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Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

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Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Old 03-26-17, 06:24 PM
  #201  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
The commissars of political correctness on Facebook are hitting this film hard for casting Scarlett Johansson instead of an Asian actress, despite the fact that the character is a cyborg and the film would be a hard sell for non-anime fans without a known female action star in the role. Besides, both original creators, Mamoru Oshii (director of the first anime film and its direct sequel) and Masamune Shirow (author of the manga), are delighted that ScarJo was cast and don't understand the "controversy" at all.
What does the character being a cyborg have to do with anything? She's Japanese from what I remember. Her name is Motoko Kusinagi, and I'm pretty sure it's implied that her outside looks the same before the cybernetic body replacement. I think in the SAC animated film she's shown having slightly varying body types, but there's nothing to indicate that they're some are caucasian.

The Major not being Japanese is a big reason why I don't want to see it. The manga and TV series took place in Japan. The animated film was set in China or just looked like China.

If people can be legitimately pissed at the Gods of Egypt having an all-white cast, why not here too?

Didn't the Dragon Ball and Avatar: The Last Air Bender feature white actors playing Japanese characters too? I understand why fans would be pissed.
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Old 03-27-17, 09:45 AM
  #202  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

I've never seen Ghost in the shell, though it is popular enough that I have read and heard about it. I will be watching this on Thursday but its mainly because of ScarJo. My wife knows that if she was ever to call me and I would leave everything behind in a heart beat. LOL

Anyway, I am watching this simply because ScarJo is in it and not because it is Ghost in the Shell.
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Old 03-27-17, 09:58 AM
  #203  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

And that's exactly why she was cast.

I'll be seeing it on Sunday and I'm a fan of both the actress and anime.
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Old 03-27-17, 11:57 AM
  #204  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

I think that this whole "white washing" thing is blown out of proportion. Johansson was hired because she is a well known actress. The people who should be offended the most, Japanese people, don't care. They want to see films made out of their properties and don't care if the person is white, black, asian, or latino. If the filmmakers and creators of the original property are cool with the casting, then why are people still offended? Sure, it would be nice to see the character as written and drawn, but there are not many studios that are going to give a huge budget to a film that won't play in as many markets.

The casting in Gods of Egypt is bad because they are in Africa. Their body color can not be changed. In Ghost in the Shell, the character is an android so the makers of said android can make it anything they want to. The character does not have to be Japanese. It can be whatever the makers want it to be. It could be a guy, a dinosaur, a bike seat, etc. In both cases the characters are fictional, but the Gods of Egypt characters are based on black characters and come from Africa. They can be changed, but cause more harm than good. The Japanese public don't care about that. We shouldn't either.
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Old 03-27-17, 12:08 PM
  #205  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by godzilla rules View Post
I think that this whole "white washing" thing is blown out of proportion. Johansson was hired because she is a well known actress. The people who should be offended the most, Japanese people, don't care....
This is a massive over generalization. There are Japanese people that do care. At the least, according to this article, the reaction has been mixed:
http://kotaku.com/the-japanese-inter...-gh-1771544034

Also, I know that the creators involved with the original film have voice support of the casting, but keep in mind that they have a financial interest in this film doing well, so they're not necessarily the most neutral observers.

The basic fact is that a Caucasian has been cast in a role that was originally a Japanese character. Whether that offends you, or puts you off seeing the movie, is entirely a matter of opinion. Nobody is "wrong" for being offended, and neither is anyone wrong for wanting to see the movie regardless.
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Old 03-27-17, 12:37 PM
  #206  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
The commissars of political correctness on Facebook are hitting this film hard for casting Scarlett Johansson instead of an Asian actress, despite the fact that the character is a cyborg and the film would be a hard sell for non-anime fans without a known female action star in the role. Besides, both original creators, Mamoru Oshii (director of the first anime film and its direct sequel) and Masamune Shirow (author of the manga), are delighted that ScarJo was cast and don't understand the "controversy" at all.
Hey Ash, since you are the Anime guru. Whats the proper release/order for watching all these Ghost in the Shell anime iterations, is there a version that is better than other? I been trying to buy the blu-ray but there is so many versions out there 2.0, complex, arise, innocence ?
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Old 03-27-17, 01:09 PM
  #207  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

I would watch them in chronological release dates.

Comic book (1991)
Ghost in the Shell (1995)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (television series 2002)
Ghost in the Shell: SAC: Second Gig (television series 2004)
Ghost in the Shell: Innocence (2004)

Skip the movies assembled from television series episodes:
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex The Laughing Man (2005)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex Individual Eleven (2006)
Ghost in the Shell: The New Movie (2014)

I haven't seen The New Movie or the Arise episodes.

