View Poll Results: Is Die hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
yes
38
60.32%
no
25
39.68%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll
The Great Debate: Is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
12-25-10, 07:10 PM
#26
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by Numanoid
The great debate. 
All you have to do is define the term "Christmas movie" before you make your bold declaration. As others have pointed out, some define that as a movie about Christmas, while others simply think it's a movie which has a Christmas setting. So the next time you bring it up with your family, here's how you say it, "A Christmas movie is any movie with some Christmas stuff in it, but doesn't have to have a Christmas theme. Ergo, Die Hard and Lethal Weapon are Christmas movies." If you put it like that, no one can argue with you. They may argue about your definition (as I would), but they certainly can't argue your conclusion based on your thesis.
All you have to do is define the term "Christmas movie" before you make your bold declaration. As others have pointed out, some define that as a movie about Christmas, while others simply think it's a movie which has a Christmas setting. So the next time you bring it up with your family, here's how you say it, "A Christmas movie is any movie with some Christmas stuff in it, but doesn't have to have a Christmas theme. Ergo, Die Hard and Lethal Weapon are Christmas movies." If you put it like that, no one can argue with you. They may argue about your definition (as I would), but they certainly can't argue your conclusion based on your thesis.
12-25-20, 10:53 AM
#28
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Twitter thread from Jake Tapper with pics:
‘Twas the night before Christmas
At Nakatomi Tower
When our story of homecoming
Begins with brute power
At Los Angeles airport, meet our savior, McClane;
With toys for his kids he disembarks from his plane.
To not see that this tale’s about Christmas is folly;
Did I mention that Mrs. McClane’s name is Holly?
“How 'bout some Christmas music?” McClane asks of Argyle.
“That *is* Christmas music,” the driver says with a smile.
To reunite with Holly, his aim is shared with shy laughter;
T’would be a holiday miracle to last ever after.
“You throw quite a party,” says John to Tagaki-San.
“I didn't know they had Christmas in Japan.”
John is weary from travel; Holly offers a bed.
While down in the lobby, the guard’s shot in the head.
In Theo! In Kyle! In Tony, Ed, Fritz!
Into the party the armed thugs run a blitz.
(Argyle still waits; this is long before Uber.)
While havoc is wreaked by the evil Hans Gruber.
John McClane, he escapes. Save the day - he’s just gotta;
Without shoes he tracks blood as if bearing wounds of stigmata;
One thug tries to kill him but that German’s too slow;
Now John McClane has a machine gun. HO-HO-HO.
Sgt. Al Powell is told of disturbance;
In response the fake guard feigns a bit of perturbance
Does he hear anything? The answer is no
Except for the song “LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW”
“Merry Christmas,” says Powell, not realizing the peril;
Driving off while he sings a beloved Christmas carol.
A corpse falls from above with a clear rationale;
McClane says to the cop “Welcome to the party, pal.”
Gruber talks to McClane, or rather he sneers
Survival would be a miracle, he plays on his fears
The policeman is bloodied and in dire need of succor
“Yipee-ki-yea,” McClane says, “mother-f***er.”
A woman hostage with child in of its glory
Is also a part of our Christmas Eve story
With Johnny McC traveling great distance
With hope and with love fighting evil resistance
Theo, a wise man, who’s also quite naughty
Is stealing the money in spirit quite haughty
Ellis, the Judas, attempts an amenity
By disclosing the cowboy’s secret identity
McClane gets a bad feeling and asks Sgt Powell
To relay to his wife a redemptive avowal
“When things panned out for her, I should've been behind her all the way”
He says this thinking that he’ll never see the light of day.
“I got it,” says the sergeant, “but you can tell her yourself.”
