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Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

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Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Old 11-19-12, 10:03 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

I think it's best to think of the Casino Royale Trilogy as a full reboot that gets Bond to approximately the same place he was at the beginning of Dr. No.

The casting of Judi Dench muddles things, but you can think of her character as two separate M's. The first (Brosnan years) inherited Bond and the relationship is more adversarial, the second (Craig years) recruited him and the relationship is markedly different.
Old 11-19-12, 10:09 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

I've always thought of 007 as a title, and each actor playing James Bond is a different person. How else do you explain an agent going through the Cold War and still being alive during modern times? This is why I didn't really like how they went into Bond's past in Skyfall.
Old 11-19-12, 10:20 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Caught the IMAX screening yesterday -- thought it was great. Loved the nods to the old movies. I think this surpasses Casino Royale for me.
Old 11-19-12, 10:28 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

You guys, it's simple. Bond is like Batman, or Spider-Man, or any long-running character. They live through events that are specific to certain time periods, but aren't actually tied to any of those time periods.

Also, Casino Royale was a reboot, so the fact that we're now in the same basic setup as the later Bond films doesn't mean that these movies are directly connected. Dr. No through Die Another Day is one continuity. Casino Royale and on is another continuity, and since the audience and filmmakers all live in the same reality, the filmmakers at times might make nods to the old continuity.
Old 11-19-12, 10:33 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Groucho
I think it's best to think of the Casino Royale Trilogy as a full reboot that gets Bond to approximately the same place he was at the beginning of Dr. No.

The casting of Judi Dench muddles things, but you can think of her character as two separate M's. The first (Brosnan years) inherited Bond and the relationship is more adversarial, the second (Craig years) recruited him and the relationship is markedly different.
Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
I've always thought of 007 as a title, and each actor playing James Bond is a different person. How else do you explain an agent going through the Cold War and still being alive during modern times? This is why I didn't really like how they went into Bond's past in Skyfall.
Yeah Dench being the only one from the originals throws it for me. Otherwise I could easily accept everything as a prequel.

Or like Davey says Bond is a title, not a man.

Or I am over thinking also. Unfortunately as a comic book reader I am a slave to continuity
Old 11-19-12, 10:40 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Comic books are the worst for continuity. Anytime a new writer doesn't like something, they change it and retcon.
Old 11-19-12, 10:56 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

OK.

So we're not supposed to dwell on continuity -

BUT - How are we supposed to figure in the appearance of the Aston Martin?


Did Daniel Craig experience the events of GOLDFINGER?

No.

But between Quantum of Solace and Skyfall, we're supposed to believe he's been on several missions already and has since inherited his Aston Martin somewhere in the Daniel Craig timeframe. Not the Sean Connery/Roger Moore timeframe.


THAT'S why we should forget timelines and continuity when watching a JAMES BOND movie.
Old 11-19-12, 11:01 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Like any Bond movie, just sit back and enjoy the ride. I barely expect continuity to hold between Bond movies with the same actor, let alone Bond movies with different actors. The fact that Moore's Bond visits Tracy's grave at the opening of For Your Eyes Only is mainly just a nice nod to OHMSS, not some kind of deep, meaningful connection between the two films.
Old 11-19-12, 11:04 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Also mentioned in Diamonds Are Forever, the whole opening sequence was Bond getting revenge for Tracy.
Old 11-19-12, 11:05 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

That's the problem with the new Bond films being so good. It's easy to dismiss movies like Moonraker as fluffy entertainment, but when the quality reaches that point, you have to look at certain things with a more critical eye. It's the reason TDKR got ripped apart, because Nolan set the bar so high with the first two movies, but somehow there are people on the internet that defend Daredevil.
Old 11-19-12, 11:14 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

I'm one of the "minority" that prefers the over-the-top campy Bond to the serious Bond.

I'd rather sit through a laser gun battle! a fall from an airplane without any parachute! a battle with a rubber anaconda!

rather than

watch a couple of thespians spew melodramatic dialogue while staring out the window, waiting for the villain to arrive.
Old 11-19-12, 11:56 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Supermallet
Like any Bond movie, just sit back and enjoy the ride. I barely expect continuity to hold between Bond movies with the same actor, let alone Bond movies with different actors. The fact that Moore's Bond visits Tracy's grave at the opening of For Your Eyes Only is mainly just a nice nod to OHMSS, not some kind of deep, meaningful connection between the two films.
It's the curse of being a movie buff. We want our movie series to be tightly connected but it can hinder our enjoyment of a movie because so and so happened here but two movies ago, they said it happened over there. Stuff like this used to bother the shit out of me when I was younger but as I get older, I try to take it on movie by movie. Plus, I guess I just don't have the time to ponder where Daniel Craig's Bond fits in and try to play connect the dots. I smiled when the Aston Martin showed up, didn't think about its place in the series and nothing more. I was just happy that I got to see a great movie while my parents watched the kids so that I didn't have to take it out on them later on.

P.S.-When I say them, I mean the kids. of course.
Old 11-19-12, 11:56 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

One critic mentioned that "serious Bond" is a great palate cleanser, but too many of them could destroy the franchise. It's a valid argument, though the financial success of Skyfall is tough to argue.
Old 11-19-12, 11:59 AM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by jeffkjoe
OK.

So we're not supposed to dwell on continuity -

BUT - How are we supposed to figure in the appearance of the Aston Martin?


Did Daniel Craig experience the events of GOLDFINGER?

No.
But the Aston Martin was destroyed in Goldfinger (after being thwarted by a mirror, lol).

The car was clearly the same car... down to the ejector seat button.

Ouch, mah brain.

Just say to yourself... it's just a popcorn movie... it's just a popcorn movie... it's just a... ... ...
Old 11-19-12, 01:14 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Stop looking for continuity between the different James Bonds. There REALLY isn't any. I promise you.

People straining themselves trying to connect the dots between the movies are coming off like a bunch of Annie Wilkes...
Old 11-19-12, 01:25 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Here's my take on the Aston Martin. It was "standard issue" for agents back in the 1960's. Bond is a buff for MI-6 history, and managed to get a hold of one and restore it. M was, perhaps, a junior agent at the time and was familiar with the particulars of the car. Q also makes a reference to "exploding pens", so perhaps in this reboot continuity all of the gadgets etc that Q branch built for Bond over the years were still built -- just for other agents.
Old 11-19-12, 01:40 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Last night I watched FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE for the first time in a decade. (And this is a movie I saw at least 20 times in theaters from 1965-1972.) And it was the first time I noticed the references to Dr. No in the conversation with the head man of SPECTRE. (Never i.d.'d and only seen from behind and in closeups of his hands with that friggin' cat, and his first appearance in a Bond film.) I don't recall any other references to earlier movies in the early Bonds (i.e. pre-Roger Moore).
Old 11-19-12, 03:00 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RobLutter
But the Aston Martin was destroyed in Goldfinger...

No it wasn't. It simply crashed into a brick wall. Racers flip over cars all the time that are then still salvageable. The cost to fix up and give the Martin a new paint job must be chump change for MI6.
Old 11-19-12, 03:00 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Also Sylvia Trench, the girl who surprises Bond in his apartment in Dr. No, is the "old case" he's working on at the beginning of From Russia With Love.
Old 11-19-12, 03:05 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RichC2
One critic mentioned that "serious Bond" is a great palate cleanser, but too many of them could destroy the franchise. It's a valid argument, though the financial success of Skyfall is tough to argue.
Here's the thing, it's not about serious vs. camp. It's about good versus bad. Moonraker is arguably the campiest Bond, but it's a hell of a lot more enjoyable than Quantum of Solace, which is an overtly serious, but not very good, Bond outing.
Old 11-19-12, 03:08 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Am I the only one who enjoyed Quantum of Solace? I think it's underrated and Casino Royale is overrated. They're both enjoyable Bond movies with their own flaws. QoS has iffy editing at times, and CR has a final act that really drags.
Old 11-19-12, 03:11 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum
Last night I watched FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE for the first time in a decade. (And this is a movie I saw at least 20 times in theaters from 1965-1972.) And it was the first time I noticed the references to Dr. No in the conversation with the head man of SPECTRE. (Never i.d.'d and only seen from behind and in closeups of his hands with that friggin' cat, and his first appearance in a Bond film.) I don't recall any other references to earlier movies in the early Bonds (i.e. pre-Roger Moore).

In FRWL Bond bangs some nameless brunette that we first see in Dr. No in one of its opening scenes.
Old 11-19-12, 03:18 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

I saw this the other night and I thought it was great. I really enjoyed it.

Some info about the Aston Martin DB5:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8Ng85cSA2t8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Old 11-19-12, 03:30 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

I think that like The Dark Knight Rises, this has the fundamental problem of trying to actually be critical of institutions and inject some moral ambiguity into things, but is ultimately hamstrung by necessary conventions. So we have good questions-why does M trade Silva's life so he can be raped and tortured, is there are dark side to MI6, is Bond fighting for a cause which is highly morally dubious, why should he still work for M after she not only tried to have him killed for the drive he could've gotten back, why did she send him off when she knew he wasn't ready, etc. But ultimately, because in the end, 007 must defeat the bad guys, we're left with "Yeah, well, we're bad wiretapping people who're a threat, but you need us!" Still, the craftsmanship was simply superb, The Bond movie always have high production values, but Roger Deakins takes into another level. I'm no proponent of digital over film, but damn if this wasn't a compelling argument, it was absolutely gorgeous. I saw this in IMAX (Well, LIEMAX, but my real IMAX screen wasn't showing it, I've still never forgiven myself for blowing the chance to see DKR in IMAX when I had a perfectly viable chance), and you should too. The cinematography is stunning, the Shanghai sequences look like something out of a Wong Kar-Wai film with a touch of Michael Mann. It's simply a gorgeous looking packing. Like Quantum of Solace, this is probably as close as the Bond franchise will ever get to a so-called "auteur" director. It might be muddled subtextually, but it sure is gorgeous looking. Love the new Q, for some reason it reminds me of the BBC's Sherlock. If Bond doesn't have gadgets anymore, well, the world is so technologically advanced now that we all do. Mercifully, Mendes tones down Forester's incomprehensible flash-cutting and shaky cam, and if this has less action, well it's quality over quantity and the finale literally brings down the house.

Originally Posted by WeylandYutani
No it wasn't. It simply crashed into a brick wall. Racers flip over cars all the time that are then still salvageable. The cost to fix up and give the Martin a new paint job must be chump change for MI6.
Isn't Casino Royale a straight reboot anyway?

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
I've always thought of 007 as a title, and each actor playing James Bond is a different person. How else do you explain an agent going through the Cold War and still being alive during modern times? This is why I didn't really like how they went into Bond's past in Skyfall.
I liked it because it was actually a pretext to some sort of character development, Bond, long as cypher, is finally given a reason for what he does and who he is, at least to some extent. There's really no logical timeline to the 007 films like there isn't for the Zelda games, and if you try to figure it out, it'll drive you nuts.
Old 11-19-12, 03:31 PM
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Re: Skyfall (Mendes, 2012) — The Double-O Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by WeylandYutani
In FRWL Bond bangs some nameless brunette that we first see in Dr. No in one of its opening scenes.
That would be Sylvia Trench, played by the lovely Eunice Gayson. She was the closest thing to a serious girlfriend Bond ever had in those movies. She was also meant to be a recurring character but was dropped after FRWL.

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