The continuity is completely different in the comic, the TV series, and the movies. Characters retire in one continuity and stick around in a different one.

My favorites are the two TV series. They have the time to spread out the underlying ideas.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 03-27-17 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 03-27-17, 01:58 PM
  #208  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by nando820 View Post
Hey Ash, since you are the Anime guru. Whats the proper release/order for watching all these Ghost in the Shell anime iterations, is there a version that is better than other? I been trying to buy the blu-ray but there is so many versions out there 2.0, complex, arise, innocence ?
Ummm...what Nick said.
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Old 03-27-17, 02:16 PM
  #209  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
What does the character being a cyborg have to do with anything? She's Japanese from what I remember. Her name is Motoko Kusinagi, and I'm pretty sure it's implied that her outside looks the same before the cybernetic body replacement. I think in the SAC animated film she's shown having slightly varying body types, but there's nothing to indicate that they're some are caucasian.

The Major not being Japanese is a big reason why I don't want to see it. The manga and TV series took place in Japan. The animated film was set in China or just looked like China.

If people can be legitimately pissed at the Gods of Egypt having an all-white cast, why not here too?

Didn't the Dragon Ball and Avatar: The Last Air Bender feature white actors playing Japanese characters too? I understand why fans would be pissed.
Original Ghost in the Shell was set in HK.
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Old 03-27-17, 02:19 PM
  #210  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

I re-watched the anime ahead of the live action release, and I didn't seem to think she was meant to be a specific race. She didn't have any obviously Asian features. Most of the animated cast doesn't look Asian. I mean Batou, Daisuke? That they have Japanese names, maybe because it's a Japanese anime? They're not likely to name someone Steve or Dave.




I definitely don't think Asian when I see this guy on screen:

Last edited by SmackDaddy; 03-27-17 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 03-27-17, 02:21 PM
  #211  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I would watch them in chronological release dates.

Comic book (1991)
Ghost in the Shell (1995)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (television series 2002)
Ghost in the Shell: SAC: Second Gig (television series 2004)
Ghost in the Shell: Innocence (2004)

Skip the movies assembled from television series episodes:
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex The Laughing Man (2005)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex Individual Eleven (2006)
Ghost in the Shell: The New Movie (2014)

I haven't seen The New Movie or the Arise episodes.

The continuity is completely different in the comic, the TV series, and the movies. Characters retire in one continuity and stick around in a different one.

My favorites are the two TV series. They have the time to spread out the underlying ideas.
Thank you! I will be in the look out for the SAC show
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Old 03-27-17, 04:37 PM
  #212  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

I'd say that regardless of race SJ most closely resembles the character's body type as drawn.
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Old 03-27-17, 04:38 PM
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy View Post
I re-watched the anime ahead of the live action release, and I didn't seem to think she was meant to be a specific race. She didn't have any obviously Asian features. Most of the animated cast doesn't look Asian. I mean Batou, Daisuke? That they have Japanese names, maybe because it's a Japanese anime? They're not likely to name someone Steve or Dave.




I definitely don't think Asian when I see this guy on screen:
Yeah, from my limited exposure to anime and manga, I've noticed that a lot of characters frequently appear to be caucasian. I remember watching "Battle of the Planets" when I was a kid and it never occurred to me that the show wasn't of American origin, and that the characters weren't caucasian.

And, another thing about Ghost in the Shell is that it's a cyberpunk story, and multiculturalism has always been a big theme in the genre. Just read the opening pages of William Gibson's Neourmancer, and the idea of having non-Japanese people in Japan isn't out of place at all. In a lot of cyberpunk the world has become a melting pot, cultures are appropriated regularly, and technology unites and connects the world.
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Old 03-27-17, 05:50 PM
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Yeah, from my limited exposure to anime and manga, I've noticed that a lot of characters frequently appear to be caucasian. I remember watching "Battle of the Planets" when I was a kid and it never occurred to me that the show wasn't of American origin, and that the characters weren't caucasian.

