the theater.

IX better blow us away. Throw in everything including the kitchen sink, the Knights of Ren, wookies pulling the arms off of First Order troopers. A lost video message from Padme (Portman would likely do it considering her recent SNL sketch).

It's just that of the three new SW films we've gotten, the best one was a non-Skywalker film (seriously, I've come to consider it a top 3 film, it just edges out ROTJ). Will Solo turn out to be another winner because it's not shoehorned into the Skywalker saga?
Old 02-27-18, 09:20 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb
The PT story of the rise of Palpatine, The Jedi Order, The Crumbling of the Republic, The Clone Wars and the eventual rise of the Empire all makes the OT better.
There isn't a frame of film in the PT that makes the OT better. The OT stands on its own. Always has, always will. If anything, the PT makes the OT better by being so bad.

I will grant you the PT opens up the universe, but what good is that if everything in that universe blows? The rise of Palpatine was anti-climactic. Oooh, Jar-Jar voted him to power. Sheer genius! The Jedi Order, also anti-climactic. So they were all basically a bunch of uptight pacifists that didn't want to do shit. Exciting. And by extention the fall of the Republic was a byproduct of those to lazily told story beats. That leaves the Clone Wars (which was short changed) and the rise of the Empire, which is pretty much irrelevant in the OT. The Empire was ruling the galaxy by force. That's all the info that's needed. So for all the potential ideas, every one of them was squandered, and that's ignoring the terrible acting and dialog, overreliance on bad CG.

There are a few bright spots, but those few things that worked can't save that mess.

The biggest problem? They just aren't fun.

Originally Posted by buldrhm
Most enjoy both the prequels and the sequels. It is a very small, very vocal minority that have issues with them.
Citation needed.

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy
Maybe it's a generational thing, but I can't stomach the prequels at all now. I grew up in the time of the OT and I sort of liked some things of the PT during their initial release. For me, though, they just don't hold up. There's maybe one acceptable movie hiding in those 6+ hours. I really enjoyed both FA and TLJ, even though I have some issues with both.


Force Awakens and The Last Jedi may have sacrificed the larger universe, but they brought back the fun and sense of adventure, not to mention some likable characters. What good is a bigger world (like the Matrix* sequels since that was previously mentioned) if that world sucks?

*actually a pretty good comparison. The Matrix was the micro focused on Neo, Trinity and Morpheus' story. Reloaded and Revolutions was the macro opening up the world and larger universe. None of what the macro gave us made the original Matrix better.
Old 02-27-18, 09:51 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by milo bloom
It's just that of the three new SW films we've gotten, the best one was a non-Skywalker film (seriously, I've come to consider it a top 3 film, it just edges out ROTJ). Will Solo turn out to be another winner because it's not shoehorned into the Skywalker saga?
I’m just going to sit here with a smug grin.
Old 02-27-18, 09:54 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

A good deal of the stories prior to the OT focus on the clone wars...and Lucasfilm milked that shit until it produced dust!

The pre-OT stories that weren’t the clone wars were simply boring as shit! Senate hearings, trade embargos, Jedi as stodgy monks. I mean what the everloving fuck?! Oh, and on top of that dull, stuffy bullshit Lucas adds in poop and fart jokes...cause these movies are for the kids...
Old 02-27-18, 09:55 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Force Awakens and The Last Jedi may have sacrificed the larger universe, but they brought back the fun and sense of adventure, not to mention some likable characters. What good is a bigger world (like the Matrix* sequels since that was previously mentioned) if that world sucks?

*actually a pretty good comparison. The Matrix was the micro focused on Neo, Trinity and Morpheus' story. Reloaded and Revolutions was the macro opening up the world and larger universe. None of what the macro gave us made the original Matrix better.
You are on the right track, but you are wrong. The Matrix sequels and these Star Wars films do NOT open up the macro-universe. They take the micro-focused stories (and characters) and set them into a new setting. There is a rich macro-universe around them, but the stories still focus on the same characters.

We can’t see the galactic forest because of the Skywalker family trees.
Old 02-28-18, 12:12 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

I’d argue the Matrix sequels do attempt to go macro. They show how the actions of the main three characters affect the lives of multiple other characters in Zion, how Neo is worshipped like a god, and...uh...dance orgies.

The PT doesn’t do that. It was never intended to do that. The PT was designed to show a man making the wrong choices (often with good motives) to stand in contrast to the OT which shows the man’s son making the right choices under similar circumstances. Luke rises where Anakin once fell and in doing so manages to save Anakin from the prison his bad choices created. The only reason it would be seeen as macro is because those choices have consequences for the rest of the galaxy, but we see very little of that.
Old 02-28-18, 02:29 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

I recently saw I-VII + Rogue One for the first time. Only one I had seen before was "A New Hope" 31 years ago.

My take:
The original trilogy is not as amazing as everyone says.
It's good, even great sometimes, and surely groundbreaking at the time, but "Return of The Jedi" is mostly just bad.