In a scene that’s as seasonal as a reindeer or elf
“I hope so, but that's up to the guy upstairs,” says McClane
Who’s traveled far for peace but encountered only pain
If Christmas is love, rebirth and a savior
McClane was all of the above in his Die Hard behavior
God was truly with him, the success was empirical
At Nakatomi they experienced a miracle
That Die Hard is a Christmas film seems to me just a Fact
I declare this without any holiday tact
But whether you agree or your disapproval won’t cease
I wish you a season of love and of peace.
At Nakatomi Tower
When our story of homecoming
Begins with brute power
At Los Angeles airport, meet our savior, McClane;
With toys for his kids he disembarks from his plane.
To not see that this tale’s about Christmas is folly;
Did I mention that Mrs. McClane’s name is Holly?
“How 'bout some Christmas music?” McClane asks of Argyle.
“That *is* Christmas music,” the driver says with a smile.
To reunite with Holly, his aim is shared with shy laughter;
T’would be a holiday miracle to last ever after.
“You throw quite a party,” says John to Tagaki-San.
“I didn't know they had Christmas in Japan.”
John is weary from travel; Holly offers a bed.
While down in the lobby, the guard’s shot in the head.
In Theo! In Kyle! In Tony, Ed, Fritz!
Into the party the armed thugs run a blitz.
(Argyle still waits; this is long before Uber.)
While havoc is wreaked by the evil Hans Gruber.
John McClane, he escapes. Save the day - he’s just gotta;
Without shoes he tracks blood as if bearing wounds of stigmata;
One thug tries to kill him but that German’s too slow;
Now John McClane has a machine gun. HO-HO-HO.
Sgt. Al Powell is told of disturbance;
In response the fake guard feigns a bit of perturbance
Does he hear anything? The answer is no
Except for the song “LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW”
“Merry Christmas,” says Powell, not realizing the peril;
Driving off while he sings a beloved Christmas carol.
A corpse falls from above with a clear rationale;
McClane says to the cop “Welcome to the party, pal.”
Gruber talks to McClane, or rather he sneers
Survival would be a miracle, he plays on his fears
The policeman is bloodied and in dire need of succor
“Yipee-ki-yea,” McClane says, “mother-f***er.”
A woman hostage with child in of its glory
Is also a part of our Christmas Eve story
With Johnny McC traveling great distance
With hope and with love fighting evil resistance
Theo, a wise man, who’s also quite naughty
Is stealing the money in spirit quite haughty
Ellis, the Judas, attempts an amenity
By disclosing the cowboy’s secret identity
McClane gets a bad feeling and asks Sgt Powell
To relay to his wife a redemptive avowal
“When things panned out for her, I should've been behind her all the way”
He says this thinking that he’ll never see the light of day.
“I got it,” says the sergeant, “but you can tell her yourself.”
In a scene that’s as seasonal as a reindeer or elf
“I hope so, but that's up to the guy upstairs,” says McClane
Who’s traveled far for peace but encountered only pain
If Christmas is love, rebirth and a savior
McClane was all of the above in his Die Hard behavior
God was truly with him, the success was empirical
At Nakatomi they experienced a miracle
That Die Hard is a Christmas film seems to me just a Fact
I declare this without any holiday tact
But whether you agree or your disapproval won’t cease
I wish you a season of love and of peace.
12-25-20, 11:38 AM
#29
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
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Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
i brought in X-mas by watching Die Hard as the bell struck 12am. first time i did that. i was in glee.
12-25-20, 11:48 AM
#30
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Just because there’s a Christmas tree or some decorations in the background doesn’t mean it’s a Christmas movie. Otherwise, we’d just have to classify every Shane Black movie as a “Christmas Movie”.
Get outta here with that nonsense! Bah, humbug!
Get outta here with that nonsense! Bah, humbug!
12-25-20, 12:13 PM
#31
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
Just because there’s a Christmas tree or some decorations in the background doesn’t mean it’s a Christmas movie. Otherwise, we’d just have to classify every Shane Black movie as a “Christmas Movie”.
Get outta here with that nonsense! Bah, humbug!