And, another thing about Ghost in the Shell is that it's a cyberpunk story, and multiculturalism has always been a big theme in the genre. Just read the opening pages of William Gibson's Neourmancer, and the idea of having non-Japanese people in Japan isn't out of place at all. In a lot of cyberpunk the world has become a melting pot, cultures are appropriated regularly, and technology unites and connects the world.
Precisely. As usual the "critics" are armchair critics with no learning or perspective on the subject. Internet gives even the most uninformed a platform.
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Old 03-27-17, 07:50 PM
  #215  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by nando820 View Post
Thank you! I will be in the look out for the SAC show
If you have Starz subscription, you can watch Ghost in the Shell (1995) movie on Starz app.
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Old 03-27-17, 10:29 PM
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by nando820 View Post
Thank you! I will be in the look out for the SAC show
As I said, it works better if you watch the original movie first. It eases you into the universe. The TV series drops you off the end of the pier.
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Old 03-28-17, 12:36 AM
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Original Ghost in the Shell was set in HK.
I found the info regarding that. Oshii wanted a futuristic-looking city, and felt that Hong Kong perfectly represented that. The manga and animated tv series was set in the fictional city of Niihama, Japan

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy View Post
I re-watched the anime ahead of the live action release, and I didn't seem to think she was meant to be a specific race. She didn't have any obviously Asian features. Most of the animated cast doesn't look Asian. I mean Batou, Daisuke? That they have Japanese names, maybe because it's a Japanese anime? They're not likely to name someone Steve or Dave.
That can be said for the vast majority of anime and manga. And yet that doesn't mean all these characters from different anime's are meant to be ethnically ambiguous, or that they're not supposed to be Japanese.




Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Yeah, from my limited exposure to anime and manga, I've noticed that a lot of characters frequently appear to be caucasian. I remember watching "Battle of the Planets" when I was a kid and it never occurred to me that the show wasn't of American origin, and that the characters weren't caucasian.
from wikipedia:
A common anime character design convention is exaggerated eye size. The animation of characters with large eyes in anime can be traced back to Osamu Tezuka, who was deeply influenced by such early animation characters as Betty Boop, who was drawn with disproportionately large eyes.

That's one of the reasons why many anime characters don't look specifically Japanese/Asian.

And, another thing about Ghost in the Shell is that it's a cyberpunk story, and multiculturalism has always been a big theme in the genre. Just read the opening pages of William Gibson's Neourmancer, and the idea of having non-Japanese people in Japan isn't out of place at all. In a lot of cyberpunk the world has become a melting pot, cultures are appropriated regularly, and technology unites and connects the world.
If showing multiculturalism in Ghost In The Shell was the intent of the original creator by having the main character and her supporting cast be non-Asian, I would think he'd do a better job of making it understood.

I think it robs the story of some its identity when they white-wash it like this. I also think it's a weak argument to use Neuromancer, which was written by a white American author, and features a protagonist with the name Henry Dorsett Case, to rationalize the casting of Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusinagi, since we know the producers did this for financial reasons and not for story purposes.

I understand the casting decisions and I'm not mad at the producers. But as a fan of the original, and someone who would like to see live-action adaptations of anime/manga properties, I'm not interested.

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Precisely. As usual the "critics" are armchair critics with no learning or perspective on the subject. Internet gives even the most uninformed a platform.
Very ironic post.

Last edited by brayzie; 03-28-17 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 03-28-17, 09:45 AM
  #218  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
I found the info regarding that. Oshii wanted a futuristic-looking city, and felt that Hong Kong perfectly represented that. The manga and animated tv series was set in the fictional city of Niihama, Japan


That can be said for the vast majority of anime and manga. And yet that doesn't mean all these characters from different anime's are meant to be ethnically ambiguous, or that they're not supposed to be Japanese.






from wikipedia:
A common anime character design convention is exaggerated eye size. The animation of characters with large eyes in anime can be traced back to Osamu Tezuka, who was deeply influenced by such early animation characters as Betty Boop, who was drawn with disproportionately large eyes.

That's one of the reasons why many anime characters don't look specifically Japanese/Asian.



If showing multiculturalism in Ghost In The Shell was the intent of the original creator by having the main character and her supporting cast be non-Asian, I would think he'd do a better job of making it understood.

I think it robs the story of some its identity when they white-wash it like this. I also think it's a weak argument to use Neuromancer, which was written by a white American author, and features a protagonist with the name Henry Dorsett Case, to rationalize the casting of Scarlett Johansson as Motoko Kusinagi, since we know the producers did this for financial reasons and not for story purposes.

I understand the casting decisions and I'm not mad at the producers. But as a fan of the original, and someone who would like to see live-action adaptations of anime/manga properties, I'm not interested.