The prequels are not as bad as everyone says.
Yes, "Phantom Menace" is a mostly a Phantom Mess but "Revenge Of The Sith" is among the best IMO.

"Rogue One" kicked ass - not the best SW movie, but might be my favourite right now.

"The Force Awakens" felt very much like more of the same - in a good way.

Looking very much forward to seeing "The Last Jedi" soon.

Lastly, (blasphemy, I know) C-3PO is much worse then Jar Jar Binks. So far that whining piece of shit bucket has tainted 9 movies!
Old 02-28-18, 08:13 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Supermallet
So now people are saying the sequels are on par with the prequels? Makes me wonder why people even bother to see these movies, since nothing will ever satisfy them.
Bitching about genre franchises is nothing new.

Look at Star Trek, X-Files, and Doctor Who.

I think Star Wars strikes a nerve for a couple of reasons.

First, it's (primarily) a film franchise, so we're only getting new installments once a year. With Star Trek, if you get a shitty episode, the next one might be better. Or if there's a series you don't like, such as Voyager, it's easy to ignore it because the Trek series are self contained. Or you can just wait out Doctor Who for the next showrunner. At any rate, with these series, a terrible episode won't derail the entire series because you can just sort of ignore it (Threshold and Kill the Moon).

Star Wars is different because it's a saga of nine films. A bad film, a bad storytelling choice, or poorly handled character can derail the whole thing.

Second, fans of genre franchises invest a lot in the mythology and details of the franchise. Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who, Lost, Harry Potter, Middle Earth, X-Files, A Song of Ice and Fire, MCU, DC Universe, etc., have all built complex mythologies and universes, and the fans of them tend to invest a lot in them, so when someone -- either a freelancer or even the original creator -- starts fucking around the franchise or the audience, it's going to turn off a lot of people.
Old 02-28-18, 08:37 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by milo bloom
To get to the point: what is the point? Of the sequels? Rey's journey? Should have done more in TFA. Keep the ANH clone plot as the background, but have her found earlier and start her training with Luke. Make her parentage matter. Have her discover by the end of TFA what her destiny will be, and have the next two films be the challenges of facing that destiny.

Now? We have two films, the first being an enjoyable romp that set up a few things, but not much. The second being such a bizarre shift, I'm still not sure what I think of it since seeing it on opening night (and that's the only time I've managed to see it. My wife did want to see it again, but things kept coming up and it never happened. Mind you, we saw TPM a dozen times in the theater.
The problem with the ST and TLJ in particular, is that it has no story to tell. Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm seemingly went into the sequel trilogy without any idea what it was going to be about other than seventh, eighth, and ninth Star Wars films.

TFA was a good enough movie, but then TLJ came along and just sort of rebooted the saga back to the same conflicts that were fought in the PT and OT.

When George Lucas said that there wouldn't be a sequel trilogy because there wasn't a story after ROTJ, it was true. The PT, with its "Balance" prophecy, ended all of the story threads with ROTJ.

That prophecy set up the whole saga, and, unfortunately it's not terribly clear, but the meaning of bringing balance to the Force was that the chosen one would destroy the Sith. Vader did that in ROTJ when he sacrificed himself to kill Palpatine. The existence of the Sith meant, to the Jedi, that the Force was imbalanced.

So along comes the TFA and (especially) TLJ, and essentially resets the whole saga back to the OT. The Empire is back. The rebellion is back. The Sith are back. They can call them the First Order, Resistance, and Knights of Ren, but they aren't fooling anybody. So now, every victory, every sacrifice, and every fulfilled prophecy from Eps I through VI, was rendered meaningless. With TLJ, they're right back at the same place they were in ANH.

Disney might as well have done a hard reboot of the franchise instead of the soft one they did in the ST.
Old 02-28-18, 09:43 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb
I can only give you my take, but I have come to appreciate the PT story and narrative Lucas written more now that I see how much the ST looks tacked on. Yes, the PT has it's problems with execution, characters like Jar Jar, and the overuse of CGI, but the basic story (micro and macro) blows away the ST story.

I give credit to Lucas for telling a story that jives with the OT in a way that it also links up with it for one big story of 1-6. The ST story/narrative has none of that (the jury is out if Episode 9 can accomplish that). The ST is just a retread story of Resistance vs First Order with a Skywalker who goes bad, and a Protagonist who is the next 'chosen one.' There is nothing in this Trilogy that links up to the 1-6 story that really makes it better.

The PT story of the rise of Palpatine, The Jedi Order, The Crumbling of the Republic, The Clone Wars and the eventual rise of the Empire all makes the OT better. The OT was this micro story told through Han, Luke and Leia, and we never got to see this bigger world. The PT brings out that macro world, and I think it gives the OT more depth. The ST has none of that, as it hasn't really done anything to make the OT/PT better. They have pretty much repeated everything through different characters and RJ switched a few things up to throw the fans off.

