Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Yen
04-09-18, 02:02 PM
#1176
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Okay, thank you. I maintain my criticism that Bodhi’s insanity felt like something that was a major part of an earlier draft but may have been removed by the reshoots, so we get this awkward transition from him not remembering his own name to suddenly being totally in control of his faculties.
04-09-18, 02:39 PM
#1177
Banned by request
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Anyway if that were my only issue I would think much more highly of the movie than I do.
04-09-18, 02:48 PM
#1178
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Exactly, Saw says directly that it doesn't really matter either way, Bor Gullet will cause some pretty heavy damage while in there.
In fairness, the novelization makes what happened in the cage and after MUCH clearer:
In fairness, the novelization makes what happened in the cage and after MUCH clearer:
Spoiler:
04-09-18, 02:51 PM
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Here's my speculation about what was changed in the reshoot:
Clearly Forest Whiticker as Saw was at the heart of the problem. His limp death scene must have been added because they needed to remove him from the film. Bodhi's miraculous recovery from losing his mind is bizarre. I think he initially was left behind and died and Saw went with them on the mission. In the trailer it is Saw that gives the rousing speech instead of Jyn.
Bodhi stays on the ship during the mission and does a lot of talking on the radio, that's a sure sign of reshoot. Saw probably had that role originally since he is so physically slow. Bodhi does all the explaining of the mechanics of what they need to do while the mission is in progress and it's through that character and his dialogue that they altered whatever the original sequence of events was to what we finally got.
He's at the center of all the business about beaming the plans up to the ship. That had to be added in order to get the plans off the planet and kill all of the team. Initially I'm guessing that Jyn escaped with the plans, and her life, and for some reason this didn't work. Maybe being the lone survivor made her apppear unsympathetic. My other guess is that in the first cut they all lived, this was deemed too neat, and the reshoot was to film all their death scenes.
Clearly Forest Whiticker as Saw was at the heart of the problem. His limp death scene must have been added because they needed to remove him from the film. Bodhi's miraculous recovery from losing his mind is bizarre. I think he initially was left behind and died and Saw went with them on the mission. In the trailer it is Saw that gives the rousing speech instead of Jyn.
Bodhi stays on the ship during the mission and does a lot of talking on the radio, that's a sure sign of reshoot. Saw probably had that role originally since he is so physically slow. Bodhi does all the explaining of the mechanics of what they need to do while the mission is in progress and it's through that character and his dialogue that they altered whatever the original sequence of events was to what we finally got.
He's at the center of all the business about beaming the plans up to the ship. That had to be added in order to get the plans off the planet and kill all of the team. Initially I'm guessing that Jyn escaped with the plans, and her life, and for some reason this didn't work. Maybe being the lone survivor made her apppear unsympathetic. My other guess is that in the first cut they all lived, this was deemed too neat, and the reshoot was to film all their death scenes.
04-09-18, 02:54 PM
#1180
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
CGI Leia was ok. But Tarkin was AWESOME.Show this movie to an average person who knows very little about Star Wars, and they would never be able to tell either character was a CGI creation.
04-09-18, 03:03 PM
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I knew they were CGI. Didn't bother me.
04-09-18, 03:14 PM
#1182
Banned by request
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Tarkin looks close to real in a few shots. Leia looks plastic and fake as all hell.
04-09-18, 03:25 PM
#1183
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
The first time I saw Tarkin I was like "damn he aged well" then I remembered he was dead. Leia does look awful, just awful. Would have been better just to have her never face the camera.
04-09-18, 03:47 PM
#1184
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
My wife didn't realize Tarkin was CGI, for what it's worth. Leia was obvious. I agree that it would have been more effective if she had never shown her face. I was stunned when they did.
I thought I read somewhere--maybe here--that the original ending didn't have everyone die because Edwards didn't think Disney would let him go that bleak?
I thought I read somewhere--maybe here--that the original ending didn't have everyone die because Edwards didn't think Disney would let him go that bleak?
Last edited by JeremyM; 04-09-18 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Fixing typo
04-09-18, 04:35 PM
#1185
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
My wife didn't realize Tarkin was CGI, for what it's worth. Leia was obvious. I agree that it would have been more effective if she had never shown her face. I was stunned when they did.
I thought I read somewhere--maybe here--that the original ending didn't have everyone die because Edwards didn't think Disney would let him go that bleak?
I thought I read somewhere--maybe here--that the original ending didn't have everyone die because Edwards didn't think Disney would let him go that bleak?
04-09-18, 05:04 PM
#1186
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Leia has the same issue. That said, I wonder if it would be so obvious to us if we didn't already know EXACTLY what Leia (and Tarkin) at that age should look like.