Get outta here with that nonsense! Bah, humbug!
My wife and I watch "Die Hard" every year while wrapping presents for our kids and did it again last night. It's my favorite tradition.
12-25-20, 12:28 PM
#32
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by Draven
It's way more than that. Christmas is everywhere in "Die Hard". There are literally Christmas songs on the soundtrack.
My wife and I watch "Die Hard" every year while wrapping presents for our kids and did it again last night. It's my favorite tradition.
My wife and I watch "Die Hard" every year while wrapping presents for our kids and did it again last night. It's my favorite tradition.
In order for a movie to be a “Christmas movie” I think it needs to have a little more to do with, you know, Christmas. You can’t set Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Scrooged, etc. at any other time of the year without making drastic changes to the story.
If you want to classify Die Hard and Lethal Weapon as Christmas movies, you need to add Batman Returns, Eyes Wide Shut, and Trading Places as Christmas movies as well. As a general rule, if you can watch and enjoy it any time during the year, it shouldn’t qualify.
BTW, Die Hard is one of my favorite movies. It’s just not a Christmas movie.
Edit: Sorry, I got the bold in this reply all screwed up and can’t fix it.
12-25-20, 12:41 PM
#33
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
You can’t set Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Scrooged, etc. at any other time of the year without making drastic changes to the story.
Same with Scrooged - the Christmas setting dictates the way the movie looks (and of course the source material too) but it could be about someone seeing what a terrible person they are at any time of year.
12-25-20, 02:30 PM
#34
Inane Thread Master, 2018 TOTY
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Are any of us really anywhere?
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Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Die Hard is definitely a Christmas movie. it takes place on x-mas, the party is an x-mas party, there are jokes and innuendo about x-mas. just because it doesn't have an angel or some spiritual ghosts telling someone they need to rethink their life, doesn't mean it's not an x-mas movie. sure it could happen any other time of year, but it doesn't, it happens on x-mas. end story.
12-25-20, 03:00 PM
#36
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by Draven
Same with Scrooged - the Christmas setting dictates the way the movie looks (and of course the source material too) but it could be about someone seeing what a terrible person they are at any time of year.
12-25-20, 03:10 PM
#37
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
You could literally place Die Hard at any other time of the year and it would be virtually the same exact movie. McClane could have been reuniting with his wife for any number of reasons and the office could have been having a get together for a number of reasons.
In order for a movie to be a “Christmas movie” I think it needs to have a little more to do with, you know, Christmas. You can’t set [b]Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Scrooged, etc. at any other time of the year without making drastic changes to the story.
If you want to classify Die Hard and Lethal Weapon as Christmas movies, you need to add Batman Returns, Eyes Wide Shut, and Trading Places as Christmas movies as well. As a general rule, if you can watch and enjoy it any time during the year, it shouldn’t qualify.
BTW, Die Hard is one of my favorite movies. It’s just not a Christmas movie.
In order for a movie to be a “Christmas movie” I think it needs to have a little more to do with, you know, Christmas. You can’t set [b]Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Scrooged, etc. at any other time of the year without making drastic changes to the story.
If you want to classify Die Hard and Lethal Weapon as Christmas movies, you need to add Batman Returns, Eyes Wide Shut, and Trading Places as Christmas movies as well. As a general rule, if you can watch and enjoy it any time during the year, it shouldn’t qualify.
BTW, Die Hard is one of my favorite movies. It’s just not a Christmas movie.
Come on, Mr. Grinch, Die Hard is a CLASSIC Christmas movie! They just added violence to the mix for extra Holiday fun!
Die Hard is absolutely a Christmas movie. Christmas is brought up as many times in Die Hard as it is in all the classic Christmas movies you mentioned. It's my absolute favorite Christmas movie.
Is it an orthodox, run of the mill Christmas movie? No, but it IS a Christmas movie. Only The Grinch or Scrooge would think otherwise.
