Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

So you're cool with a movie about a woman who is descended from a Greek god, has bullet proof gauntlets and a rope that forces people to tell the truth, but a movie about a black female pilot in the '50s stretches credibility too far for you? Sounds like a case of selective credibility to me. Besides, I don't see why you're still harping on it, because you were proven clearly wrong about your assertions on black female pilots. Furthermore, do you demand every movie be completely historically accurate? I imagine you would hate most movies if that were the case.

I enjoyed the hell out of Ghostbusters, so I don't believe that making these decisions in advance, or even making these decisions with an agenda is an inherently negative thing. Some movies with an agenda will be bad, others good. Some movies without an agenda will be bad, others good. The presence or absence of an agenda isn't going to make or break a movie, the writing, directing, acting, editing etc. all have a much bigger impact.

The only reasonable thing I've seen you post about this so far is that you're less likely to see the movie because Secord isn't in it or isn't in most of it, because he was a big part of why you liked the original so much. That makes sense, and I know your argument there would be the same even if the replacement new character was also played by a white male, right?

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

All those franchises had to start somewhere! :) Why's it so wrong to try and create new properties, especially if the source material is there (which it is), and especially if they involve characters and actors from huge minority groups that make up large portions of the moviegoing population and who are apparently starving for representation in entertainment? Instead, they're just retooling old stuff yet again. Of course it might work out just fine, but considering all the moaning people do (even here on a regular basis) about how bereft of originality Hollywood has become, it's rather dismaying to see people full-on supporting such lazy, mollifying casting decisions that, in this particular case, really could downplay the daily injustices meted out to blacks and other American minorities during that era in the minds of younger viewers.

Meh, in the end, if The Rocketits or whatever looks interesting, I'll see it regardless (since who really knows where Dave Stevens would've taken the material had he not died), but I'll always wonder how much better it would be if were something based on some other unique and borderline original property that could still draw audiences from all walks of life.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

That would check off all the boxes! lol...

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Why not both? Why can't minority actors have more exposure in both established franchises and new properties? Are you complaining that there is a sequel at all to the Rocketeer? Is that your example of how Hollywood is bereft of creative ideas? Or is only the casting decision indicative of how they're creatively bereft?

Also, how do you know that this movie will downplay the daily injustices meted out to blacks in America? Maybe that's going to be a central theme in the movie, we don't know. All we know the race and gender of the new lead, which is enough to send some people into a tizzy.

As for your "Rocketits" comment, I hope that was a typo.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Well, she'd have to be half Native-American too, you know. :)

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Minority actors do have exposure in many established franchises, at least as far as I've seen, but big, new and potentially franchisable properties that put them front and center are few and far between, so they hardly have it both ways (although I'm hopeful that Black Panther becomes a franchise of its own). That involves risk and, well . . .


I don't think Hollywood is bereft of ideas at all. Far from it, and I really loathe it when people piss and moan that it is. That was very clear in my last post. I wasn't supporting it. I love Hollywood films. And I also think that there is a LOT of untapped material out there that might shut them up, but I doubt we'll ever see that when they just keep taking the easiest path to appease the special interests ("Here, we'll just give you this franchise that's already been made by white folks a few times already!"). But hey, risk . . .


I'll give you that. Which is in part why I said I'd probably see it anyway (ergo my mention of no one really knowing where Stevens would've taken the material). You couldn't cast a black actress, or an Asian, or whatever, without at least acknowledging the sociopolitical and cultural background from which she sprang.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

A black woman pilot? :lol:

This movie is already doomed.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

You guys are putting way too much thought into this, way more than the scriptwriters probably will.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

A black woman pilot wouldn't be that big if a deal today, but in 1945 it was just this side of impossible. (Highly improbable statistically, but a handful of them show that it was possible, if extremely difficult to achieve.)

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

You keep doubling down. Why is it impossible to think that this woman was one of those improbable black female pilots?

Why does that strain credibility but a farm boy on Tattooine being the son of the second most powerful man in the galaxy AND the brother of a princess from another planet who he meets by accident while trying to save her from their own father doesn't strain it? I mean, come on, you're grasping at straws here.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Not really.

You're comparing a movie with relatively low sci-fi or fantasy content (Rocketeer) with movies that are modern fantasy (Civil War) or total sci-fi fantasy (Star Wars).

