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Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

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Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Old 07-17-10, 02:13 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Spoiler:
Why didn't Fischer recognize the people from his dream when he woke up on the plane?
Old 07-17-10, 02:36 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by droidguy1119
Two theories I have heard. I will be seeing the movie again at 8:40 tonight. I admit that having seen it once I can't say for certain whether either holds up.
Spoiler:
The theory where the entire movie is a dream is one I heard floated first, although there was a little more to it: Cobb lives in the real world, a world where no incepting or extracting or dream entrance is possible. The dream is just a dream, his way of working through his wife's suicide (which had its roots in something else, but was basically the same). Technically, we never see the real Cobb in this theory. It's just 100% dream.

The second theory my friend was pitching to me last night was that Cobb is the target for inception, and someone is saving Cobb, the broken man, from being tormented by his wife's death, by slipping in the idea that he had to let go. The Cillian Murphy character is part of the team.
Yup, I came out of the movie thinking it was the second theory.
Old 07-17-10, 02:37 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

What do you guys think of this theory?

Spoiler:
"Cobb's father is key to understanding the movie. In the end it doesn't matter if the top stays up or falls down - Cobb has been coerced to join his father (Caine) in Caine's dream reality. Apply everything you know about Cobb's role to Ariadne, the architect - she brings Cobb to the deepest levels of his dreams/memories, she tells Cobb to trust her with his deepest secrets, she convinces Cobb to shoot Mal. All this after 'an idea' is implanted in Cobb's brain early in the movie - when Saito suggests that he can live his life happily with his children if he does one more job. They also made the point over and over that only the dreamer can populate a dream landscape - his kids and Mal keep showing up. One last hint - after escaping the van Ariadne states "He'll be fine" - because she orchestrated everything, and the rest of the cast (including Fischer) were part of her team, working for Michael Caine's character. There's no conclusion to the 'Level 4' story because he had already parted with Mal - goal accomplished, at which point the rest of the team (on the plane) woke him up"
Old 07-17-10, 02:39 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RyoHazuki
Spoiler:
Why didn't Fischer recognize the people from his dream when he woke up on the plane?
Spoiler:
Well, I'll take my dreams for instance. I'll see something or someone and they'll be featured in my dream just because I saw them for the briefest moment. Probably something like that. I don't really think anything of it though. Didn't he pause and look around too?
Old 07-17-10, 03:41 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

The entire theater I saw it with boo'd at the end. Then again, I almost got into three separate fights before, during and after the flick; so I'm surprised I'm able to type this without being shanked on my way out of the theater.

It wasn't Nolan's best film and far from his worst, but I do love a film that makes me think continuously after watching it. Nolan succeeded there, but I will agree with others that any emotional connection to the characters weren't there and that the portion in the snow was boring.

Everything else?
Old 07-17-10, 04:30 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Osiris3657
What do you guys think of this theory?

Spoiler:
"Cobb's father is key to understanding the movie. In the end it doesn't matter if the top stays up or falls down - Cobb has been coerced to join his father (Caine) in Caine's dream reality. Apply everything you know about Cobb's role to Ariadne, the architect - she brings Cobb to the deepest levels of his dreams/memories, she tells Cobb to trust her with his deepest secrets, she convinces Cobb to shoot Mal. All this after 'an idea' is implanted in Cobb's brain early in the movie - when Saito suggests that he can live his life happily with his children if he does one more job. They also made the point over and over that only the dreamer can populate a dream landscape - his kids and Mal keep showing up. One last hint - after escaping the van Ariadne states "He'll be fine" - because she orchestrated everything, and the rest of the cast (including Fischer) were part of her team, working for Michael Caine's character. There's no conclusion to the 'Level 4' story because he had already parted with Mal - goal accomplished, at which point the rest of the team (on the plane) woke him up"
Is Michael Caine meant to be Cobb's father? I thought he was his father-in-law. That's an interesting theory, though.
Old 07-17-10, 04:40 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Saw it again. "Nordling" of AICN DMed his theory to me over Twitter and I like it a lot. It's like Boba Fett's
Spoiler:
Saito takes control of Cobb's totem when Cobb washes up in Saito's limbo. The movie shows him touching the gun, suggesting he shoots the both of them to get them out of limbo and back to reality, but what the movie would not show us in between is Saito immediately putting Cobb back under, and placing him in a "happy ending" dream. There's a bit of a hard cut there and Cobb could be said to be entering in the middle, as in a dream. The rest of the group is probably fucked too, because Saito bought the airline. Easier to send them all into dreamworld in some facility somewhere than send them awake to jail and have them reveal they planted an idea into Fischer. Saito gets what he wants, then fucks everyone over.
Old 07-17-10, 08:46 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

I liked this movie. I'd give it 4.5/5 just because it's so well made, and still a great movie to watch.

However, the problem I had with this movie, is the same problem I have with all of Christopher Nolan's movies: The characters are either one-dimensional and only serve the plot, or they're totally otherworldly, in which case, the audience can't empathize with them; the plot harkens at something deeper, but the movie never bothers to explore beyond the surface; and lastly, there are just too many questions left unanswered that aren't necessarily because the plot leaves things open to viewer interpretation, it's that the plot is just not tight enough.

still, great movie.