Very ironic post.
For the sake of argument how would you cast a live action Castle in the Sky? The characters have Japanese names, but they live in a world that looks like Wales, their skin and features are Western, their homes and tools, and the landscape itself all looks like early 20th century Europe. Yet the film was made by Japanese people and they did give the characters Japanese names. Do you cast Japanese actors? Cast white actors and change their names? What would you do?
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Old 03-28-17, 12:35 PM
  #219  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
For the sake of argument how would you cast a live action Castle in the Sky? The characters have Japanese names, but they live in a world that looks like Wales, their skin and features are Western, their homes and tools, and the landscape itself all looks like early 20th century Europe. Yet the film was made by Japanese people and they did give the characters Japanese names. Do you cast Japanese actors? Cast white actors and change their names? What would you do?
Hopefully, no one will ever have this problem because, hopefully, no one will ever be foolish enough to try to remake a Miyazaki film, live-action or otherwise.
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Old 03-28-17, 04:38 PM
  #220  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
For the sake of argument how would you cast a live action Castle in the Sky? The characters have Japanese names, but they live in a world that looks like Wales, their skin and features are Western, their homes and tools, and the landscape itself all looks like early 20th century Europe. Yet the film was made by Japanese people and they did give the characters Japanese names. Do you cast Japanese actors? Cast white actors and change their names? What would you do?
Dunno. I've never seen it. But from the trailer and from the wiki description, it doesn't even seem like it's set in a specific geographic region, unlike the Ghost in the Shell animated film which clearly was set in Hong Kong, and the other original manga and tv series which was set in Japan.

Originally Posted by wikipedia
The world in which the story takes place is clearly Earth, but apparently in an alternate history. None of the place names match real-life geography. The airships appear to use buoyant gas, but are different in appearance than actual dirigibles. The pirate flaptors and military planes do not resemble actual craft. The movie takes place sometime between 1868 and 1900, as the photograph of Laputa inside Pazu's house, taken by his father, is dated "1868. 7," which evidently means "July 1868".
So I'd argue there's more "elbow room" with regards to casting, but I couldn't say for sure since I've yet to see the whole thing.

Now if I was an actual Hollywood producer, yeah, I'd probably cast whoever has name recognition, or would sell tickets. I'm not mad at the studios, and although I used the term white-washing, I don't attribute anything racist, prejudiced or any other type of ill-intent to the makers of the new GITS.

As a movie goer though, I'd expect-actually, want-to see a live-action Akira to have actors of Japanese-decent playing the main characters. I wouldn't see it if it were any other way. I'd expect the same of GITS, and since that's not happening, I think it would take me out of the story.
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Old 03-28-17, 04:59 PM
  #221  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

I keep checking my ticketing system for Arclight theaters and most of the showing seem to be empty. The film opens Thursday. I doubt there could be this kind of back lash. Lucy was a megahit. Granted, Lucy had a great fucking marketing campaign, but still.

I am really hoping for the best, because i love ScarJo and think she rocks as an action star.
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Old 03-28-17, 07:00 PM
  #222  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
unlike the Ghost in the Shell animated film which clearly was set in Hong Kong
You just said it takes place in the fictional city of Niihama, Japan.
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Old 03-28-17, 07:04 PM
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
You just said it takes place in the fictional city of Niihama, Japan.
I'm pretty sure that I said that the manga and animated television series are set in Niihama, Japan, while the animated film by Oshii was set in Hong Kong. If not, that's what I meant.
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Old 03-28-17, 07:25 PM
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
As a movie goer though, I'd expect-actually, want-to see a live-action Akira to have actors of Japanese-decent playing the main characters. I wouldn't see it if it were any other way. I'd expect the same of GITS, and since that's not happening, I think it would take me out of the story.
AKIRA is set in Neo-Tokyo, but the storyline and characters could easily be adapted to a future post-apocalypse New York or L.A.

Not that I'd want that to happen.
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Old 03-28-17, 11:05 PM
  #225  
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Re: Ghost in the Shell (2017) (D: Rupert Sanders; S: Johansson)

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
AKIRA is set in Neo-Tokyo, but the storyline and characters could easily be adapted to a future post-apocalypse New York or L.A.

Not that I'd want that to happen.
But then the title of the film and it's significance becomes more conspicuous. I'd rather they just adapt the story and make their own version of it like The Departed did with Infernal Affairs. But from a financial POV you're sacrificing name recognition, a built in fan base, media build up, Blu Ray re-release tie-ins, etc.

Anyway, I saw the 5 minute trailer and the music is awesome. Reminds me of Tron. Not a fan of the shot-for-shot reenactment of that an iconic scene. That seems like it was popularized either by Rodriguez or Snyder.

But yeah, the music is really setting the mood for that scene, and the special effects look nice. Seeing that opening shot of the cityscape is gonna look great on the big screen.
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