rexinnih

Mr. Gibson is Catholic so it would be a "pull out"

moviefan2k4

The ultimate point of Jesus' physical existence on this Earth was to willingly shoulder the full punishment for all sin upon Himself - yours, mine, and everyone's. He even said Himself, "the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and give His life as a ransom for many". People who think they can get to God on their own merit, without any kind of Savior to take their place, are living a lie.

According to all four Gospel accounts, that's precisely what the Sanhedrin were like. They cared far more about their own man-made traditions than loving anyone, even when Jesus begged God to forgive them. An early moment in the film shows Caiphas throwing some of his own priests out of the court, because they dared to believe Jesus wasn't a serious threat. When the Temple and curtain were torn in half, that probably changed their attitude. Gibson was afraid of filming the crowd's claim of responsibility for Jesus' death, because his father would've probably labeled him a personal traitor. However, Mel's brother told him not filming it would make him a sellout, so it was included...without the English subtitles.

That same scene opens "The Passion", with Jesus begging the Father to spare His Son this terrible pain. Satan even tempts him to rebel, but Jesus prays, "Father, you are my refuge". That's when the serpent appears from beneath the devil's robe, but Christ sees through this tactic. In that moment, he's reminded of the eternal consequences involved, not just the temporal...and crushes Satan's head in defiance.

Groucho

I remember when this film came out and several red flags were raised about antisemitism. "No no!" said the defenders, "Mel Gibson isn't an anti-Semite. How dare you!" Flash forward to a few years later, Gibson gets a few drinks in him and the truth comes out.

Josh-da-man

Well, when you father is an outspoken holocaust denier and you make a movie based on historically antisemitic source material, people are going to wonder how far the apple fell from the tree.

GoldenJCJ

I thought it was an odd choice to have Jesus call everyone "sugar tits" in Aramaic but I figured that's just how they talked back then.

dave-o

Yeah, I had a few friends who suddenly went quiet when that happened. Not so easy to defend him and his anti-semitic torture porn after that happened.

moviefan2k4

Alcohol doesn't change who a person is, it simply removes their inhibitions. Its no secret that many of the major Hollywood players are Orthodox Jews, who vehemently deny that Jesus is their Messiah. Gibson likely got a ton of flack from that whole community for making "The Passion", plus his own racist father. I think most of his remarks were expressions of his frustration with the Orthodox community at large, not hateful attacks on individuals. Many people of different faiths embraced Christ as Lord during the making of the film, and I think many people - Jewish and otherwise - were selfish. they didn't want to lose any more people to Christ, because it affects their cultural power and influence.

Many of Mel's alcohol-assisted comments were appalling, but consider for a brief moment the stress he was under. That doesn't make his words any less wrong, but is it really so hard to believe many people he cared about turned against him for wanting to tell the simple truth?

brayzie

I think it does an incredible disservice to the story of the New Testament to focus only on the torture and crucifixion of Jesus and make only a few passing references to his teachings.

Again, Jesus of Nazareth is a much better movie interpretation of the life and death of Jesus than The Passion of the Christ. One encompasses his whole life and shows nuance. Shows WHY the Sanhedrin and even some of the Jews wouldn't were at odds with Jesus's teaching as well as his claim of being the Messiah. And it answers those questions via Simon's speech and the scenes of Jesus himself discussing Torah.

The other film, POTC, is simple minded, black and white in it's outlook.

I didn't get the impression that they were stereotypical villains and that the Jews in general were virtually calling the shots and Pilate and the rest of the Romans feared them. I don't recall Barrabas being described as animal-like.

That part is taken out of context and the fact that it starts out the film weakens the significance of the scene. We get no sense of why he's desperate and fearful because the film just started. Also, it's easy to see WHY Jesus wasn't tempted by the Satan. It's CLEARLY Satan who is talking to him, an androgynous looking demon sounding evil.

In The Last Temptation however, we get to see Jesus before he began his ministry, his own conflicted feelings, and the world around him. When he's praying we identify with him in that scene because we've been experiencing what he's been experiencing prior to that.

And temptation in Scorsese's film is more clever. Satan appears to Jesus as an angel, in the form of a little girl, and is very convincing. "So, if he saved Abraham's son, don't you think he'd want to save his own?"

Supermallet

Do you know how close this sounds to The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I will say this once: Whoever told you this is full of shit. Jews, even Orthodox Jews, aren't trying to hold on to some global power that they're wielding through Hollywood films. There is no global war for souls being waged.

And, in case this doesn't sink in, as a mod I'm telling you that if you post this kind of crap again here, I will consider it to be in defiance of a moderator warning.

Mordred

Honestly, I get where Mel is coming from. When I was a boy, I liked to play pickup basketball at the neighborhood court. All the black kids made fun of me because of my Air Jordans that were two seasons old and the fact that I couldn't jump very high (being white). I was always picked last and they'd never pass me the ball. I finally stopped playing basketball and took up golf. Thank God and Jesus that I'm not famous because if you get a few drinks in me at the 19th hole and I'd probably tell all my friends at the country club how "those ******s are destroying America with their crime and welfare," and that soundbite would be all over TMZ. Obviously I'm not racist and it's not any particular ****** I hate, it's just frustration and repressed anger from my childhood experiences that cause me to paint the whole ****** community with the same brush. Holding something silly like that against me would be a ridiculous overreaction by those ******s. I'm under a lot of stress and you can't expect me to watch my language even when I'm drinking just so I don't piss off people.

moviefan2k4

Not really, since I've never heard of them.