12-25-20, 04:01 PM
#38
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by jfoobar
Now, did Tapper actually compose that or was he just reposting somebody else's work?
Also, I heard a commentator on the radio complain that companies absolutely never hold a Christmas party on Christmas Eve. True, but in this instance, it's a reasonable case of dramatic license.
12-25-20, 04:43 PM
#40
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
I watched this Youtube video yesterday that posits that arguing about what counts as a "Christmas Movie," is itself now a Christmas tradition:
12-25-20, 05:15 PM
#41
DVD Talk Hero
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by jfoobar
While I tend to disagree with GoldenJCJ on this, saying that Scrooged could be reset at a different time of the year is a bit much. It's an adaptation of A Christmas Carol and the existing script would have to be gutted to tell it differently. Now, if you wish to argue that A Christmas Carol could have been re-written to not take place at Christmas, I suppose you would be correct, but it would have lost a lot of its impact.
Same thing with "Home Alone" - a kid could be left home by his parents any time. But that movie is pretty universally considered to be a Christmas movie.
12-25-20, 10:33 PM
#43
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by Draven
A man could be visited by three ghosts telling him not to be such an asshole at any time of year.
Same thing with "Home Alone" - a kid could be left home by his parents any time. But that movie is pretty universally considered to be a Christmas movie.
Same thing with "Home Alone" - a kid could be left home by his parents any time. But that movie is pretty universally considered to be a Christmas movie.
Also, for A Christmas Carol, the whole supernatural element is, again, tied to the "magic" of the season, a period of Christian approved supernatural events, along with the themes of generosity and charity being tied to Christmas. Scrooge is so much worse than other people not just because he's a miser, but a miser at Christmas.
I was curious about if anyone had tried changing A Christmas Carol to be not at Christmas, and Wikipidia has a pretty extensive list of adaptations, and after a quick scan, only two out of seemingly hundreds of adaptations removed Christmas from the story: a Batman comic that changes the holiday to Halloween, as well as changing the moral a bit, and the movie Ghosts of Girlfriends Past, which also changes the day and the moral.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adapta...hristmas_Carol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman...night#Specials
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts...rlfriends_Past
12-25-20, 11:08 PM
#44
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by Jay G.
Also, for A Christmas Carol, the whole supernatural element is, again, tied to the "magic" of the season, a period of Christian approved supernatural events, along with the themes of generosity and charity being tied to Christmas. Scrooge is so much worse than other people not just because he's a miser, but a miser at Christmas.
12-25-20, 11:50 PM
#45
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by Jay G.
A major plot point of Home Alone is that Kevin doesn't go to the cops or anything because he believes that his wish to Santa caused his family to magically disappear. You'd need another scenario where the average kid would plausibly believe that a wish to a supernatural being could come true.
Also, Die Hard is a Christmas movie and I don't feel any need to justify that statement.
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12-26-20, 12:43 AM
#46
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
If a video store (back in the day), only had one copy of Die Hard, would they put it in their Action Movie section or their Holiday/Christmas movie section? I think the answer is pretty obvious.
12-26-20, 01:11 AM
#47
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
What is and what's not a Christmas movie is subjective to the viewer. I don't buy the "video section" argument, either, because The Polar Express I see put in the animation section all of the time and that movie bleeds Christmas. Movies like Krampus and Black Christmas are usually in horror.
I personally feel Die Hard is a Christmas movie and that Lethal Weapon is not. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over anyone who disagrees. I love the hell out of both movies. It depends on what your personal qualifications for a Christmas movie are. Personally, I just think it should make us want to watch it at Christmastime. And I've watched Die Hard almost every Christmas Eve since 1988. The thing is, John McClane does rethink his life over the course of the night. He comes to realize the importance of his family and how he let stupid little things get in the way of his marriage. The entire movie takes place on Christmas Eve at a Christmas office party. Much like Home Alone, it's got guys trying to rip off a place that's less frequented on Christmas. Just on a grander scale. Without Christmas, John McClane doesn't show up to the party and there's no hostage situation to be had. Just because it has action and suspense and doesn't follow a "Christmas formula" by having angels, Santa Claus, and reindeer in it doesn't make it any less a Christmas movie in my eyes. I get more "feels" from McClane talking with Powell on a CB radio about how he screwed up his life than I do anything in A Christmas Story. It's subjective and no one person is right or wrong in how they feel, I suppose.