Again, I won't say the PT movies is better made then the ST, because I both think they have their problems. But I will say that the PT story is MUCH better and more interesting and does jive with the OT. The point of the PT was tell the story of how Darth Vader came to be along with how the republic turned into the Empire. I have no idea what the point of the ST is in terms of jiving with the OT/PT story?
Nice post - I agree with this. Though I was never the prequel hater others have been. I saw those in my late 20's so no childhood nostalgia to make me like them more than the ST. And BTW I like TFA just fine. Hell they could have passed the proverbial baton and not had any original cast members make it past TFA and I'd be fine with that. It's just TLJ that is not very good at all IMO, and as I've said before in the TLJ thread, it's not because of Luke dying, Leia Poppins or anything like that. I think it's a poorly made and tone deaf SW movie for the franchise.
Old 02-28-18, 11:16 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by bunkaroo
And BTW I like TFA just fine. Hell they could have passed the proverbial baton and not had any original cast members make it past TFA and I'd be fine with that. It's just TLJ that is not very good at all IMO, and as I've said before in the TLJ thread, it's not because of Luke dying, Leia Poppins or anything like that. I think it's a poorly made and tone deaf SW movie for the franchise.
I liked TFA too, in fact I really liked it because it captured the spirit of the OT again. I do wonder if JJ would have made the whole Trilogy at this point, I think I would have liked TLJ and then would have looked forward to Episode 9.

I think RJ's style is not made for a Franchise Film as it is to divisive. He is no different then a Tim Burton, as I know people that absolutely love his movies and other who absolutely hate his movies. RJ and TLJ seems to be the same and that is why this is such a divisive movie.

JJ appeals to a more broad audience and is probably better suited for a Blockbuster Franchise. Yes, there are people that hate his style, but they are more a niche group as TFA was nowhere as divisive. I still contend that Disney should have given RJ the reigns to do a Standalone movie first as his style is more suited for that. You can take more chances in a standalone because you're not married to the Saga, and make it more of your own things. It's tougher to do with a Saga movie because it has to sit next to the other 8 movies when it is all said and done. TLJ sticks out like a sore thumb.
Old 02-28-18, 11:47 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by mcnabb
I still contend that Disney should have given RJ the reigns to do a Standalone movie first as his style is more suited for that. You can take more chances in a standalone because you're not married to the Saga, and make it more of your own things. It's tougher to do with a Saga movie because it has to sit next to the other 8 movies when it is all said and done. TLJ sticks out like a sore thumb.
Problem is that the Disney execs/LucasFilm people saw TLJ and liked it enough to offer him more work.

And I can't say TLJ will stick out anymore than Clones. It's a space romance novel done very poorly.
Old 02-28-18, 11:52 AM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

So you guys are saying you’d rather have had an episode VIII that was a complete retread of the Empire Strikes Back? TFA was A New Hope remade with new actors. If JJ had continued on as the writer and director for TLJ, I’m sure it would have been more of the same. Johnson actually told a different story, thank goodness.

As for Josh’s argument that resetting the conflicts undoes the PT/OT, does the surge of fascism happening right now invalidate WWII? Sometimes things recur in historyand that doesn’t mean a previous battle for freedom wasn’t worth having.
Old 02-28-18, 12:23 PM
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re: Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (12/20/19, W/D: J.J. Abrams)

Originally Posted by Supermallet
So you guys are saying you’d rather have had an episode VIII that was a complete retread of the Empire Strikes Back? TFA was A New Hope remade with new actors. If JJ had continued on as the writer and director for TLJ, I’m sure it would have been more of the same. Johnson actually told a different story, thank goodness.

.
See, I think JJ would have not retreaded ESB if he had directed either, as I think TFA was a safe movie to get back the old fans who were disheartened by the PT. (I believe that is why KK cut ties with Lucas because his outline was probably more daring, and they wanted something more safe). As you can see that Disney was willing to take a few more risks since they figured the fanbase was on board, so JJ or RJ would have had more freedom to do what they wanted. I was talking more in directing style, as JJ just appeals to a more broad base of people. RJ, Tim Burton, David Fincher, and David Lynch all have unique styles as director that may not resonate with a mass audience, but have a huge cult following with their films. Alien 3 is the same way as I have friends who love the movie and friends who absolutely disdain, where James Cameron appeals to a more broad fanbase and Aliens is much less divisive.

Originally Posted by Supermallet

As for Josh’s argument that resetting the conflicts undoes the PT/OT, does the surge of fascism happening right now invalidate WWII? Sometimes things recur in historyand that doesn’t mean a previous battle for freedom wasn’t worth having.
That's a legit point but they could have put some different spin on it, as it is literally copied from the OT. My one beef with TFA was why did they have a Resistance when they ran the Government? The Government was not wiped out by the First Order until the end of TFA, so what was the point of the Resistance and Leia? It made sense in ANH because the Empire ruled the Government, the Rebellion were fighting Tyranny, but wouldn't the First Order really be the Resistance in the ST? I don't know, but my head is spinning!

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