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The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

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The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Old 11-02-23, 10:22 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by rocket1312
Or maybe they should have just made better movies. There's no reason whatsoever the projects they did have lined up couldn't have been good.
Plenty of reasons. They just ran out of ideas but were being pushed to keep churning out content. In Hollywood, release dates are usually set in stone before there's even a script.
Old 11-02-23, 11:36 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Plenty of reasons. They just ran out of ideas but were being pushed to keep churning out content. In Hollywood, release dates are usually set in stone before there's even a script.
​​​​​​So what makes anyone think they would have fared any better with the X-Men in place of those other movies they were churning out?
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Old 11-03-23, 08:43 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

X-Men have needed a break too. Same with Fantastic Four. Both franchises that have potential but have had their goodwill tarnished by countless bad efforts from the Fox films.
Old 11-03-23, 09:04 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Abob Teff
I understand the "rudderless" notion, but I have to highly disagree (not with you fuji, but quoting you for context). SOMEBODY was authorizing things and making the terrible call of "we MUST have something ALWAYS." A high-level exec who does a shitty job does not mean it is rudderless.

As for fatigue, here is my unpopular opinion . . . I'm not fatigued; I'm fed up. While I would MUCH rather have something new every 4 to 6 months than a constant stream, my waning interest isn't fatigue. It is directly related to the declining quality. I would rather wait for something worthwhile.
Sure, let's say lack of a good rudder then. Having to constantly scrap or change things late in the game is super expensive and usually results in a hodge podge of things that isn't as cohesive as it should've been. But you're right, if Feige is the guy and he was spread too thin, they needed to take a step back and they decided not to because $$$.

Still unbelievable to me about Daredevil Born Again, and now Blade. I'm actually kind of curious how much Secret Invasion ties into the Marvels because that was such a colossal misstep for Fury's character.
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Old 11-03-23, 09:59 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Some are now calling to resurrect Stark and Black Widow and have the original 6 Avengers back.
Old 11-03-23, 10:19 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

If they didn't announce the phases and release dates, maybe Feige wouldn't dig himself a hole to try and stick to the schedule.
Old 11-03-23, 10:24 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

They just can't build their entire movie franchise around an actor who is about to go to trial for assaulting a woman, can they? They're going to have to pivot quickly.
At least the Strikes have given them an excuse to pause and reassess.
Old 11-03-23, 10:56 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Meathead
Some are now calling to resurrect Stark and Black Widow and have the original 6 Avengers back.
That would be an easy quick fix but, ultimately, what would that do for the long run? They’re not going to get the original 6 actors back for another multi-movie contract.
Old 11-03-23, 11:02 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

I do think it's a little funny that even in this thread, we can't decide WHAT exactly is bad and WHAT exactly should have been done instead.
Are the movies bad? Why are they bad? Is there just too much content? Were the movies maybe always not amazing, but were novel at the time and nostalgic now?

Should they have shifted to X-Men and FF? Not ended the stories of the "original" Avengers characters? Jumped directly into the next myth arc?

Could it be that these executives are paralyzed with these same decisions (I'm not defending them, just pointing out the possible reality of their jobs)?

I do think that some of the issues were inevitable (no pun intended): The whole universe is at stake in Infinity War/Endgame, so when you take a step back, it can feel disappointing, although a major pivot to something different can breathe some life. But they tried to have it both ways and make these huge, 90% CGI spectacles like the Avengers films, but they could have stood out more if they changed production techniques.

If Black Widow is a smaller spy thriller closer to John Wick or Casino Royale in scale, that's neat. If Shang-Chi was closer to classic wuxia/xianxia, that's instantly more memorable. The films have this "saminess" that really hurts them individually and their overall refusal to take any risks hurts the brand.

And from a business POV, I wonder to what degree Fiege is head honcho. We got a little peak into his creative tactis on Daredevil (they're terrible), so I'm curious now his role in the biz/creative tug of war.
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Old 11-03-23, 11:25 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
That would be an easy quick fix but, ultimately, what would that do for the long run? They’re not going to get the original 6 actors back for another multi-movie contract.
Yeah I'm not in favor of it and I believe (at least) Scarlett Johansson has already said she's done with the character.

With Iger publicly acknowledging the downside of a Marvel TV glut that “diluted focus and attention,” the keepers of the comic book empire are considering some dramatic moves. Sources say there have been talks to bring back the original gang for an “Avengers” movie. This would include reviving Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man and Scarlett Johansson’s Black Widow, both of whom were killed off in “Endgame.” (That shouldn’t be a stumbling block — in comic books, beloved characters are often killed off, only to be resurrected thanks to the power of things like the multiverse.) But the studio hasn’t yet committed to the idea — if it were able to bring those actors back, it wouldn’t come cheap. Sources say Downey Jr.’s upfront salary for “Iron Man 3” was around $25 million.
https://variety.com/2023/film/featur...ng-1235774940/
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Old 11-03-23, 12:41 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Mike86
If Marvel Studios/Disney would have let the MCU take like a five year hiatus at the end of Endgame and then come back it would have been a nice resting period for everyone. Instead they had to turn the dial up and release even more content.