04-09-18, 05:37 PM
#1187
Banned by request
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I think part of the reason CGI Tarkin worked well and Leia didn't was that Tarkin was lit more darkly, and was generally glowering down at Krennic. He moved less. Leia was brightly lit in an all-white room and had this massive shit eating grin on her face.
04-09-18, 06:40 PM
#1188
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
That's a good point, I think smiles and mouth movements are awkward in general still for CG characters, same as in a lot of video games that otherwise look amazing.
04-10-18, 09:42 AM
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
If you dig through the reviews thread, the first thing I posted after seeing Rogue One is “how did they do Tarkin?” I knew there was movie magic involved but I couldn’t tell if it was makeup, a lookalike, cgi, or all three. I’d say that’s a success.
Last edited by Mabuse; 04-10-18 at 11:57 AM.
04-10-18, 10:40 AM
#1190
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I fully believe that someone who had never seen a Star Wars movie before, and knew nothing about Carrie Fisher, would not have nearly as much of a problem with the "CGI" characters (if any at all).
(I put "CGI" in quotes because they weren't technically CGI characters, they were live actors with CGI "textures" superimposed over their faces.)
04-10-18, 11:13 AM
#1191
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I thought Tarkin worked really well. The first time I saw Leia on the big screen I didn't like it, way too unrealistic. However, re-watching at home I have gotten used to it and don't mind it now. Ends the movie just right.
04-10-18, 11:35 AM
#1192
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
There are any number of ways they could have done Leia in RO.
Only show her from behind, or with her hood on, then a close-up ofher hand taking the plans.
Use a body double (maybe even Billie) and then shoot around her face, show her out of focus, etc.
But no matter how they handled that scene, it's going to draw attention to the fact that it wasn't Carrie Fisher.
Only show her from behind, or with her hood on, then a close-up ofher hand taking the plans.
Use a body double (maybe even Billie) and then shoot around her face, show her out of focus, etc.
But no matter how they handled that scene, it's going to draw attention to the fact that it wasn't Carrie Fisher.
04-10-18, 12:06 PM
#1194
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I don’t really get the Tarkin complaints. For as much screen time as he had I thought he was handled really well and looked real in most shots. Leia didn’t look as good though. To me she looked more like a caricature and it almost felt like something that was thrown in at the last minute.
04-10-18, 12:26 PM
#1195
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I don’t really get the Tarkin complaints. For as much screen time as he had I thought he was handled really well and looked real in most shots. Leia didn’t look as good though. To me she looked more like a caricature and it almost felt like something that was thrown in at the last minute.
Tarkin's there for significant chunks of the movie, though, and he looks increasingly artificial the more time you spend looking at him (shadowing, skin texture, facial expressions) and experiencing how he interacts with real subjects. It's a problem because there's a real-world reference for the performance that he's inherently compared to, and they really don't match up. Had this just been a random person generated for a scene ... ? Sure, he might've worked alright, and an entire movie filled with CG characters like him would likely be effective, because they all have that shared level of realism.
Among real actors, in a real environment, and designed to remain cohesive with the version of Tarkin in A New Hope, however, CG Tarkin rings false.
04-10-18, 12:48 PM
#1196
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Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
He looks "increasingly artificial" because you guys aren't letting him "live". Seriously. when you watch Robert DeNiro, do you "increasingly" focus on his prominent mole?
04-10-18, 12:53 PM
#1197
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I actually got used to Tarkin, but the CGI Leia still bothers me as it something around her mouth area that doesn't jive with her face.
04-10-18, 01:15 PM
#1198
DVD Talk Reviewer
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
The longer digital Tarkin "lives" in the otherwise practical space that he inhabits, the less realistic he appears, thus the less "alive" he appears. And he's there for a fairly lengthy amount of time.
04-10-18, 01:15 PM
#1199
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
Tarkin looked great, and while we're at it, so did Snoke. People who are picking nits with these two effects are really going out of their way to find something to bitch about.
Leia was pretty bad, but if you're going to use that character in this movie, they needed to go all the way. Showing her from behind, or just her hand, or being a voice off screen would have been half-assed. She didn't look great, but I'm glad they went with it.
Leia was pretty bad, but if you're going to use that character in this movie, they needed to go all the way. Showing her from behind, or just her hand, or being a voice off screen would have been half-assed. She didn't look great, but I'm glad they went with it.
04-10-18, 01:20 PM
#1200
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (12/16/16, D: Edwards) S: Jones, Luna, Mendelsohn, Y
I personally thought that Tarkin was very well executed. Young Leia, not so much. Perhaps, if they'd simply not zoom in on her face so closely.