I personally feel Die Hard is a Christmas movie and that Lethal Weapon is not. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over anyone who disagrees. I love the hell out of both movies. It depends on what your personal qualifications for a Christmas movie are. Personally, I just think it should make us want to watch it at Christmastime. And I've watched Die Hard almost every Christmas Eve since 1988. The thing is, John McClane does rethink his life over the course of the night. He comes to realize the importance of his family and how he let stupid little things get in the way of his marriage. The entire movie takes place on Christmas Eve at a Christmas office party. Much like Home Alone, it's got guys trying to rip off a place that's less frequented on Christmas. Just on a grander scale. Without Christmas, John McClane doesn't show up to the party and there's no hostage situation to be had. Just because it has action and suspense and doesn't follow a "Christmas formula" by having angels, Santa Claus, and reindeer in it doesn't make it any less a Christmas movie in my eyes. I get more "feels" from McClane talking with Powell on a CB radio about how he screwed up his life than I do anything in A Christmas Story. It's subjective and no one person is right or wrong in how they feel, I suppose.
12-26-20, 07:31 AM
#48
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by kefrank
Hm, I just watched Home Alone again and there wasn't anything indicating Kevin's wish was "to Santa" as far as I could tell. He was just upset when being sent to the attic and said he wished he didn't have a family...
https://www.scripts.com/script.php?i...lone_10089&p=3
Everyone in this family hates me!
Then ask Santa for a new family.
I don't want a new family. I don't want any family. Families suck!
Then ask Santa for a new family.
I don't want a new family. I don't want any family. Families suck!
12-26-20, 07:54 AM
#49
DVD Talk Legend & 2021 TOTY Winner
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ
You could literally place Die Hard at any other time of the year and it would be virtually the same exact movie. McClane could have been reuniting with his wife for any number of reasons and the office could have been having a get together for a number of reasons.
In order for a movie to be a “Christmas movie” I think it needs to have a little more to do with, you know, Christmas. You can’t set Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Scrooged, etc. at any other time of the year without making drastic changes to the story.
If you want to classify Die Hard and Lethal Weapon as Christmas movies, you need to add Batman Returns, Eyes Wide Shut, and Trading Places as Christmas movies as well. As a general rule, if you can watch and enjoy it any time during the year, it shouldn’t qualify.
BTW, Die Hard is one of my favorite movies. It’s just not a Christmas movie.
Edit: Sorry, I got the bold in this reply all screwed up and can’t fix it.
In order for a movie to be a “Christmas movie” I think it needs to have a little more to do with, you know, Christmas. You can’t set Miracle on 34th Street, Christmas Vacation, Scrooged, etc. at any other time of the year without making drastic changes to the story.
If you want to classify Die Hard and Lethal Weapon as Christmas movies, you need to add Batman Returns, Eyes Wide Shut, and Trading Places as Christmas movies as well. As a general rule, if you can watch and enjoy it any time during the year, it shouldn’t qualify.
BTW, Die Hard is one of my favorite movies. It’s just not a Christmas movie.
Edit: Sorry, I got the bold in this reply all screwed up and can’t fix it.
12-26-20, 09:07 AM
#50
DVD Talk Legend
Re: The Great Debate ; is Die Hard and Lethal Weapon a X-mas movie?
Another Youtube video (actually a companion to the one I posted previous) that asks, instead of whether a movie is a "Christmas Movie" or not, just how much "Christmas" a particular movie is:
