Guru Askew

There's something about the morbid nature of the character that absolutely worked in regards to Ledger's death enhancing the mystique surrounding the character. Brandon Lee as The Crow is another great example of this. Had Christian Bale died practicing auto-erotic asphyxiation it would have been a disaster for the film itself but you had all these bullshit theories about how he couldn't shake the character and a lot of insinuation that the role itself is what drove him to his death and you have a perfect storm of hype and the normal "posthumous = beyond criticism" nonsense.

Truth is Ledger was bored and wanted to get fired because he had a pay-or-play contract and wanted an extended paid vacation, not to mention the fact that he was undoubtedly banging supermodels and Olsen twins during all that time the fanboys like to imagine he was holed up in a hotel room reading The Killing Joke over and over again. But no story is better than "actor goes crazy playing madman and kills himself."

If you ask me, if you're gonna blame Batman & Robin for BB's disappointing take at the box office and the theater shooting for TDKR getting beaten by Avengers and Bond them you have to concede that his death played a big part in TDK's massive critical and commercial success.

inri222

Who should have won here?

Robert De Niro in "Taxi Driver"
Peter Finch in "Network"
Giancarlo Giannini in "Seven Beauties"
William Holden in "Network"
Sylvester Stallone in "Rocky"

DaveyJoe

Giancarlo Giannini.

RichC2

Not really. TDKR still grossed $160m on opening weekend and that shooting occurred on a Friday. The fact The Avengers grossed over $200m on opening weekend was unprecedented, despite having a boost from 3D. Plus it was essentially a sequel to Iron Man, Thor, Incredible Hulk, and Captain America.

Batman Begins was well received, TDK was well received, and TDKR ultimately wound up with mixed reviews*. Generally when 1 is well received, the sequel gets the business.

Thus how something like Austin Powers opened to $9m and the sequel opened to $55m. I just don't see his death playing a massive role in any of it, TDK would have been a critical and box office success with or without that. Him winning an Oscar can be argued, but we'll never know for sure. I loved me some Batman Begins, was a little less enamored with the sequels and credit Ledger's actual portrayal of the joker as the highlight of TDK. When an actor's performance outshines the rest of a $185m production, they occasionally give them oscars. Well that and the bat pod, that was cool.

* - from Fans, from a strictly critic standpoint it is still highly rated.

Paul_SD

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Before Elvis, before Brandon Lee, before Heath, before Whitney...Paul Williams was satirizing the memorial sales bump equation in PotP's opening title sequence.

God, I love this movie.

Guru Askew

Ok, I should have said "if you blame the shooting or the 3D surcharge" in my post.

Your post definitely illustrates my point though. The fans always have an excuse about BB and TRKR waiting. They're like excuse Pez dispensers. But Ledger's death was the top entertainment story of the year and it's laughable to expect anyone to believe that it wasn't a huge factor. The only thing in your post that I would admit had little to nothing to gain from Ledger's death is your love of the Batpod.

I actually just watched the trilogy again this last week due to the $38.99 Amazon sale on the box set (I own the Schumacher films and both Columbia serials so owning the Nolan films isn't much of an endorsement) and the fact that he died was literally on my mind every second he was on-screen. This is the FACT that drives the trilogy's defenders nuts: you simply cannot say that his performance would have been as well-received had it not been a posthumous release. And it's like a burden-of-proof kinda thing where that posthumous asterix weighs a lot more than the fact that the people who criticize the film or the performance can never truly prove his death did play a huge role.

But yeah, I for one think that Michael Jackson's death had nothing to do with his titles occupying 9 of the top 10 on the catalog charts and outselling new releases for several weeks after his death. Can't prove I'm wrong, common sense be damned!

RichC2

Actually I was getting more at the fact that had Ledger lived, The Dark Knight still would have opened at around $150m or so. It may have not hit $533m, but likely would have been in the upper 400s at the very least. I mean hell, most of the Twilight movies opened $130m - $140m and Hunger Games opened to $150m. It really isn't that impressive of a number considering it was a good while since the first Joker footage came out and got the fans going, but it was a record at the time.

He's certainly the highlight of the second movie, he's simply entertaining as hell to watch. But it's tough to really say how many people would not have seen the movie had Ledger lived.

I think I would have agreed more had he died in, I dunno, late June. 7 months though is a pretty big gap.

kefrank

I find that really odd. I suspect the vast majority of people who watch the movie are simply immersed in the experience and aren't thinking about which actors are still alive.

I believe Ledger's death definitely moved the needle on the box office returns. It added to the already massive hype and got more people into the theater. I also believe, however, that the effect his death had on the critical assessment of his performance tends to be overstated and was essentially negligible. Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, but I think aside from a small wack-job fringe, most people judge his performance based on how they experienced it in the movie and not on anything else. If he hadn't died, the performance would still have received basically the same level of critical praise and would today be considered his "breakout."

Guru Askew

He was an Academy Award nominee who had top-billing in many of the films in which he appeared and TDK was his breakout? Oh, man.

kefrank

Just my opinion, but yes. Maybe "breakout" is the wrong term. I don't mean "the role that got him on the map." I mean "the role that raised his career to another level and earned him much more diverse and interesting roles *in better movies."

*edited to add this part. The vast majority of his "top-billing" was in mediocre-to-bad films with the exception being Brokeback Mountain.

RichC2

In otherwords, his Pirates of the Caribbean.

raven56706

Chicago and Shakespeare in Love won for Best Movie... i mean why is this even questioned?


but regardless, among those guys, his Joker performance took control of the movie... he stole the show

Mike86

I actually would agree that The Dark Knight probably would have been Ledger's big break had he lived. Let's face it he had been around for a while but aside from Brokeback Mountain he didn't have much of anything special to his filmgraphy before he passed away. While Brokeback Mountain got him a lot of attention I don't think it had the mass appeal like The Dark Knight did so he probably would have gotten even more attention after it.

jmu878

I still give it to him...no one lese from that year was all that memorable. Love PSH, but can't say I'll ever have the desire to watch Doubt again..