I respectfully disagree. The war is very real, but its in the spiritual world, not the natural.

I honestly don't care how anyone interprets my statements; if I'm not being malicious, its not my fault.

Supermallet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pro...Elders_of_Zion

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or The Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion is an antisemitic hoax purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination...The Protocols purports to document the minutes of a late 19th-century meeting of Jewish leaders discussing their goal of global Jewish hegemony by subverting the morals of Gentiles, and by controlling the press and the world's economies. It is still widely available today and even now sometimes presented as a genuine document, whether on the Internet or in print in numerous languages."

There is a long history of people using conspiracy theories to suggest that Jews and other non-Christians are using their resources to corrupt good Christians. It's noxious and clearly antisemitic. When you suggest that there is some conspiracy by Jews to control Hollywood to steal souls away from Christians is just as noxious, and yes, antisemitic. I don't care if you think you're being malicious or not. Think about what you're posting before you post it.

DonnachaOne

Guys, when you quote moviefan2k4, I can't ignore his bigotry.

As for Jim Caviezel, stars rise and fall. Orlando Bloom, to my knowledge, didn't have to blame Kingdom of Heaven for it, though. I can see why Caviezel might make inflammatory remarks - they get a desperate actor noticed. In his case, it seemed to work, since his show on the most-watched network comes back on in the fall.

Hokeyboy

Do you even know what an "Orthodox" Jew is? I'll give you a hint: they CERTAINLY aint the gang running Hollywood...

movielib

moviefan, there are so many things wrong with this on so many levels, one does not even know where to begin. You really have no idea why people are upset with you, do you? Your not even having heard of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion reflects the narrowness of your upbringing and probably a willful ignorance which you seem to have no interest in changing. (And just because you never heard of it doesn't mean you can't independently come up with something similar.) Many on this Forum have tried to nudge you toward widening your horizons and having some perspective but it's clear you want none of that.

Groucho

Oddly enough, I don't think is the first time I've seen a post on this forum blaming "The Jews" for Mel Gibson's rants, essentially doubling down on the antisemitism.

Michael Corvin

moviefan2k4

To the best of my knowledge, the term "orthodox" simply refers to Jewish people who claim to follow the Biblical God, yet reject Jesus as their Savior. They're still trying to live up to the Old Covenant, instead of accepting undeserved grace from the One God sent to take their punishment.

I think some people here get mad at me because I refuse to back down with what I believe. I'm not a politically-correct person, nor do I wish to be. I call things as I see them, trying my best to never deliberately offend anyone...but their reactions aren't my responsibility.

You don't know anything about how I was brought up, so asking might not be a bad idea.

If you mean similar to people like Dr. Turek, I agree.

It depends on what I'm being asked to "expand" towards, and why.

taffer

Moviefan is beginning to remind me of Herbert Moon from the video game Red Dead Redemption.

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Jay G.

Nope, not even close. What you described is just Judaism. Orthadox Judaism is a special subgroup, of which, as Hokeyboy point out, most Hollywood Jews don't belong to. The monumental amount of ignorance of the people you're vilifying you display just further undermines your position.

Nope, it's because what you believe is ugly and intolerant.

When you paint a whole group of people with unfounded antisemitic accusations, that's offensive to every decent human being. And now that you've been informed that it is, to continue unabated with it is deliberate.

Hokeyboy

You really should do about 3 seconds of research before you start throwing a term around as if you really knew what you're talking about.

For future reference: http://judaism.about.com/od/orthodox...a/orthodox.htm but in a nutshell:

1) Orthodox Jews are VERY religious
2) They believe the Torah (what you would call the Old Testament) is the absolute word of God Himself
3) They keep kosher laws. No pork, shellfish, mixing meat & dairy... ever.
4) They follow Sabbath laws pretty strictly. From Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, no turning on electricity, riding in cars, working in any capacity, and so forth. Even flicking on a light switch is strictly forbidden.
5) Which means, unless they're sick or dying, every Friday night and Saturday morning is usually spent worshipping in a synagogue.
6) While most live secular lives in every other aspect, religion is the cornerstone of their existence and family life.

You know those Hasidic types? The ones with the long beards, black coats, hats, etc.? THEY are Orthodox Jews; ULTRA Orthodox Jews, but orthodox nonetheless.

Now if you think this describes Harvey Weinstein, Jerry Bruckheimer, or Joel Silver, you might be out of your mind.

movielib

Thanks for the confirmation!

Lastdaysofrain

I always love how people use "I don't want to have to be politically correct" as a politically correct term for them to say "I will be ignorant, racist and unthinking because I'm mostly too lazy or scared to not be"

Hokeyboy

"I'm no racist; I call 'em like I see 'em!"

Why So Blu?

"I'm not a racist, I have ONE black friend."