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Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

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Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Old 12-06-15, 01:43 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

It's an enjoyable film. I honestly think that there's been a lot of Internet revisionism on how bad it supposedly is. Maybe not quite as good as the first two films but the way some people like to make it out you'd think it was a terrible film or something which it most certainly isn't. If the first two films are solid A's I'd still give Return of the Jedi a strong B. It has some weaker elements but it in no way is a bad film.
Old 12-06-15, 02:16 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

A B- TOPS cuz it has some really fucking good scenes.

It's not a terrible film. It's just not the film that we should have gotten coming off of ESB. Not even in quality. Just in some of the ingredients.
Old 12-06-15, 02:16 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mike86
It's an enjoyable film. I honestly think that there's been a lot of Internet revisionism on how bad it supposedly is. Maybe not quite as good as the first two films but the way some people like to make it out you'd think it was a terrible film or something which it most certainly isn't. If the first two films are solid A's I'd still place Return of the Jedi around a B.
Here's the thing- ROTJ is not a standalone film. It ONLY exists to be the resolving act of a three part story in which SW and ESB are the first two acts. Therefore you can't really evaluate it's quality as a film without judging how well it resolves the material that has been established. And taken on that criteria, the film is ....not good.

I'm always pissing in the wind here on this subject.

All I can say is go read Brad Birds forward to the Making of Return Of The Jedi book. The guy knows a little about storytelling and his reaction as a teen walking out of the film in '83 was EXACTLY the same one that I had.
He goes on (briefly) to check off all the things we should have seen in the film, but didn't- character behavior, established conflict resolutions- not set pieces. And not only that, we see these characters behaving in direct contradiction to what we should be seeing.

Then you can go on and read the snatches of story conference transcripts where Kasden's frustration- at how foolishly Lucas is steering the material- is amusingly obvious. With each conference, the story goes further and further down the crapper until pretty much all of the consistent characterization has been stripped away and we are left with empty action figures who seem to have little connection to the players in the first two film- apart from being essayed by the same actors and parroting similar 'call back' lines periodically.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 12-06-15 at 02:31 PM.
Old 12-06-15, 02:28 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Yeah I know that it has problems. I guess I just can still enjoy it for what it is despite its imperfections.
Old 12-06-15, 02:38 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mike86
Yeah I know that it has problems. I guess I just can still enjoy it for what it is despite its imperfections.
And that's fine. Your enjoyment is yours. I love some films that are crap. And I know they are. RotJ isn't crap per se but... it's a very flawed thing that betrays what was set up before it. As a narrative, it's so wrong in what it did in a lot of things. Yet... it pumped out some amazing scenes too.
Old 12-06-15, 02:51 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I really wish ROTJ was the film that so many devoted fans want to believe it is.
I wish you guys (and myself) had gotten a resolving chapter that deserved 30+ years of fervent love and devotion. Something that would have been an amazing experience when you saw it at the theater as an eight year old, but that had layers you could only unfold and understand with advancing life experience- instead of being a film you need to regress back to being an eight year old to feel the wonder of.

It will be interesting to see if Kasden's frustration in '81 will translate into this being an opportunity to pull the material back to it's original trajectory. Or if it's just going to be another endless series of "remember when you first saw this? Well look how much more impressive it is now with 21st century technology!"
Old 12-06-15, 04:38 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Kinzler's ROTJ book is highly recommended - really enlightening as to what could have been. All of them are great, actually, but ROTJ is particularly well done.
Old 12-06-15, 05:35 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Anyone starting to think Han isn't going to die? Harrison Ford said himself he's glad he wasn't killed off now. Like the post above. I doubt they would waste No Luke and Han moment. Not saying Han will make it through all of them, but...
Old 12-06-15, 05:45 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Chrisedge
Anyone starting to think Han isn't going to die? Harrison Ford said himself he's glad he wasn't killed off now. Like the post above. I doubt they would waste No Luke and Han moment. Not saying Han will make it through all of them, but...
as much as I don't want to see it, I'm more and more convinced that he's a goner... maybe Chewie too.
Old 12-06-15, 06:04 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

At first I thought Han wouldn't make it through the film but I'm not sure I'm convinced. It almost seems too obvious and like something people would expect the filmmakers to do. I think he'll probably pass at some point during the new trilogy but I'm not sure it'll be this film.
Old 12-06-15, 06:05 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I don't care if he does or doesn't.

I don't think he will. But I can see it happening.

All i care about is that it's a good movie. Movie deaths for beloved characters are hard things to do right. I could see Kasdan making right with it though.
Old 12-06-15, 06:08 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

While Ford might legitimately be happy he's back in the role, I have a feeling the only reason he agreed to do this movie is if they killed Han. I just don't see him wanting to continue with the franchise beyond helping the re-launch. Besides, it's pretty obvious this story is about the new characters.

ROTJ thoughts: I really liked the movie as a six year old. However, even at that age I thought some of the plot seemed a bit off. The biggest one was how many coincidences had to fall into place for Luke to successfully rescue Han. That had to be the most convoluted rescue plan in history. Also, the whole idea of Luke and Leia being twins was a cop out end to what could have been an intriguing story. Still, it is a fun time.
Old 12-06-15, 06:46 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I think what could happen is that Han makes it through The Force Awakens but dies early on in Episode VIII. That way he's back enough to please the fanboys by being in a full film, gets some time on screen with Luke in the next film (if it's true that Luke isn't in the new film much), and the new audience that haven't seen the Original Trilogy possibly get a chance to be more attached to him so that when he does die it has more impact rather than just being the old guy that dies by the end of the new film.

I don't think the idea of Luke and Leia being twins is that horrible other than the fact that she kissed him twice. There's at least two hints in The Empire Strikes Back that Leia is the other Force sensitive hope for the Jedi (Yoda's line about there being another and Leia sensing Luke is in trouble through the Force seemingly and directing Lando to go back to look for him) and I don't think the revelation in Return of the Jedi is as much of a cop out as some do.

Last edited by Mike86; 12-06-15 at 06:57 PM.
Old 12-06-15, 06:57 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mike86;12663823
I don't think the idea of Luke and Leia being twins is that horrible other than the fact that she kissed him twice. There's at least two hints at it in [B
The Empire Strikes Back[/B] (Yoda's line about there being another and Leia sensing Luke is in trouble through the Force seemingly and directing Lando to go back to look for him) and I don't think the revelation in Return of the Jedi is as much of a cop out as some do.
Yet you do think the idea of an aged Bruce Wayne whose employees have died not acting like a playboy at a public gathering is a bad thing.
Old 12-06-15, 07:05 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I think Chewie is a goner. There's even a scene in one of the trailers that seems to show Rey crying over something brown and furry.
Old 12-06-15, 07:47 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Tom Banjo
I think Chewie is a goner. There's even a scene in one of the trailers that seems to show Rey crying over something brown and furry.
maybe her first lesbian experience?
Old 12-06-15, 08:12 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Han and Chewie need to go out Butch and Sundance style.
Old 12-06-15, 08:14 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Tom Banjo
There's even a scene in one of the trailers that seems to show Rey crying over something brown and furry.
I'm damn near positive that's Finn. You see the sleeve of his tan jacket on the left. I think what people are seeing as hair (on the right over his head) are actually branches in the background. There are similar braches on the left, over what looks like his elbow.



Anyway, I'm sure Chewie will be safe. No reason to kill off a beloved character that only requires a tall guy in a suit to play him. While I'm glad Mayhew is back, I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference between him and the stand-in.
Old 12-06-15, 08:19 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I actually think that Luke is already dead and that he died sometime ago. I think we will see him here in there like we did Obi Wan.
Old 12-06-15, 08:28 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by joe_b
I'm damn near positive that's Finn. You see the sleeve of his tan jacket on the left. I think what people are seeing as hair (on the right over his head) are actually branches in the background. There are similar braches on the left, over what looks like his elbow.



Anyway, I'm sure Chewie will be safe. No reason to kill off a beloved character that only requires a tall guy in a suit to play him. While I'm glad Mayhew is back, I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference between him and the stand-in.
Could be the scene from the trailers where Finn is fighting Kylo, but then gets his ass kicked, only for Rey to pick up the light saber and go all Jedi on Kylo's ass.
Old 12-06-15, 08:42 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

^ From the bright light on her face, I'm guessing this is post-duel and the rescue party has just showed up to save them.

People magazine has been releasing tidbits from their Force Awakens issue: First, Abrams confirms there will be no mid or post-credits scene (of course). Second, Andy Serkis clarifies the appearance of Snoke. He's not nearly as tall as Empire magazine inferred in their article.

Spoiler:
The character is about 7 feet tall, not 25.
Old 12-06-15, 09:57 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Looked at the ESB soundtrack. Imperial March and Train g of a Jedi Knight / Magic Tree are great. Anyone have other favorites from the ESB soundtrack?

I had thought Rey built BB-8 herself but the RUMORED soundtrack listing (Re meets BB-8) seems to suggest that she didn't build him.
Old 12-06-15, 10:44 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

^ "Yoda's Theme" is amazing. I rewatched ESB this morning and was reminded why it's still my favorite movie of all time. So many feels...
Old 12-06-15, 10:47 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Chrisedge
Anyone starting to think Han isn't going to die? Harrison Ford said himself he's glad he wasn't killed off now.
He's happy because he'll make millions off the new movie.
Old 12-07-15, 01:17 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mike86
It's an enjoyable film. I honestly think that there's been a lot of Internet revisionism on how bad it supposedly is. Maybe not quite as good as the first two films but the way some people like to make it out you'd think it was a terrible film or something which it most certainly isn't. If the first two films are solid A's I'd still give Return of the Jedi a strong B. It has some weaker elements but it in no way is a bad film.
Absolutely spot on post. I have a feeling if they'd gone in a different direction than the Ewoks people wouldn't be complaining much at all about Jedi.

The opening in Jabba's palace is one of my favorite segments of the trilogy. The stuff on Endor not involving the Ewoks was awesome too.

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