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Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

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Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Old 12-25-15, 05:45 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
I think it must eat at him to know that fanboys are likely going to love this film more than any of the entries from the Prequel Trilogy and that the film was done in a way that deviates from his vision...
Even if his vision has shifted, changed or evolved, it can't be much fun to have somewhat plotted out the last three films, and then discover that three (entirely) different ones are being made.

I presume most authors would also be unhappy if their storylines, direction and notes were ignored when someone else took over their story... particularly if the story was leading pointedly in a particular direction to a particular conclusion - that may now be ignored in favour of other ideas.

Not to defend him per se, but I can understand his view.
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Old 12-26-15, 02:06 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by ntnon View Post
Even if his vision has shifted, changed or evolved, it can't be much fun to have somewhat plotted out the last three films, and then discover that three (entirely) different ones are being made.

I presume most authors would also be unhappy if their storylines, direction and notes were ignored when someone else took over their story... particularly if the story was leading pointedly in a particular direction to a particular conclusion - that may now be ignored in favour of other ideas.

Not to defend him per se, but I can understand his view.

True, but he's not really helping his image in recent interviews where he comes off sounding a bit butt hurt (when asked about the new films). He willingly parted ways with his legacy/vision. I mean, he's been on thin ice with fans since the SE's came out.

While I'm grateful for what he gave us with the OT, he's got 4 billion reasons to be grateful and gracious.
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Old 12-26-15, 02:57 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Star Wars: The Force Awakens was originally called Shadow of the Empire
Looks like they used the old book title for awhile before changing it.
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Old 12-26-15, 03:10 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy View Post
While I'm grateful for what he gave us with the OT, he's got 4 billion reasons to be grateful and gracious.
Exactly. He was paid an obscene amount of money in exchange for relinquishing his vision.
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Old 12-26-15, 03:28 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
Exactly. He was paid an obscene amount of money in exchange for relinquishing his vision.
The full interview with Lucas was on Charlie Rose the other and the question of the Sequel Trilogy came up.

Lucas said he had begun writing the ST and was ready to do another Trilogy when Bob Iger approached him and made him with an offer he couldn't refuse.

The split came when he turned in his outline and they said they wanted it more in the spirit of the OT and Lucas didn't want any part of it so they divorced.

If you read between the lines Lucas constantly talked about Darth Vader throughout the interview and never mentioned Luke Skywalker once. It sounds like he wanted the ST to be about Kylo Ren in more of the tone of the PT and Anakin Skywalker while obviously Disney wanted Rey as the hero.

Can I just say thank god Lucas sold as I didn't want another damn Trilogy of characters I couldn't root for along with that staunchy tone of the PT? The man has truly forgotten what made SW great.
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Old 12-26-15, 03:46 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

It's so weird.

Has anyone actually and literally asked him on why he's no longer that man from the past? I mean, this guy helped out Kurosawa in getting Kagemusha done, created Indy and SW, cared about film history and restoration.

Lucas now pretty much cares not w/ promoting his films the way they were and has pretty much deleted the originals from consumers in modern formats.

Young Lucas would have been freaking the fuck out w/ how Old Lucas is doing this. Did shit really change w/ the RotJ production? Did it just become money concentrated to the point where he is now?

Listening to Lucas talk about thematic elements in the PT during production is insane. The man seriously doesn't see how failed it is.
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Old 12-26-15, 04:05 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by coli View Post
The score was a bit underwhelming as there is usually one theme that is memorable like Duel of Fates was to the terrible TPM movie. I wonder if JJ pushed a more subtle score so it doesn't define the movie, where Lucas always wanted the music to define each scene as he looked at it more as a space opera. I haven't seen much of JJ's previous movies, but are all his scores more subtle like TFA?
I didn't think of it, but this makes sense. I think it is safe to say Lucas has said he wanted Star Wars to play as a silent film would (as far as communicating thematic messages visually and musically). Unless he changed his mind again.
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Old 12-26-15, 04:06 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Solid Snake View Post
It's so weird.

Has anyone actually and literally asked him on why he's no longer that man from the past? I mean, this guy helped out Kurosawa in getting Kagemusha done, created Indy and SW, cared about film history and restoration.

Lucas now pretty much cares not w/ promoting his films the way they were and has pretty much deleted the originals from consumers in modern formats.

Young Lucas would have been freaking the fuck out w/ how Old Lucas is doing this. Did shit really change w/ the RotJ production? Did it just become money concentrated to the point where he is now?

