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Old 01-16-14, 08:50 PM   #26
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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Yes. Iron Man is no different than James Bond, Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man. Once RDJ says he's done, Marvel will get someone else. Its not like Marvel is just going to quit using Iron Man just because RDJ calls it quits. That's dumb, like throwing money in the trash. As long as Iron Man continues to sell, he will continue on with or without RDJ.
Or, they could write/kill him off and put the emphasis on another character in phase 3, which is what it sounds like they are doing. They have plenty of characters in the marvel universe they can cycle in and out. It's not like every Marvel Phase has to have an Iron Man franchise running. It would actually help to give a character closure every once in a while, and they can always give the character a soft reboot a few phases down the road.
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Old 01-16-14, 09:07 PM   #27
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

I don't see why Marvel would want to kill one of it's biggest characters. That just seems dumb to me as he's still a bankable character. When Robert Downey Jr. is done playing Stark/Iron Man that will no doubt be a big blow to the Marvel Cinematic Universe and he'll be tough to replace but at the end of the day I'm sure someone could be found. My guess is maybe they'll just have Iron Man absent from a few films to let people kind of get over Downey Jr. not playing him and then re-introduce him somewhere down the line. I think that reboots work better when they aren't just shoehorning a new actor in after another actor recently played that character (my only worry about Affleck as the new Bruce/Batman) so this would work well in my opinion.
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Old 01-16-14, 09:09 PM   #28
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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Or, they could write/kill him off and put the emphasis on another character in phase 3, which is what it sounds like they are doing. They have plenty of characters in the marvel universe they can cycle in and out. It's not like every Marvel Phase has to have an Iron Man franchise running. It would actually help to give a character closure every once in a while, and they can always give the character a soft reboot a few phases down the road.
They're not going to kill off Iron Man. He's the biggest name Marvel has in these movies. It would be like DC killing off Batman. Its not going to happen.

Even if did, there's no such thing as permanent death in comics anyway. He would be back. See Agent Coulson for example...

No, I'm not saying they need an Iron Man 4 in Phase 3. I doubt it happens since they are focusing on other characters like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange for Phase 3. There will be an Iron Man 4 eventually. As long as the MCU keeps selling there will be a Phase 4, 5, 6, and so on.

They also won't reboot. Unlike DC, Marvel has never been known for rebooting. All their comics from 1960 are still in continuity. (The Spider-Man movies were rebooted, but that was Sony, not Marvel.)
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Old 01-16-14, 09:29 PM   #29
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

Hamm is inspired choice.
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Old 01-16-14, 10:08 PM   #30
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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They're not going to kill off Iron Man. He's the biggest name Marvel has in these movies. It would be like DC killing off Batman. Its not going to happen.

Even if did, there's no such thing as permanent death in comics anyway. He would be back. See Agent Coulson for example...

No, I'm not saying they need an Iron Man 4 in Phase 3. I doubt it happens since they are focusing on other characters like Ant-Man and Doctor Strange for Phase 3. There will be an Iron Man 4 eventually. As long as the MCU keeps selling there will be a Phase 4, 5, 6, and so on.

They also won't reboot. Unlike DC, Marvel has never been known for rebooting. All their comics from 1960 are still in continuity. (The Spider-Man movies were rebooted, but that was Sony, not Marvel.)
I'm not necessarily saying they have to kill him off, just give him some closure. Let him "retire" with Pepper Potts and be happy for a few years. Then in phase 3 and 4 they can introduce some new characters and when audiences are ready for a non-RDJ Iron Man they can recast the role. The Avengers are facing a threat so dangerous that they need Iron Man back. The best thing about the Marvel cinematic universe is that they're expanding their horizons and giving us lesser known characters. I'm more excited about GOTG than any of the solo movies for the headlining Avengers.

It also adds a layer of realism to the universe that some characters retire or die or move on from crime fighting. It doesn't have to be Iron Man, but just in general, they can introduce some heroes/villains and after a few movies kill them off, it adds gravity to the suspense if the characters actually have something to lose.

I know comic book characters that die always come back, that's why it's within the realm of possibility in the movies. Batman and Superman are DC's two biggest characters and they've both died in the canon of the comics, I don't see why it can't happen in the movies.

I didn't know about Marvel's (lack of) rebooting, but the comics don't translate perfectly to movies. Are we supposed to believe that Tony Stark never ages? Or that he ages for about 10 years, then a couple years later he suddenly looks 30? Will they just ignore issues like that? I don't know, but while the movies take their cues from the comic books, they also have to stand on their own.

Whedon's Avengers was faithful to the comic books but not an exact adaptation, things have to be changed to work within the context of the movies, for example Tony Stark creating Ultron, because Ant Man isn't established yet. The biggest criticisms of movies like Iron Man 2 is that it's forcing in plotlines and characters to tie it to the upcoming Avengers movie at the expense of Iron Man 2 as a film. Avengers 2 will have even more characters but eventually they will have to exclude a few, and that will work better if they give those characters closure, even if it's just temporary.
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Old 01-17-14, 04:03 AM   #31
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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I'm not necessarily saying they have to kill him off, just give him some closure. Let him "retire" with Pepper Potts and be happy for a few years. Then in phase 3 and 4 they can introduce some new characters and when audiences are ready for a non-RDJ Iron Man they can recast the role. The Avengers are facing a threat so dangerous that they need Iron Man back. The best thing about the Marvel cinematic universe is that they're expanding their horizons and giving us lesser known characters. I'm more excited about GOTG than any of the solo movies for the headlining Avengers.
That's basically what they have already done. Iron Man 3 was closure to Tony Stark (for now at least). RDJ is only contracted for six movies, three Iron Man and three Avengers. So unless he signs another contract, we aren't going to see him in any more solo movies. He might have cameo roles, but no starring role except in Avengers 2 and 3.


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It also adds a layer of realism to the universe that some characters retire or die or move on from crime fighting. It doesn't have to be Iron Man, but just in general, they can introduce some heroes/villains and after a few movies kill them off, it adds gravity to the suspense if the characters actually have something to lose.
But the suspense is ruined when you realize that comic characters always come back to life. Agent Coulson's "death" in the first Avengers movie has less impact now that he's back.
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Old 01-17-14, 09:34 AM   #32
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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That's basically what they have already done. Iron Man 3 was closure to Tony Stark (for now at least). RDJ is only contracted for six movies, three Iron Man and three Avengers. So unless he signs another contract, we aren't going to see him in any more solo movies. He might have cameo roles, but no starring role except in Avengers 2 and 3.
I haven't seen Iron Man 3 yet, it just came from netflix today!



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But the suspense is ruined when you realize that comic characters always come back to life. Agent Coulson's "death" in the first Avengers movie has less impact now that he's back.
I agree about Coulson, but there must be some supporting characters they can actually kill off without the urge to resurrect them in a spin off tv show. I nominate Hawkeye.
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Old 01-17-14, 09:52 AM   #33
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

I'd agree about Hawkeye. I like the character in the comics but so far? He's boring. He's rather uninteresting even as a visual. Avengers 2 better make him cool. Sadly he didn't have much to do in Phase 1. Phase 2 so far doesn't reveal anything else aside from the team sequel. Widow has been in 2 solo big character movies and the team movie. Hawkeye, small cameo in Thor and them The Avengers. I think he might be a character that may benefit some exposure in a one shot.
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Old 01-17-14, 09:54 AM   #34
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

His cameo in Thor was so pointless.
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Old 01-17-14, 10:12 AM   #35
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

Marvel should give Hawkeye his own TV series to compete against Arrow.

