View Poll Results: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
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Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
#251
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Then you'll love it when you hear I'm contemplating going to the theater to see it again only to leave 20 minutes later to demand a refund.
The tirade of hate I'm going to spew at the theater for daring to show this putrid pile of shit is going to be epic (and pathetic).
The tirade of hate I'm going to spew at the theater for daring to show this putrid pile of shit is going to be epic (and pathetic).
#255
Member
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Plenty!
What follows is a point by point response, spoilerized for people that have no interest in this semi-off tangent discussion (though these problems still relate- as MoS- to issues of poor storytelling )
*to spin that short hand fan fic scenario out a little more fully
What follows is a point by point response, spoilerized for people that have no interest in this semi-off tangent discussion (though these problems still relate- as MoS- to issues of poor storytelling )
Spoiler:
*to spin that short hand fan fic scenario out a little more fully
Spoiler:
Plus based on Luke and Vader's conversation after Luke surrenders, Vader hints he is conflicted. He says "it's too late for me" to Luke, meaning he admits he has been taken over by the dark side of the Force, but yet Luke feels good in him. Are we supposed to think this a trick? No, because Luke is strong with the Force. You're making a hypothetical argument that's just not there. I saw the original movies before the prequels and didn't read any other books ot whatever point you were trying to make. Never did I doubt Vader was Luke's father. It made complete sense.
Plus Vader is not as ruthless once he does come into contact with Luke at the end of Empire. He was killing his top men left and right. He doesn't when the Millennium Falcon gets away at the end of Empire.
#256
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Brack, it all boils down to the difference between being told something by a character versus seeing that information played out in a dramatic way so that we can experience it ourselves.
In other words- talk is cheap and it's the laziest form of dramatic writing to have characters tell you what has happened or how they feel about it, rather than showing us the events play out and letting us experience and intuit that information and those feelings ourselves.
In other words- talk is cheap and it's the laziest form of dramatic writing to have characters tell you what has happened or how they feel about it, rather than showing us the events play out and letting us experience and intuit that information and those feelings ourselves.
Spoiler:
#257
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
I didn't get to implement my MoS plan today.
The ushers wouldn't let my cat in even if I paid for his ticket (he was on a leash at least).
I told them that my cats true origin story made more sense than Supermans in MoS, and that my cats cape wasn't waiting in the antartic for 20,000 years to be retrieved (I had made it last week - and it was more "Superman authentic"). I even got the theater manager to agree. Unfortunately unless I get paperwork showing that my cat is a service animal, they won't let him in.
I have to make some calls in the morning.
The ushers wouldn't let my cat in even if I paid for his ticket (he was on a leash at least).
I told them that my cats true origin story made more sense than Supermans in MoS, and that my cats cape wasn't waiting in the antartic for 20,000 years to be retrieved (I had made it last week - and it was more "Superman authentic"). I even got the theater manager to agree. Unfortunately unless I get paperwork showing that my cat is a service animal, they won't let him in.
I have to make some calls in the morning.
#258
Member
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Brack, it all boils down to the difference between being told something by a character versus seeing that information played out in a dramatic way so that we can experience it ourselves.
In other words- talk is cheap and it's the laziest form of dramatic writing to have characters tell you what has happened or how they feel about it, rather than showing us the events play out and letting us experience and intuit that information and those feelings ourselves.
In other words- talk is cheap and it's the laziest form of dramatic writing to have characters tell you what has happened or how they feel about it, rather than showing us the events play out and letting us experience and intuit that information and those feelings ourselves.
Spoiler:
Plus how do you not believe Luke wasn't getting in Vader's head as well? Obviously he was, otherwise he wouldn't be sensing the good in him. Vader isn't the star of these last few movies, and Ben even said Anakin was a good man. That alone was enough for me and probably most people. Not you of course. You simply don't buy Vader would destroy the Emperor, who was killing his own son. I guess when we're told the force is strong with Anakin or Luke, or whoever, we shouldn't believe it, since that's just talk? Some rationale you've got there.
#259
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Ok, I'm going to try to frame this problem in a a way more germane to an MoS thread.