Listening to Lucas talk about thematic elements in the PT during production is insane. The man seriously doesn't see how failed it is.
Wasn't he a staunch critic of Turner colorizing movies?
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Old 12-26-15, 04:49 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by SmackDaddy View Post
True, but he's not really helping his image in recent interviews where he comes off sounding a bit butt hurt (when asked about the new films). He willingly parted ways with his legacy/vision. I mean, he's been on thin ice with fans since the SE's came out.

While I'm grateful for what he gave us with the OT, he's got 4 billion reasons to be grateful and gracious.
This. George has tried to play the woe is me I don't understand why the fans don't like me card too many times. He knows exactly the reason. He underdelivered on the Prequel Trilogy for one which was disappointing. Not everyone feels that way about those films but it didn't help his cause. Add to that the fact that he continues to make changes to the Original Trilogy while not offering up the original versions some of us want.

It would have been really simple to just release both but the fact that he's been so adamant about only releasing his versions of the films is by far what bothers me most about him. I've said many times that if he'd release the Original Trilogy in its original form in decent quality (not the bullshit releases from the 2006 DVD's) alongside whichever version he feels is the true version at that time I'd buy a set of everything including the prequels which I hate.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:16 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
I've said many times that if he'd release the Original Trilogy in its original form in decent quality (not the bullshit releases from the 2006 DVD's) alongside whichever version he feels is the true version at that time I'd buy a set of everything including the prequels which I hate.
What really kills me is that he claims the original masters are in such horrendous shape that it couldn't be done, but one look at the De-specialized Editions tell you he's been full of it the whole time.

A bunch of un-related non pros in different parts of the world were able to get it done for nothing but the love of the OT, yet Lucasfilm and it's bottomless pit of money couldn't...

BTW, caught FA for the fourth time today and wow, it just gets better with each viewing.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:37 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

If they can fix the Apu Trilogy... I'm sure the OT masters are fine.

The Apu films were burnt, crispy, scratched, warped, warbly, etc,

And they fixed it. The SW OT masters.... have no reason to be worse than that.
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Old 12-26-15, 05:49 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Not only that but the line of reasoning he's used about the negatives not existing or the process being too expensive has never made a lot of sense. The films were obviously remastered for the special editions so really they'd only have to omit the changes made and possibly remaster scenes affected by removing changes. On top of that there are definitely some people out there who have personal prints of the films who I'm sure would be willing to assist with a restoration if needed. It can be done and Lucas is full of shit saying it can't or is more trouble than its worth.
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Old 12-26-15, 07:14 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Wait. If the source material was so far gone/not existing what did they work with when creating the Special Editions?
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Old 12-26-15, 10:41 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I think he also insisted that the negatives were permanently altered for the Special Editions.
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Old 12-27-15, 12:04 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Maybe this has been discussed, but is there an explanation for how Luke's original blue light saber, the one that belonged to his father Anikan, is the light saber in The Force Awakins that Rey is ultimately is given/takes and fights Kylo Ren with?

That light saber was lost in Bespin when Vader cut off Luke's hand. Luke constructed a new green light saber, which he had in Return of the Jedi, and which looks totally different in design. Vader specifically points this out when Luke turns himself in on Endor.

I guess Luke eventually returned to Bespin just to look for his lost light saber?
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Old 12-27-15, 01:55 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

The alien said that it's a story for another time (about how she acquired it). Not sure there was any explanation beyond that.
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Old 12-27-15, 02:14 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
Wasn't he a staunch critic of Turner colorizing movies?
While making it clear I'm not (deliberately) defending Lucas' "tampering", I think there's a difference in SOMEONE attempting to revise/'fix'/update a film and THE CREATOR revising his film towards his (alleged) original intent.

The old masters revised, corrected, painted over and retroactively monkeyed about with many of the most famous paintings... I doubt Lucas sees what he has done any differently. Whereas adding colour to a film deliberately filmed in b&w is rarely (never?) done by the parties originally involved, and is far more symptomatic of a modern 'we know best' attitude rather than any attempt to meet original hopes and intentions.


(Note: "filmed in" in the sense of 'knowing the film was to be in b&w, decisions were made regarding lighting and composition' rather than necessarily the lack of colour being a deliberate choice. When colour wasn't an option, the vision may have desired it - but desired or not, it was knowingly set up and filmed as such. Hence, the chroma dots restoration of colour that has occasionally been done seems like a much more reasonable action than retroactively adding colour to films where it never was.)