It couldn't be any worse than Agents of SHIELD.
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Old 01-17-14, 10:36 AM   #36
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

I dunno. So far ABC isn't a venue I'd want something like that for. I am very interested in the Netflix stuff they want to do.
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Old 01-17-14, 10:54 AM   #37
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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I know comic book characters that die always come back, that's why it's within the realm of possibility in the movies. Batman and Superman are DC's two biggest characters and they've both died in the canon of the comics, I don't see why it can't happen in the movies.
Batman died in the comics?
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Old 01-17-14, 11:00 AM   #38
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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Batman died in the comics?
Five years ago or so in Final Crisis/Batman RIP
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Old 01-17-14, 11:02 AM   #39
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

Pretty much everyone in comics has been dead at some point or another.
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Old 01-17-14, 12:37 PM   #40
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

So far the only people, in the regular continuity, that stay dead are Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy.

I always loved this saying from a while back, "The only people who stay dead in comics, are Bucky, Jason Todd, and Uncle Ben." Question: why was Gwen Stacy not in that saying?

Todd came back, not sure how much of quality event this was. Bucky came back... And it was fucking awesome. Uncle Ben is still dead but we see him from time to time in a spiritual or dream like situation. Though alternate universes' Bens have been seen. Stacy is still dead too.

Last edited by Solid Snake; 01-17-14 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 01-17-14, 01:17 PM   #41
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

There's always some continuity-shattering super-punch that can bring anyone back. That's how Jason Todd was explained as returning. Gwen Stacey was THIS close to being revived as a result of the One More Day reboot fiasco. But yeah, Bucky's revival was so awesome, they're making a movie about it.
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Old 01-17-14, 01:22 PM   #42
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

KIND of wish they held off on TWS but... whatever. I'm fine with it. Looks awesome. Sooooo... did Marvel bring Brubaker on set or anything? Cuz...that was his idea and they do at times bring the story creators on set for the hell of it.

He was fucking surprised when they announched it too. Nobody expected that... so quickly. Though TWS was slightly reference by an action Bucky did in the Cap film. Which as a fan was cool.
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Old 01-17-14, 05:33 PM   #43
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

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Batman died in the comics?
Yes, in Final Crisis he was "killed" by Darkseid. Darkseid hit him with the Omega beams, but it didn't actually kill him. It sent Batman back through time. So then we got a miniseries with Batman as a caveman, as a pirate, in the wild wild west, etc as he tried to make his way back to the present time. Its actually better than it sounds. It was part of Grant Morrison's "Bat-epic" which was all good. Confusing as heck at times but still good.

Also during the time Bruce was "dead" Dick took up the cowl as Batman. Damian (Bruce's biological son with Talia) was the new Robin, and the dynamic between Dick and Damian was great. The whole Dick/Damian run is highly regarded by everyone as being pure awesome.


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So far the only people, in the regular continuity, that stay dead are Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy.

I always loved this saying from a while back, "The only people who stay dead in comics, are Bucky, Jason Todd, and Uncle Ben." Question: why was Gwen Stacy not in that saying?

Todd came back, not sure how much of quality event this was. Bucky came back... And it was fucking awesome. Uncle Ben is still dead but we see him from time to time in a spiritual or dream like situation. Though alternate universes' Bens have been seen. Stacy is still dead too.
Gwen probably wasn't included because she came back in the original 1970s Clone Saga. Sure she was a clone, but still back in theory.

The event that brought Jason back was Infinite Crisis. Infinite Crisis itself was good, but the Jason retcon was lame as hell. Superboy Prime literally punched reality so hard that he retconned Jason into being alive again. I'm not joking. That's seriously what happened. He freaking punched reality.