THIS!! I was just getting ready to post that exact same thing!

Endgame ended almost everything for me. I think the only ones I have seen in the theater since are the Spider-Man's and GOTG. No other ( really not sure however). None had any appeal to me and some where better than others but I was not really looking forward to them like before.


And Jonathan Majors is an incredible actor.


In what? Don't say Creed.

Old 11-03-23, 01:12 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by IBJoel
I do think it's a little funny that even in this thread, we can't decide WHAT exactly is bad and WHAT exactly should have been done instead.
Are the movies bad? Why are they bad? Is there just too much content? Were the movies maybe always not amazing, but were novel at the time and nostalgic now?

Should they have shifted to X-Men and FF? Not ended the stories of the "original" Avengers characters? Jumped directly into the next myth arc?
Yes to all of the above. The MCU isn’t hurting now because of one bad decision. It’s been death by a thousand cuts.

Most notably to me, Endgame was the culmination of three phases of MCU movies. The audience was asked to stay up to date on 22 movies spanning over a decade that ended with Endgame. And then, without allowing the audience to sit back and take a breath, they were asked to start following an all new phase of movies AND TV shows right away. There was severe burnout.

The fact the most of the movies released after Endgame have been middling at best and all have felt rushed also hurts the franchise. They have also all become so fantastical now. There are no more grounded stories like we saw in Iron Man, The Winter Soldier, The Incredible Hulk, etc. they’re all CGI extravaganzas that barely make any sense.

We’re left with a group of superheroes no one really cares about. No more Tony Starks. No more Steve Rogers. It’s all groups now and groups of minor characters. And again, the audience was asked to care about these characters IMMEDIATELY following a 22 movie commitment.
Old 11-03-23, 01:37 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by d2cheer
THIS!!
I agree on this too. Five years is a long time though. They should've just significantly scaled back.
Originally Posted by d2cheer
In what? Don't say Creed.
The Last Black Man in San Francisco, Da 5 Bloods, Magazine Dreams, White Boy Rick, The Harder They Fall.
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Old 11-03-23, 01:47 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

If they do recast Majors, I hope they do it with Michael Jai White. Black Kang Dynamite FTW!
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Old 11-03-23, 02:27 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

I think there is not one big reason for the mess they are in, there are a couple of smaller reasons, which in combination make a big mess. Starting new after Endgame, but continuing storylines is a problem. Air is out of the baloon and I have to be motivated to watch a Black Widow movie, although she isn't part of the MCU going forward. Having a Spider-Man sequel where everything is about Tony Stark, doesn't help either, for a fresh start. Not knowing which property and story is better suited for a movie (The Falcon and the Winter Soldier) and which is better suited for a series (Eternals). Giving Taika Waititi to much freedom and Sam Raimi not enough, shoehorning in new characters for spin offs, not really trying to change the formular a little bit. Shang Shi doesn't need a big MCU finale, Black Widow doesn't need sci-fi element, make it a Bourne type of movie and lower costs.
Old 11-03-23, 07:09 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

My hot take is they should pivot away from Kang and adapt Evolutionary War. Chukwudi Iwuji's performance as the High Evolutionary was lightyears better than anything Major's has done with Kang and his variants.

Obviously Marvel can't do this as they've already put their eggs in the Kang basket. But Major's has to be recast.
Old 11-03-23, 07:10 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

I like Iwuji's performance fine but the High Evolutionary honestly didn't seem like much of a threat in that movie (not that Kang seemed like much of a threat after they changed that ending in Quantumania).

As I said before, I'm not exactly sure what's the bigger Kang problem: the casting of Majors (which is a bummer but again they have every storyline reason they would ever need to recast him) or the lackluster audience reaction to Kang (getting introduced to the cinematic audience as a character Ant Man could essentially solo)
Old 11-03-23, 07:32 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

I never found any of the MCU films, in and of themselves, to be particularly good, but I really liked the idea of a cohesive cinematic universe set up the same way it is in the comics. It was a huge accomplishment that they managed to pull off over the course of almost two dozen movies.