Also: Yes, it would be very nice - and highly desired - to have the 'original' versions released commercially. But using the same lines of logic as above, that would likely be seen by Lucas as akin to releasing substandard sketches rather than 'finished' works. Some artists don't mind their sketches being seen; others adamantly resist, because it's the finished and approved product that is The Thing they want to be seen. (Plus the latent fear that people might prefer the un-'corrected:/un-'finished' versions! Which would be a kick in the teeth...)

Last edited by ntnon; 12-27-15 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 12-27-15, 02:39 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I'm not sure Lucas of old is any different from Lucas of today. Old Lucas had to deal with technical challenges, studio pressure and a whole bunch of nonsense to make the OT. And he had a lot of dedicated and talented people who were dealing with the same issues. By the time Jedi rolled around, he had the clout to do things his way...and that's the one where things started to go south.

And when it was time for the prequels, he basically had unlimited money and was surrounded by yes men. So I think what we got with the PT is what we would have gotten with the OT if he'd had the same influence at that time. He's got a great imagination, but he can't direct or write for shit when he's the only one calling the shots.
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Old 12-27-15, 04:35 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I really think his ex-wife kept him in line and checked him when he had his ideas that were essentially the reasons why the PT was so bad. It goes beyond having a bunch of yes men around you, it boils down to he didn't have the ball and chain to basically keep him from going to far in eating that yes men's praise for things that obviously weren't good.
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Old 12-27-15, 10:05 AM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by Jackskeleton View Post
I really think his ex-wife kept him in line and checked him when he had his ideas that were essentially the reasons why the PT was so bad. It goes beyond having a bunch of yes men around you, it boils down to he didn't have the ball and chain to basically keep him from going to far in eating that yes men's praise for things that obviously weren't good.
It wasn't his wife, it was episode IV & V producer Gary Kurtz, who kept Lucas on task and is hugely responsible for the tone of the first two movies.
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Old 12-27-15, 12:48 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

nton -- I figured somebody would trot out the "mine vs. theirs" point, and it is a legitimate one. However, Lucas states he was technically limited when he made his films but now he has the technology to perfect his vision. Weren't filmmakers just as technically limited by black and white before color? Maybe their visions were to have their films in color ...

I don't mind George tampering. In fact, I like the idea of taking another pass without doing an out-and-out remake. I do have an issue with destroying history though.

A podcast I listen to (Now Playing ... plug!) said Lucas only intended to revisit Star Wars (ANH) with his digital wizardry. When Fox saw the potential to re-release the other films ($$$), they offered to pay for the special editions of ESB and ROTJ. Lucas saw this as an opportunity to improve his digital effects processes (on somebody else's dime) in preparation for the prequels, so he jumped on it.
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Old 12-27-15, 12:53 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Originally Posted by ntnon View Post
Also: Yes, it would be very nice - and highly desired - to have the 'original' versions released commercially. But using the same lines of logic as above, that would likely be seen by Lucas as akin to releasing substandard sketches rather than 'finished' works. Some artists don't mind their sketches being seen; others adamantly resist, because it's the finished and approved product that is The Thing they want to be seen. (Plus the latent fear that people might prefer the un-'corrected:/un-'finished' versions! Which would be a kick in the teeth...)
That's not a valid analogy. Lucas released them as "finished and approved product" back in '77, '80 and '83, not as "sketches" that he did not approve to be released.
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Old 12-27-15, 12:58 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Lucas can do what he wants in terms of changes. That's never been the issue to me. It's that he absolutely refuses to release the original versions alongside his special edition versions that bothers me. It would be so easy to put both out.
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Old 12-27-15, 01:02 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

Add in that for a man that supposedly valued Film History... Lucas himself became someone he would have hated for tampering w/ film history.

The argument here could be that maybe... the special editions are the editions that were meant to be. But that doesn't jive either. Not w/ how things worked out w/ Lucas.

Again.. this guy supposedly valued the integrity of the film culture. W/ his own product he devalues the nature of film preservation and the history of film. It just doesn't make sense to me how he could be so goddamn clouded. I'm not even a fan of SW but I want those OT films as they were released. He's destroying film history and the integrity of it.
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Old 12-27-15, 01:40 PM
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (2015, Abrams) S: Hamill, Ford, Fisher

I don't believe Fox would even need his permission at this point to remaster and re-release the originals. Wouldn't they need Disney to give the ok?
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