Goonies85

You make a good point, and I agree. I always felt that Snyder didn't really realize how stupid it was in MoS when Superman just basically destroys Metropolis, regardless of casualties, and acts like a hero...And I think he tried to address it in BvS but it just seemed so dumb. Like, Superman is supposed to be this great hero and doesn't realize that when he demolishes buildings no one would be hurt? That was something I know a lot of critics pointed out at the time so at the beginning when Ben Affleck's Batman seems pissed off about Superman causing mass destruction it just came off as being really stupid. Like, no shit. Like, Superman caused enormous property damage in MoS...and then Batman basically just forgives him at a certain point. Nice save, Snyder.

RocShemp

In all fairness, at that point Zod intended to kill as many people as he could. So it's not like Supes could lure Zod away, given Zod would simply gleefully kill all the humans he saw. The building destruction was an unfortunate side effect of essentially two gods battling in a city of mortals.

Then again, there's this scene:

PhantomStranger

A solo Man of Steel 2 morphed into Batman fighting Superman and then it was later decided they needed to introduce Wonder Woman as well so fans would have some idea for her solo movie. That is how we ended up with Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice. Justice League was already planned and rushed into production literally after Dawn of Justice's premier weekend. It's been said corporate bonuses were tied into getting the movies out sooner rather than later, hence why they pushed them out in a rush.

RocShemp

I remember reading about the bonus situation. I thought the rush was only for JL (hence the Whedon cut). Didn't know the other flicks were rushed for the same reason.

Rob V

The Supes vs Zod scene reminded me of Team America where they blow up all of Paris to kill one guy.

ViewAskewbian

I believe this point is called MARTHA.

fujishig

I really really hope they give Gunn a lot more leeway because otherwise it'll just be more of the same.

This also reminds me that we had that scene where Batman has that prophetic dream about Superman leading the hordes of Apokalips or whatever and Batman is leading a future resistance, and then Flash comes back to tell him Lois is the key. We kind of got that in JL but no way that was the original plan.

It's like he knew he wanted Superman to fight Batman, and then that he wanted Doomsday to fight them (and WW) because cool, action, then tried to write stuff to support that. In JL he wanted Superman resurrected, the League to fight Superman, and then come together to fight Darkseid/Steppenwolf, and let's just get there however we need to.

And as far as casualties, fine, when he's in the middle of his fight with Zod, he can't save everyone, but like give me one scene of him trying, or maybe a scene of him like rushing to save people after he dispatches Zod? Anything?

RocShemp

The plan was to expand on that in Justice League 3: Knightmare, focused on getting Flash back in time while the remaining heroes make a last stand (get wiped out, really) by an Anti-Life controlled Superman. Then JL4 would be the present day heroes leading a global offensive against Darkseid and the armies of Apokolips. But, as you've noted, the plan kept changing. For instance, the Superman/Lois/Batman love triangle (where Lois hides the fact that she's pregnant with Bruce's child) was dropped in favor of a Bruce/Diana pairing. Also dropped was the plan for Superman to drop the Clark persona and go by Kal-El (think the Last Son of Krypton / Eradicator from the Reign of the Supermen arc). Black Manta and Oceanmaster were supposed to kill Aquaman (instead of Darkseid). Hal Jordan was supposed to be in JL3 but was replaced by Jon Stewart in ZSJL (which itself was supposed to be JL1 and JL2, before being merged into one movie), who was subsequently cut from the film at the behest of WB. I'm sure there's more I'm missing.

I know Gunn assured fans he and Safran won't fall prey to studio meddling, but given WB's track record so far, I hope he isn't being overly optimistic.

​​​​​​​We see him save a pilot and order civilians to safety during the Smallville fight. I'm okay with him focusing on Zod during the Metropolis fight, but the truck dodge irks me, especially since the ensuing explosion causes the parking structure behind him to collapse. The dodge looks cool (which I'm sure is why it exists) but it feels out of character for a guy who broke cover early in the film to save oil rig workers he didn't know. That was Superman. The guy who casually dodged the truck is Homelander.

fujishig

I mean that all sounds horrible and bleak (especially the Bruce's love child thing) so I'm kind of glad it never came to fruition I guess? But he really wanted to have Superman decimate the league after having them already battle him in the first movie (and work so hard to get him back)? Just makes me think he just really really hated Superman.

He should've done an adaptation of Irredeemable instead.

RocShemp

Cavill's "posturing" insistence on a hopeful Man of Steel sequel makes more sense, doesn't it? He's gone on record that he was okay taking Superman down a dark path, if they showed the true boy scout Superman first. Then it'd be about redeeming him and returning him to what he was, rather than darkness for darkness' sake.

Never heard of Irredeemable. Seems interesting.

Giantrobo

I still laugh that no one cared about mass destruction by Superpowered beings and others in films UNTIL Man of Steel. Now even Marvel films are FORCED to address it. I grew up on Godzilla films. No one at TOHO gave a fuck about buildings falling; and the people being killed was just straight up ignored unless it was a specific character.

IBJoel

You may also enjoy Justice League Dark: Apocalypse War, which is very... It covers a lot of the same ground as Snyder's plan was allegedly going to

IBJoel

It's a result of what Superman is in the popular consciousness versus what Snyder went for. From my memory ALL of the major set pieces of previous Superman films involve the character trying to save/fix things, no? Stopping the nukes in Reeves 1, stopping the destruction of Metropolis in Reeves 2, Reeves 3... I don't remember, Quest for Peace had him rebuilding monuments a few times, and Returns had that awesome plane sequence.

Then MoS was just a Dragon Ball Z fight. Which was really cool and actually could have worked if it started in the city and then moved further away, like in Dragon Ball Z, or if there was a little more care on Superman's part to mitigate largescale destruction or more shots of evacuation of the city or if Zod's mission was shown as the purposeful destruction of the area (like if Superman tried taking the fight elsewhere and Zod just went right back to the city). It was directed in such a way that the action came first and elements that would have added majorly to that action were neglected, probably because the military mission/Superman mission/Zod vs. Superman fight sequence was running long as it was.

Although I think Civil War was bad, the examination of collateral damage comes straight from the comics. I found it very laughable that only a few dozen people died at each event though. And BvS' "Good thing they're fighting on an uninhabited island that's also(?) somehow in the middle of 2 major cities" line was so hilariously strained.

fujishig

I mean yeah, that's Godzilla.

Even in the otherwise terrible Superman IV, the writers made it a point to show Superman saving lives while battling Nuclear Man, for instance:

Like they even gave him "rebuild the great wall of China" vision.

And I'll say it again, even here people were defending the movie saying "of course nobody died in all those buildings" until Snyder himself said "of course people died."

edited to add: it was Goyer actually (and you brought Godzilla up back then too... ):
https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk...l#post11819427

Giantrobo

I'm consistent. And I stand by what I said then and now.

RocShemp

Now I want a Godzilla V Superman: Dawn of the Kaiju movie.

Deftones

Gunn sort of hinted today that some of the GotG cast may follow him to DC projects. That is interesting.

RocShemp

Hasn't Dave Bautista stated before that he wants to play Bane?

Although type casting, Chris Pratt would be a great Booster Gold (or JLU style Wally West).

Giantrobo

Let Dave Bautista be Bane dammit!

Giantrobo

Kurt Russel as Black Adam?
Zoe Saldana as Wonder Woman?

RocShemp

I'd like Zoe Saldaņa as Vixen.

Kurt Russel would be a great Jay Garrick. He could also be Wildcat, but I prefer Stephen Lang for that role.

Runaway

They should cast Vin Diesel as Black Adam, just to screw with the Rock.

PhantomStranger

Most people believe the GOTG alum in DC will be Chris Pratt...as Booster Gold.

RocShemp

It just makes so much sense. Maybe too much sense, and Gunn will throw us a slight curveball by casting Pratt as Ted Kord instead.

devilshalo

I'd rather see Bradley Cooper in the role, but that's just me. Think Wedding Crashers' Sack Lodge.