Unfortunately, many bad decisions later, and, after blowing their load in Endgame, all we are left with are a bunch of bad-to-mediocre movies and tv series.
Old 11-03-23, 07:48 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by rocket1312
And Jonathan Majors is an incredible actor.
He might be, but you'd never know from his Marvel work. All of which has been fucking awful.
Old 11-03-23, 08:03 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I never found any of the MCU films, in and of themselves, to be particularly good, but I really liked the idea of a cohesive cinematic universe set up the same way it is in the comics. It was a huge accomplishment that they managed to pull off over the course of almost two dozen movies.
I never got that notion, the interconnection of the movies was pretty superficial, they just managed to make the fans believe there was a cohesive cinematic universe with some bits and pieces. Yes, they were connections and even outside of the post credit scenes, but essentially the movies weren't really built on each other.
In my opinion they wasted a lot of good opportunities. HYDRA was one and done, Civil War was one and done, they hardly had any interesting villains and the few they had, they got rid of fast, because the hero has to win at the end of the movie. The 2nd Avengers movie basically has nothing to do with any overreaching arc
Old 11-03-23, 08:03 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
I never found any of the MCU films, in and of themselves, to be particularly good, but I really liked the idea of a cohesive cinematic universe set up the same way it is in the comics. It was a huge accomplishment that they managed to pull off over the course of almost two dozen movies.

Unfortunately, many bad decisions later, and, after blowing their load in Endgame, all we are left with are a bunch of bad-to-mediocre movies and tv series.
I mean, that's how it is in comics too (right up to constantly changing plans and creative types leaving to do something else), so mission accomplished giving us the authentic experience.

I mean I'm a big comics fan. I thought Ms. Marvel was convoluted but I loved the character and the actress, and I just have like very little desire to go see the Marvels in theater for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it will eventually be on Disney +. But I hope it's great.

I didn't even remember that we hadn't watched GotG 3 until I sat down the other day and was like "did we watch that?" Turned out we hadn't, so we watched it before Halloween and we loved it. This is only my silly anecdote but I'd think I'd be rushing out to see a big Avengers movie. So it seems to me like they did take a step back (they kind of had to) and yeah some of these things were terrible but people are kind of expecting that same rush from pre Infinity War and it just ain't happening.
Old 11-03-23, 08:10 PM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Runaway
I never got that notion, the interconnection of the movies was pretty superficial, they just managed to make the fans believe there was a cohesive cinematic universe with some bits and pieces. Yes, they were connections and even outside of the post credit scenes, but essentially the movies weren't really built on each other.
In my opinion they wasted a lot of good opportunities. HYDRA was one and done, Civil War was one and done, they hardly had any interesting villains and the few they had, they got rid of fast, because the hero has to win at the end of the movie. The 2nd Avengers movie basically has nothing to do with any overreaching arc
Didn’t the second Avengers movie tie into Civil War with the Avengers choosing sides of morally right and wrong? And wasn’t the second Avengers movie the catalyst for turning the Government against the team causing them to essentially all split and go underground prior to Infinity War?

Granted, it’s been a long time since I’ve gone back and watched past movies.
Old 11-04-23, 08:25 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Didn’t the second Avengers movie tie into Civil War with the Avengers choosing sides of morally right and wrong? And wasn’t the second Avengers movie the catalyst for turning the Government against the team causing them to essentially all split and go underground prior to Infinity War?

Granted, it’s been a long time since I’ve gone back and watched past movies.
Yes it began with Age of Ultron. The destruction of Sokovia and the bombing that killed T'Chaka (at the start of Civil War) directly led to the creation of the Sokovia accords. A lot more happened in Ultron for the overall arc. Vision, the twins, it set Thor and Hulk on the road to Ragnarok... etc.
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Old 11-04-23, 11:23 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by Meathead
Yes it began with Age of Ultron. The destruction of Sokovia and the bombing that killed T'Chaka (at the start of Civil War) directly led to the creation of the Sokovia accords. A lot more happened in Ultron for the overall arc. Vision, the twins, it set Thor and Hulk on the road to Ragnarok... etc.
It also very subtly set up Captain America: The Winter Soldier with the unspoken question of exactly how Hydra got their hands on the Sceptre after the events of The Avengers. You'd assume S.H.I.E.L.D. would have taken possession of it. Of course TWS revealed that Hydra was deeply embedded in S.H.I.E.L.D., which explains how Von Strucker got his hands on the Sceptre.
Old 11-04-23, 11:24 AM
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Re: The General Marvel Cinematic Universe Film discussion thread - News, rumors, etc.

Originally Posted by IBJoel
It also helps to remember that Hollywood is now making blockbusters with China, India, and LATAM in mind and even how younger generations have shifted within the US. So trying to appeal to all those demos leads to mixed results. Some good, some bad (the latter mostly resulting from execs demanding things be as sanitized as possible for censors and shallow attempts at catering).
I may not speak for the majority and I may not be the norm, but I am an old white hetero- male who does enjoy the diversity. That is the world we live in, so let's be realistic about it. Like everything else though, it needs to be good, not "just because." There isn't a single piece of the Marvel property that I disliked due to the gender, ethnicity, height, or weight of a character. There are many I have not enjoyed because characters were poorly crafted or unnecessary to the point it detracted from the story.
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