Judd Winick was the writer of that Jason storyarc, and he originally wanted Jason to be brought back via a Lazarus Pit, but the editors said no and forced him to tie it into Infinite Crisis. Winick's original idea was used however for the Under the Red Hood animated movie. Its one case where the movie is much much better than the book its based upon.
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Old 01-17-14, 05:39 PM   #44
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

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Yes, in Final Crisis he was "killed" by Darkseid. Darkseid hit him with the Omega beams, but it didn't actually kill him. It sent Batman back through time. So then we got a miniseries with Batman as a caveman, as a pirate, in the wild wild west, etc as he tried to make his way back to the present time.
Did Shelly Moldoff or Dick Sprang illustrate it?
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Old 01-17-14, 05:53 PM   #45
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Did Shelly Moldoff or Dick Sprang illustrate it?
Dick Sprang died in 2000... Grant Morrison's "Bat-epic" ran from 2006 to 2012.

Yes, I know that time travel story sounds like something from the Silver Age, and it kind of is. Morrison's run is confusing because it blends so many different eras of Batman together. It mixes the Silver Age goofiness together with Modern Age grimness. Morrison's run was very good though, universally regarded as one of the best Batman runs of the modern age. He also brought Bat-Mite back and made him cool.
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Old 01-17-14, 06:30 PM   #46
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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But the suspense is ruined when you realize that comic characters always come back to life. Agent Coulson's "death" in the first Avengers movie has less impact now that he's back.
I like Coulson as a character, but his death had no impact as it was.

Batman's "death" in Final Crisis was a joke, considering they show him, stuck in time, at the end of Final Crisis.

Superboy Prime's retcon punch was used to explain all the irregularities in continuity that happened.

Bottom line is that comics are work for hire, and for the most part are written by fanboys. One writer will kill someone off to show that their new creation is really awesome, the next writer will bring them back because that was his favorite character as a kid, and that new creation of the first writer is off to oblivion. Editorial mandate will enforce that, say, Superman is the only Kryptonian left, but then editorial direction will change and hey, Superman was part of the Legion again, and Supergirl and Krypto are back.

As popular as the movies are, I think it's a better plan to "reboot" the franchise every so often like they've been doing, since actors will grow older or want to move on (does Renner really want to do a Hawkeye movie?), directors will change, etc. One thing I wish they didn't do is keep rehashing the origin stories and taking up so much of the initial movies after a reboot, but I guess there are some kids in some country somewhere who are going to go to a Batman movie and have never heard the character's origin...
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Old 01-17-14, 08:20 PM   #47
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects - Rumors, casting, etc.

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They also won't reboot. Unlike DC, Marvel has never been known for rebooting. All their comics from 1960 are still in continuity. (The Spider-Man movies were rebooted, but that was Sony, not Marvel.)
There's Lee's Hulk and Leterrier's Incredible Hulk and the Avenger's Hulk. Has there been a proper segue from Norton to Ruffalo? It's not as if we see Gen. Ross or Betty in Avengers to tie it in, only a throw away line about the last time he was in New York and he destroyed Harlem.
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Old 01-17-14, 08:37 PM   #48
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There's Lee's Hulk and Leterrier's Incredible Hulk and the Avenger's Hulk. Has there been a proper segue from Norton to Ruffalo? It's not as if we see Gen. Ross or Betty in Avengers to tie it in, only a throw away line about the last time he was in New York and he destroyed Harlem.
Marvel/Disney had nothing to do with Lee's Hulk, and it therefore is not part of the MCU.

The Incredible Hulk movie is definitely in continuity with the MCU. If I remember right, in one scene of Iron Man 2, news footage of the Incredible Hulk movie can be seen in the background. Also, the Incredible Hulk movie established Hulk's new origin as being a failed attempt at recreating the super-soldier serum, and this is referenced in the Avengers movie. They changed the actor playing Bruce Banner, but the movie is definitely still in continuity.

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Old 01-17-14, 09:26 PM   #49
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Re: Future Marvel Cinematic Universe projects discussion thread - Rumors, casting, et

And you see Stark talking to Ross.
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Old 01-17-14, 09:32 PM   #50
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And you see Stark talking to Ross.
Yeah, I forgot about that. The Incredible Hulk has a mid/after credit sequence just like every other MCU movie.
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