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MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

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MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Old 05-09-18, 03:54 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
I saw that cutting off movies with no repeats saved them some money, but not nearly enough.

I think I saw a blurb that before the cutoff people were committing fraud by seeing something like Black Panther many times by checking in and letting their friends use their cards to see the movies. Those people would probably loan their friends the MP cards and the friends would log into their accounts on their smart phones. Probably also led to the ticket submission update.
I don't think the earnings report took into account how much they're spending after the no repeats policy, though it's mentioned as something that will save them money. So maybe it did stem the bleeding somewhat?

Yeah, I could see people loaning out their moviepass cards and not thinking anything of it (a lesser evil compared to, say, checking into a movie just for the points), I know I've been tempted to do that to let my wife see something when I'm not going (though instead we just got her a card through costco). I don't see how ticket submission would stop that, though the combination of the two definitely would. I still think it's more that Avengers came out and they would have gotten killed with (legitimate) repeat viewings.
Old 05-09-18, 03:59 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Ethics. Who needs 'em?!

There's a line in Simon Sinek's Leaders Eat Last that's always stuck with me: "My favorite definition of love is giving someone the power to destroy you and trusting they won't use it."

Give people the power to destroy Movie Pass and trust they won't use it.

You can trust me. Can I trust you?
Old 05-09-18, 04:01 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by story View Post
Ethics. Who needs 'em?!

There's a line in Simon Sinek's Leaders Eat Last that's always stuck with me: "My favorite definition of love is giving someone the power to destroy you and trusting they won't use it."

Give people the power to destroy Movie Pass and trust they won't use it.

You can trust me. Can I trust you?
You go to someplace like slickdeals and that's the majority of the "killer" deals is everyone jumping on some loophole and people instructing others how to take advantage.
Old 05-09-18, 04:05 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

People are giving their moviepass to friends to use? I wonder if our resident Moviepass scammers are doing that. Abob and Decker, are you guys scamming Moviepass that way as well, or just buying tickets to movies that you have no intention of seeing?

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
You go to someplace like slickdeals and that's the majority of the "killer" deals is everyone jumping on some loophole and people instructing others how to take advantage.
Slickdeals is nothing but scammers and resellers now.
Old 05-10-18, 12:24 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I know you guys think I'm just being a naysayer for fun and games but let's look at it this way: how much money do you think movie theaters would have to "share" with Movie Pass for this to be successful at this pricepoint? Let's be generous and say MP can make like 5 bucks a ticket off of their other ventures like selling your data and advertising and subscriptions. That's still 7 bucks a ticket. So you need the average moviegoer to spend enough money for the theater to make more than 7 bucks in profit each time, to give 7 bucks to Moviepass so they can break even (this is assuming that theaters make little to no money off of actual ticket sales and depend on concessions).

If more people are coming but they're costing you money, it's not really worth it. It's worth it now because Moviepass is the one bleeding money.

The one thing moviepass is doing is showing people that an all you can watch movie subscription is viable, and I'm sure theaters will do their own programs if/when they go away.
No itís a good discussion to have. Iím not saying that studios and theaters have a responsibility to make sure MP is viable, Iím still not sure if it is a viable endeavor. But the thing is they arenít even willing to sit at the table with them. They are totally shunning them as some sort of pariah with one hand while eagerly accepting their generous handout with the other.

MPs first phase is done getting a ton of subscribers and generating lots of publicity and they have shown that they can drastically move the needle when it comes to ticket sales. MP still has to make smart decisions to make business sense. Theyíve made refinements to the user base now itís up to the theaters and studios to see if they want to make more money or not.
Old 05-10-18, 12:41 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
The disruptive part of their service is the price. The debit card is a cool workaround, but largely unnecessary and fraught with problems (nobody is going to buy them for that technology). The one thing that got them all of these subscribers was the insane price. Sure, the data selling thing, the restaurants, the in app ads, all that stuff sounds nice to investors (I guess), but if they're doing it it's still in its infancy. But 10 bucks to see a movie a day? That's what brought everyone.

So let's look at the opposite. Say all the theater chains cut a deal with MoviePass, and Moviepass becomes huge. Like amazon huge. Like that's the first place people go when they want to see movies. What happens then? Well, what happened when places like TRU and Barnes and Noble outsourced their online stores to Amazon? Amazon got the marketshare, everyone got conditioned to shop for Amazon, and Amazon either dropped them like a rock or did some hard negotiations once they had the leverage. Hey you don't want to double the amount you're paying? Guess I'll funnel everyone to your competitor. Don't want to pay to advertise your movie? Maybe we'll cut your showings off. And they tried these strongarm tactics already, so it's not like I'm speculating here.

I'm not saying the business model wouldn't work, I'm just trying to explain why movie theaters, or at least the large ones, aren't falling over themselves trying to keep them around.
That is a good point too but not a great example. Those were examples of direct competitors. This is quite different in that MP is driving more business to that place. I still think the insurance example fits the bill. Or maybe like AAA where they drive business but consumers have a benefit for being ďin networkĒ in the form of a discount. Either way itís ridiculous how theaters are gloating about how much money theyíve made through no merit of their own.
Old 05-10-18, 08:38 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Looks like the end is near..

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/10/medi...ast/index.html

MoviePass sounds too good to be true. We may soon find out if it actually is.
The parent company, Helios and Matheson Analytics (HMNY), only has about $15.5 million cash on hand, plus another $27.9 million in accounts receivable, according to documents filed Tuesday with the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

Unless the movie subscription service can come up with more money, MoviePass might not be around for much longer. The firm said that it burns through about $21.7 million every month operating the service, which charges users $10 a month to see a movie every day.

"They appear to have enough cash to last two months," said Michael Pachter, an analyst for Wedbush Securities. "Sounds like a terrible business model to me, and I can't imagine that any sophisticated investors will view it differently."

So far, they don't appear to be. Shares of Helios and Matheson have been tanking for months, and stock prices fell even further this week. Shares are trading for less than a dollar, plunging 46% Wednesday.

Related: MoviePass brings back its movie-per-day subscription

The MoviePass model has drawn attention — and raised eyebrows — since it went public last August with its $10 price point.

In most places, that's just about the cost of a single movie ticket. That means that MoviePass loses money when its customers use a pass, since it must pay theaters for the tickets.

Part of the solution has been to grow subscribers as quickly as possible. MoviePass announced in February that it had reached 2 million subscribers, just one month after it topped 1.5 million. Executives have targeted 5 million by the end of the year.

Helios and Matheson CEO Ted Farnsworth says that should help make the business profitable. In a statement to CNNMoney on Wednesday, he added that the company always knew MoviePass would burn through a lot of money.

"We have access in capital markets to over $300 million," Farnsworth said. "So there is plenty of cash available to sustain the subscriber growth and movie-going habits of our users."

Farnsworth did not elaborate on the $300 million figure in his statement, and he was not immediately available for further comment.

Is MoviePass too good to be true?

Adding more users isn't the company's only business plan. MoviePass has said that it hopes to eventually become profitable by selling more advertising. It has also said in the past that the company collects data on its subscribers it wants to monetize — though executives have walked back the extent to which it uses that information in the wake of the recent Facebook data scandal.

In any case, it's not clear whether MoviePass can generate additional revenue fast enough to please investors, said Eric Wold, an analyst at B. Riley FBR.

"The subscriber growth, I don't think, is an important metric. It's really the usage that you're generating and the data that you're collecting," he said. "You're not at the point where that data is valuable, and I don't know if investors will make that bet ... because it's not going to happen overnight."

Farnsworth, meanwhile, said MoviePass has found ways to cut its expenses. His statement mentioned that the service's "burn rate" has been slashed by 35-40% in the last few weeks because of new "abuse prevention measures." The company announced last month that it would bar subscribers from seeing the same movie more than once.

Again, Wold was skeptical. He questioned whether the new restriction would end up driving some customers away, especially fans of the new "Avengers" or "Star Wars" who might have been banking on MoviePass for repeated viewings.

"I think that's going to be a negative to some people who signed up initially," Wold added. "I wouldn't be surprised if you saw people somewhat turn away from the service now."
Old 05-10-18, 08:48 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Yeesh.

Well, hopefully, more chains announce their own types of plans. Since all I really have near me is AMC, I'd probably jump on an, at most, $15/mo plan... maybe $20, but only if it allowed advanced e-ticketing.
Old 05-10-18, 08:52 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Yeah with so little assets and burning through cash like they are, it's a dead company walking.
Old 05-10-18, 08:53 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

No plan would come close to what MP has.
Old 05-10-18, 09:01 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by TomOpus View Post
No plan would come close to what MP has.
Well that is clear. And look where it got them. $9.99/mo/unlimited is too good to be true. We all new that. When this was announced it was always "enjoy it while it lasts." This isn't very surprising. But if big chains see the viability in it and can offer SOME sort of plan, I'm fine with that. Anything is an improvement on paying $10+ per movie.
Old 05-10-18, 10:11 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

I'm not fine with that, and I will never sign up for a chain-specific plan. People have complained about the restrictions on MP. Any chain plan will have more restrictions, just by being chain-specific.
Old 05-10-18, 10:25 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
I'm not fine with that, and I will never sign up for a chain-specific plan. People have complained about the restrictions on MP. Any chain plan will have more restrictions, just by being chain-specific.
Of course it will be more restrictive. But you would rather pay a high priced per movie fee over a modestly priced subscription? I guess it depends on how often you go.
Old 05-10-18, 10:28 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Mods : Can we change the thread title to include UPDATE : DEAD PLAN WALKING!
Old 05-10-18, 10:43 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by RoboDad View Post
I'm not fine with that, and I will never sign up for a chain-specific plan. People have complained about the restrictions on MP. Any chain plan will have more restrictions, just by being chain-specific.
People complained about the restrictions on MP but still (for the most part) stuck with it if they saw value in it. But we'll see.

It's such a dot com era throwback though. "We're losing a lot of money per user, so what should we do? Increase our userbase."
Old 05-10-18, 11:48 AM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by dex14 View Post
Of course it will be more restrictive. But you would rather pay a high priced per movie fee over a modestly priced subscription? I guess it depends on how often you go.
For regular 2D movies, I paid $5 at AMC until noon. At Cinemark, it's $4.50 before 6pm. If they can substantially beat that price, I might be interested.
Old 05-10-18, 12:20 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by jjcool View Post
People are giving their moviepass to friends to use? I wonder if our resident Moviepass scammers are doing that. Abob and Decker, are you guys scamming Moviepass that way as well, or just buying tickets to movies that you have no intention of seeing?



Slickdeals is nothing but scammers and resellers now.
Because buying a ticket for yourself and not sneaking into another theater or reselling it is a scam ...

Or is selling a customer a service under certain terms and then arbitrarily changing the terms numerous times without advanced notice in order to devalue the service a scam?

Actually, Iíve been using my MP card to pay for hookers, blow, and new sports cars for all my friends.
Old 05-10-18, 12:31 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

The ďrestĒ of the 8-K filing, in their words:

However, we will need proceeds from sales of our common stock pursuant to our Equity Distribution Agreement with Canaccord Genuity, or other sources of capital, starting in May 2018. Further, if we use all or a portion of the anticipated net proceeds from sales of our common stock pursuant to our Equity Distribution Agreement with Canaccord Genuity for acquisitions of other companies or financial interests in additional movies (through our subsidiary, MoviePass Ventures), we will need additional capital to offset our monthly cash deficit. In 2018, we expect our cash deficit from month to month will vary significantly based on the amount of movie tickets MoviePass is required to purchase for its subscribers during the month, the amount we spend on acquiring financial interests in additional movies through MoviePass Ventures, the amount we may spend on any other types of acquisitions, and our ability to develop the MoviePass business model in the near term generally, including developing and growing sources of revenue other than subscription revenue. Because the length of time and costs associated with the development of the MoviePass and MoviePass Ventures business model is highly uncertain, we are unable to estimate the actual funds we will require. If we are unable to obtain sufficient amounts of additional capital, whether through our Equity Distribution Agreement or otherwise, we may be required to reduce the scope of our planned growth or otherwise alter our business model, objectives and operations, which could harm our business, financial condition and operating results.
Old 05-10-18, 12:35 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by jjcool View Post
People are giving their moviepass to friends to use? I wonder if our resident Moviepass scammers are doing that. Abob and Decker, are you guys scamming Moviepass that way as well, or just buying tickets to movies that you have no intention of seeing?

A couple of times I have bought tickets to movies I didn't go to, either to get AMC points (usually when I was at a theater to see another movie I had paid for already without MP) and/or to give them the finger. Not scamming beyond that (if you'd consider that a scam -- now I will never be able to go see Super Troopers 2 in a movie theater without actually paying for it).
I have used the service exactly 25 times since September for me. So that's like 3 times a month.

I HAVE used my wife's account on my daughter's iPhone a couple of times to go to a movie with her instead, but I think that's something I can't do any more. If that's "scamming" I guess you could say I'm guilty of that.
Old 05-10-18, 01:08 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

I imagine if they go under, anyone (like my wife) who paid $90 for a year subscription at Costco would probably get all their money back from Costco -- though a pro-rated refund would be more than fair-- and anyone (like me) who pre-paid them directly is out a little more than if they had just kept paying $10/mo.
Old 05-10-18, 03:25 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by dex14 View Post
Of course it will be more restrictive. But you would rather pay a high priced per movie fee over a modestly priced subscription? I guess it depends on how often you go.
I don't want to pay a subscription fee to a chain that may only account for 30-40% of my movie attendance. That would not be cost-effective. That is why I like the MP model. I can use it at ANY of my local theaters.

I guess, if MP fails, I will have to look at something like Sinemia, assuming they survive.

Last edited by RoboDad; 05-10-18 at 04:16 PM.
Old 05-10-18, 04:13 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
Because buying a ticket for yourself and not sneaking into another theater or reselling it is a scam ...

Or is selling a customer a service under certain terms and then arbitrarily changing the terms numerous times without advanced notice in order to devalue the service a scam?

Actually, Iíve been using my MP card to pay for hookers, blow, and new sports cars for all my friends.
Yes. You are scamming them. You are part of the reason that they had to change the terms that you love to bitch and moan about.
Old 05-10-18, 04:15 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
A couple of times I have bought tickets to movies I didn't go to, either to get AMC points (usually when I was at a theater to see another movie I had paid for already without MP) and/or to give them the finger. Not scamming beyond that (if you'd consider that a scam -- now I will never be able to go see Super Troopers 2 in a movie theater without actually paying for it).
I have used the service exactly 25 times since September for me. So that's like 3 times a month.

I HAVE used my wife's account on my daughter's iPhone a couple of times to go to a movie with her instead, but I think that's something I can't do any more. If that's "scamming" I guess you could say I'm guilty of that.
So you're scamming the AMC stubs program too. Gotcha.
Old 05-10-18, 04:32 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

I don't think they go under... I would think they would drastically change the terms of service while they still have some money left.
Old 05-10-18, 04:40 PM
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re: MoviePass... would it work for you? [UPDATE: THE DEAD SHALL RISE]

Originally Posted by jjcool View Post
So you're scamming the AMC stubs program too. Gotcha.
Yes, I have probably taken them for $3-$4 in concession credits after I paid $15 to join their rewards program by buying a ticket to a movie at one of their theaters using my Movie Pass card when I was in fact going to another movie in their theater, paying a premium price with my own credit card. I am a criminal mastermind!



I sincerely hope you have never gotten a movie reward point from any movie you ever purchased a ticket from using your Movie Pass card, because according to their Terms of Service, that's scamming them as well.

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