If after the Smallville battle, when the army and Superman get together and hatch the singularity plan
What would your reaction have been if at that point Superman got quiet, lowered his head in thought for a few seconds and then suddenly announced.
"Wait! I think Zod's attitude can be changed. I feel that there is still a good man in there and I think I can reach him and together we will find a use for the codex that both honors Krypton and serves earth" And all the army people, and Lois, nod in agreement .
Would you have felt that Superman's feelings in that instance had been earned by Zod's actions in the film prior to that? Would you feel "yeah, he's obviously a good person because Superman just said he felt it...hopefully Superman can save him"?
Go a step further and when Superman tries and fails to convince Zod, they have a big contentious battle. Zod gets seriously injured and the Kryptonian Nazi doctor steps up finish Superman off and is seconds away from killing him when Zod suddenly has a change of heart and saves Superman by killing his Kryptonian compatriot - a person whose life's goals and life experience were much more similar to his Zod's than Zod's was to Kal's.
Would you have found that turn of events satisfying? Justified? Earned?
Or would it have seemed like complete bullshit?
If after the Smallville battle, when the army and Superman get together and hatch the singularity plan
What would your reaction have been if at that point Superman got quiet, lowered his head in thought for a few seconds and then suddenly announced.
"Wait! I think Zod's attitude can be changed. I feel that there is still a good man in there and I think I can reach him and together we will find a use for the codex that both honors Krypton and serves earth" And all the army people, and Lois, nod in agreement .
Would you have felt that Superman's feelings in that instance had been earned by Zod's actions in the film prior to that? Would you feel "yeah, he's obviously a good person because Superman just said he felt it...hopefully Superman can save him"?
Go a step further and when Superman tries and fails to convince Zod, they have a big contentious battle. Zod gets seriously injured and the Kryptonian Nazi doctor steps up finish Superman off and is seconds away from killing him when Zod suddenly has a change of heart and saves Superman by killing his Kryptonian compatriot - a person whose life's goals and life experience were much more similar to his Zod's than Zod's was to Kal's.
Would you have found that turn of events satisfying? Justified? Earned?
Or would it have seemed like complete bullshit?
#261
Member
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Ok, I'm going to try to frame this problem in a a way more germane to an MoS thread.
If after the Smallville battle, when the army and Superman get wa stogether and hatch the singularity plan
What would your reaction have been if at that point Superman got quiet, lowered his head in thought for a few seconds and then suddenly announced.
"Wait! I think Zod's attitude can be changed. I feel that there is still a good man in there and I think I can reach him and together we will find a use for the codex that both honors Krypton and serves earth" And all the army people, and Lois, nod in agreement .
Would you have felt that Superman's feelings in that instance had been earned by Zod's actions in the film prior to that? Would you feel "yeah, he's obviously a good person because Superman just said he felt it...hopefully Superman can save him"?
Go a step further and when Superman tries and fails to convince Zod, they have a big contentious battle. Zod gets seriously injured and the Kryptonian Nazi doctor steps up finish Superman off and is seconds away from killing him when Zod suddenly has a change of heart and saves Superman by killing his Kryptonian compatriot - a person whose life's goals and life experience were much more similar to his Zod's than Zod's was to Kal's.
Would you have found that turn of events satisfying? Justified? Earned?
Or would it have seemed like complete bullshit?
If after the Smallville battle, when the army and Superman get wa stogether and hatch the singularity plan
What would your reaction have been if at that point Superman got quiet, lowered his head in thought for a few seconds and then suddenly announced.
"Wait! I think Zod's attitude can be changed. I feel that there is still a good man in there and I think I can reach him and together we will find a use for the codex that both honors Krypton and serves earth" And all the army people, and Lois, nod in agreement .
Would you have felt that Superman's feelings in that instance had been earned by Zod's actions in the film prior to that? Would you feel "yeah, he's obviously a good person because Superman just said he felt it...hopefully Superman can save him"?