The Rocketeer was very grounded in reality (or possible reality if the rocket pack were real).

I'm not big on change for change's sake. This change won't make the movie any better, so what's the point? To be politically correct? To serve an agenda?

The Rocketeer is supposed to be escapist fun, not social commentary.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Why can't it be both? Lots of escapist entertainment still has a core message.

All I'm seeing is you plugging your ears and saying "no no no" over and over. Why can't The Rocketeer be a vehicle for these sort of things? And given that we've established there were female pilots in that era, then why can't this new character be one of those? How does that strain the credulity of the film? The Rocketeer is still fiction, and pulpy fiction at that. It's not trying to be realistic, it's just trying to be fun.

You say you don't like changes for their own sake. But obviously the actor who played Secord was too old to anchor a direct sequel, so Disney is taking this approach. So why does it bother you who plays this brand new character? Is your objection that the sequel doesn't focus on Sexord, or is your objection that the new character isn't played by a white male?

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

The Prime Agenda...MAKE MONEY. Hit new audiences to generate new money. That's why they call it Show Business.

Wait, what? [/Gene Roddenberry]

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

No, mainstream films should NOT be used to further political agendas. I find that incredibly offensive. I don't need some fool who thinks he/she is more enlightened trying to preach their ideologies to me.

You will not find anything anywhere in what I wrote that espouses anything even close to the ridiculous claim you made here, so I will just leave it at that. But nice straw man.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

You're free not to see it, but there are tons of major mainstream films with political agendas. I see no reason why it must be off limits, except of course that RoboDad has proclaimed it to be an abomination upon the earth.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

What exactly is the "political agenda" in casting a black female as the lead?

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

If you are incapable of carrying on a discussion without including personal insults, you should not expect much in the way of courteous replies.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

If you make sweeping pronouncements about what movies should and should not be, don't be surprised if that is ridiculed. :shrug:

"That's offensive to me" isn't a reason not to make a movie. It's certainly a reason not to see a movie of course.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

When that black female replaces a white male lead for no improved storytelling reason. It's a politically correct move that doesn't make the movie any better.

Can the movie still be good? Absolutely. But the move isn't being made because someone had a great story idea that was better than anything that they could have come up with otherwise. It's being made because it's easier (safer) to be, "Inclusive," with an established property than a new one.

Of course, that lack of faith in women and, "People of color," is kind of insulting, but some people are cool with that.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

You seem to be implying that the movie is worse than if it had a white male lead. Because if it's not better or no worse, but the exact same quality, then there's no reason to complain.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

That black women have worth as human beings?

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Maybe she tried to join the Tuskegee Airmen but was rejected for being a woman? That'd be cool... finds the jetpack, saves the day in a battle, forms 'The Rocketeers."

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

A black female superhero movie has worked very well in the past. ;)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...man_poster.jpg

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

Agreed. Having a black woman as a pilot in a modern or futuristic setting is not a big deal. I'm all for having more women and people of color in movies.

She could be the daughter of one of the Tuskegee Airmen and works as a mechanic at an airport so she knows a bit about flying. That might be somewhat believable. But I don't see that having a wide appeal at the box office.

Re: The Rocketeers -- sequel/reboot
 

I remember Terry Gilliam relating an anecdote about a Nike commercial he made. I think he tells it on the supplement disc of Lost in La Mancha. The concept was going to be an old time baseball game, maybe 1920's or 1930's. Vintage uniforms and gear and baseball diamond. The Nike execs said, "You need to put 4 or 5 black guys on the team. Our demographic is urban." Gilliam was like, "But that's a complete pollution of history. You want historical, but you're lying." Later Spike Lee gave Gilliam some shit about the commercial and Gilliam was like, "My hands were tied the execs wanted this revisionist thing." Elvis Mitchel (a black dude) was leading the Q&A, and he said something along the lines of, "I'll never forgive you," but in a joking way.

Anyway this feels like that. They'll make her a black woman even if it's a complete revisionism of history.

Personally, the single thing I liked best about The Rocketeer was its 1930's depression-era California setting, meets art-deco opulence of Los Angeles. Anything outside of that era I'm not really interested in. I feel the same way about Krystal Skull.