Go a step further and when Superman tries and fails to convince Zod, they have a big contentious battle. Zod gets seriously injured and the Kryptonian Nazi doctor steps up finish Superman off and is seconds away from killing him when Zod suddenly has a change of heart and saves Superman by killing his Kryptonian compatriot - a person whose life's goals and life experience were much more similar to his Zod's than Zod's was to Kal's.
Would you have found that turn of events satisfying? Justified? Earned?
Or would it have seemed like complete bullshit?
Considering these are two separate universes, what Kal-El would be doing is expressing an opinion, a thought, not a feeling. Kal-El wasn't using the Force in your example. What Luke can do is actually feel what Vader is feeling. Yes, the Force is a plot device, but so what, it works within the context of Star Wars. Had Man of Steel established a similar concept, and this was the third movie with Zod, and Zod was really Kal-El's father, or whatever, it might work. But you're comparing apples to oranges here.
#262
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Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
This is probably my favorite--and most creative--review of this movie so far:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hPKIEuy2KE8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
If you're not familiar with his work, he's the same guy that did What if Episode I was good?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hPKIEuy2KE8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
If you're not familiar with his work, he's the same guy that did What if Episode I was good?
#263
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Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Speaking to Fox Business Channel, Grae Drake, editor of Rotten Tomatoes, expressed dismay over the critical reception, stating, "As much as I love and respect our critics at Rotten Tomatoes, I've got to say I am shocked. Listen, the movie’s not perfect but... I just cannot fathom it. It was a good movie, you guys."[116]
#265
Member
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
I wonder what movies down the line will be liked that weren't so liked initially that are recent releases. Plenty of films in the past weren't very well liked until years later. I keep reading how movies like Empire and Temple of Doom weren't liked much by many critics way back when.
#266
Member
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
This is probably my favorite--and most creative--review of this movie so far:
If you're not familiar with his work, he's the same guy that did What if Episode I was good?
If you're not familiar with his work, he's the same guy that did What if Episode I was good?
#267
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
I wonder what movies down the line will be liked that weren't so liked initially that are recent releases. Plenty of films in the past weren't very well liked until years later. I keep reading how movies like Empire and Temple of Doom weren't liked much by many critics way back when.
Temple of Doom was one of those movies I convinced myself I loved, but as they years wore on, I had to admit more and more about it annoys the hell out of me.
The main film I can recall getting terrible reviews, as well as not be very impressed with myself at the time, was the Thing. In '82 it seemed like a not much more than a gratuitous-to the point of tedious-exercise in gooey gore effects. At the time it felt like whatever momentum the film had stopped so we could get the horror spfx equivalent of a musical number- and then after that bit was over, the slight narrative resumed.
For some reason though, that film plays much better now- and even I enjoy it quite a bit.
Blade Runner from that same summer was of course another one that was actively hated at the time. But that was due to the studio marketing it as a very different film than it was (all the ads played up the Raiders/Alien pedigrees)
I see a lot of similar (negative) qualities in MoS to The Thing, which makes me wonder if future reaction to it will be more like the latter- although that film was nowhere near as polarizing as this one.
#268
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Seriously, some of you need to go out and get laid.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IRuuF-5ZST8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/IRuuF-5ZST8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
#269
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Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Ok, I'm going to try to frame this problem in a a way more germane to an MoS thread.
If after the Smallville battle, when the army and Superman get together and hatch the singularity plan
What would your reaction have been if at that point Superman got quiet, lowered his head in thought for a few seconds and then suddenly announced.
"Wait! I think Zod's attitude can be changed. I feel that there is still a good man in there and I think I can reach him and together we will find a use for the codex that both honors Krypton and serves earth" And all the army people, and Lois, nod in agreement .
Would you have felt that Superman's feelings in that instance had been earned by Zod's actions in the film prior to that? Would you feel "yeah, he's obviously a good person because Superman just said he felt it...hopefully Superman can save him"?
Go a step further and when Superman tries and fails to convince Zod, they have a big contentious battle. Zod gets seriously injured and the Kryptonian Nazi doctor steps up finish Superman off and is seconds away from killing him when Zod suddenly has a change of heart and saves Superman by killing his Kryptonian compatriot - a person whose life's goals and life experience were much more similar to his Zod's than Zod's was to Kal's.
Would you have found that turn of events satisfying? Justified? Earned?
Or would it have seemed like complete bullshit?
If after the Smallville battle, when the army and Superman get together and hatch the singularity plan
What would your reaction have been if at that point Superman got quiet, lowered his head in thought for a few seconds and then suddenly announced.
"Wait! I think Zod's attitude can be changed. I feel that there is still a good man in there and I think I can reach him and together we will find a use for the codex that both honors Krypton and serves earth" And all the army people, and Lois, nod in agreement .
Would you have felt that Superman's feelings in that instance had been earned by Zod's actions in the film prior to that? Would you feel "yeah, he's obviously a good person because Superman just said he felt it...hopefully Superman can save him"?
Go a step further and when Superman tries and fails to convince Zod, they have a big contentious battle. Zod gets seriously injured and the Kryptonian Nazi doctor steps up finish Superman off and is seconds away from killing him when Zod suddenly has a change of heart and saves Superman by killing his Kryptonian compatriot - a person whose life's goals and life experience were much more similar to his Zod's than Zod's was to Kal's.
Would you have found that turn of events satisfying? Justified? Earned?
Or would it have seemed like complete bullshit?
#270
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Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
No. That would have dumb. Zod's mentality as a skeleton frame isn't bad. It's just the meat in that frame that doesn't jive well.
#272
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Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
There are so many eye rolling moments in this mess of a movie that a drinking game should be made out of it. I thought nobody could do style over substance like Michael Bay, but Snyder proved me wrong.
#273
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
Sounds about right to me given the near split down the middle in opinions about the film.
This film reminded me of The Matrix Revolutions in terms of over the top action and noise, as well as two basically indestructible people just pounding each other over and over and over. Matrix Revolutions was rated 36% on RT.
So be happy. It's rated better than Matrix Revolutions.
This film reminded me of The Matrix Revolutions in terms of over the top action and noise, as well as two basically indestructible people just pounding each other over and over and over. Matrix Revolutions was rated 36% on RT.
So be happy. It's rated better than Matrix Revolutions.
#274
Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
56% is a perfect rating for MOS.
The movie is 50/50...you either hate it or love it.
I personally am in between. It's a nice action flick but it's missing that goosebumps feeling I got from Superman 1978 and Superman II.
What a shame that they couldn't make Cavill charm us with some inspiring scenes. Something cool like saving a lady then he smiles etc Or catching a massive rooftop from a building to save some people then the crowd thanks him and he looks back and smiles and waves. Something that makes you want to applaud at Superman.
I didn't give two shits when he took off flying for the first time. I gave a lesser shit when he saved Lois Lane from falling off the ship.
There was no inspiring Superman scenes.
All we got was a dark Superman that is quite serious. It didn't leave any good memorable moments behind that were Super heroic!
All I remember is Pa Kent waving at Kent. That was the only memorable moment that was touching.
The movie is 50/50...you either hate it or love it.
I personally am in between. It's a nice action flick but it's missing that goosebumps feeling I got from Superman 1978 and Superman II.
What a shame that they couldn't make Cavill charm us with some inspiring scenes. Something cool like saving a lady then he smiles etc Or catching a massive rooftop from a building to save some people then the crowd thanks him and he looks back and smiles and waves. Something that makes you want to applaud at Superman.
I didn't give two shits when he took off flying for the first time. I gave a lesser shit when he saved Lois Lane from falling off the ship.
There was no inspiring Superman scenes.
All we got was a dark Superman that is quite serious. It didn't leave any good memorable moments behind that were Super heroic!
All I remember is Pa Kent waving at Kent. That was the only memorable moment that was touching.
#275
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Re: Man of Steel (Snyder, 2013) — The Reviews Thread (Part II)
What a shame that they couldn't make Cavill charm us with some inspiring scenes. Something cool like saving a lady then he smiles etc Or catching a massive rooftop from a building to save some people then the crowd thanks him and he looks back and smiles and waves. Something that makes you want to applaud at Superman.


What cheesy bullshit.