Last edited by Superboy; 07-17-10 at 09:35 AM.
Old 07-17-10, 09:54 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Is Michael Caine meant to be Cobb's father? I thought he was his father-in-law. That's an interesting theory, though.
Yes, I thought it was clear that Caine is his father.
Old 07-17-10, 10:01 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
Then again, I almost got into three separate fights before, during and after the flick; so I'm surprised I'm able to type this without being shanked on my way out of the theater.
I wasn't aware that Las Vegas had a seedy undercurrent.
Old 07-17-10, 10:55 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

The one dimensional nature of all the characters could easily be explained by having the whole movie

Spoiler:
Be a dream of Leo. He was creating Mal, and said he could only do a decent job, based off of his memories. So all the people on his team were memories of his, the less he knew them the more shallow they would be.


Or he just didn't develop the other characters enough.
Old 07-17-10, 11:09 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by UncleGramps
Saw it tonight. Loved it.

Ending spoilers:
Spoiler:
I thought it was fairly clear that at the end, he's in reality. The key to this is the concept of Cobb's totem. We're told that it's the top, but really, that was his wife's totem. Cobb's actual totems are the faces of his children. The kids show up in all of his dreams, but he never sees their faces. Finally, at the end of the movie, he does see their faces. That's why, even though he spun the top, he doesn't need to look back at it to know that he's not dreaming. Nolan cuts to black as the top starts to wobble, which I think is a clue, but the point is that neither Cobb nor the audience needs to see the top fall to know that we're back in reality.
Spoiler:
I really like this theory. I think Nolan was trying to get us to think it was a dream, which is why the movie starts off so fast (as said in the movie, dreams always start in the middle).

But I like the above post. The kids were the real totem. I need to see the last scene again, but maybe someone remembers more clearly: Did Cobb spin the top before or after he saw the kids faces? IIRC, he came home, saw the kids backs, spun the top and saw the kids faces and ran to them.
Old 07-17-10, 11:21 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by GenPion
Anyway, definitely a good movie, I have seen every Christopher Nolan movie, and loved them all except this one... which may grow on me, at least I hope it will, but for a first viewing just seemed somewhat distant and cold (though it has all the Christopher Nolan traits I have come to love as well).

.

You sound completely confused as to what exactly your opinion is of this movie. You say it is good, had everything you liked about Nolan, yet you didn't enjoy it? I guess it is possible to acknowledge a movie as being good yet not liking it.
Old 07-17-10, 11:48 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Eric D.
J My biggest complaint is that I wish it was an hour longer. I wanted to know more about that world and get a deeper sense of all the team members.
I don't know about an hour but I could've definitely used another 20 minutes setting up the world, Cobb's current life - kinda like Deckard in Blade Runner going to his apartment, pouring a drink, etc.

I did find the arctic action a little odd (but cool), and it kept reminding me of N64 Goldeneye for some reason. But looking back, if it is the dreamworld, I guess stuff like that can happen.

I thought the spinning totem was very similar to the folded paper animals in Blade Runner, just seemed to be a little reoccurring flourish throughout the film and ultimately influences the interpretation of it.

Edit: That Dark Knight-style close up shot of Leo turning towards the camera at night wasn't in the final film was it?

Last edited by Artman; 07-17-10 at 12:08 PM.
Old 07-17-10, 11:50 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by UncleGramps
Saw it tonight. Loved it.

Ending spoilers:
Spoiler:
I thought it was fairly clear that at the end, he's in reality. The key to this is the concept of Cobb's totem. We're told that it's the top, but really, that was his wife's totem. Cobb's actual totems are the faces of his children. The kids show up in all of his dreams, but he never sees their faces. Finally, at the end of the movie, he does see their faces. That's why, even though he spun the top, he doesn't need to look back at it to know that he's not dreaming. Nolan cuts to black as the top starts to wobble, which I think is a clue, but the point is that neither Cobb nor the audience needs to see the top fall to know that we're back in reality.


Spoiler:
Reminds me a bit of that scene in The Bourne Identity, where Bourne orchestrates a massive multi-layered coup in a hotel to obtain information while Marie just walks to the front desk and asks for it. Sometimes the simplest answer is correct, even if other pathways look like they'll lead to the same destination. That top spinning in the end might not be an indication of a dream world, but more a test of the audience's faith in the reality of the final scene. We never hear any tension-relieving clank, but we see the top teeter a bit.

Or, from a more cynical point of view, us not seeing the top definitively fall could be seen as a red herring.
Old 07-17-10, 11:59 AM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

By the way, I absolutely loved Inception and need to see it again before I can definitively offer my concrete solution -- but I'm strongly leaning towards the above.
Old 07-17-10, 12:08 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Another theory floated that is interesting:
Spoiler:
I guess I never actively thought about who Caine's character is to Cobb, but he's Mal's father. Perhaps Cobb never told Caine's character what happened. Caine introduces Cobb to Ariadne. Ariadne is a team of her own, there to go into Cobb's mind and find out what happened.
Old 07-17-10, 12:12 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by droidguy1119
Another theory floated that is interesting:
Spoiler:
I guess I never actively thought about who Caine's character is to Cobb, but he's Mal's father. Perhaps Cobb never told Caine's character what happened. Caine introduces Cobb to Ariadne. Ariadne is a team of her own, there to go into Cobb's mind and find out what happened.
Spoiler:
Possible, but I doubt it. Marion's character is clearly French, Caine, not so much.
Old 07-17-10, 12:49 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Blu Man
Spoiler:
Possible, but I doubt it. Marion's character is clearly French, Caine, not so much.
Spoiler:
Caine is in Paris. Caine has custody of Mal's children. Whether you buy this theory or not, Caine's definitely Mal's dad. The grandmother must be French.
Old 07-17-10, 12:54 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I love how they spend so much time building Ellen Page's character up as this super talented maze architect, only to have her tell them where all the shortcuts are.
Page's character ended up being pretty much unnecessary to the story, but was necessary to the movie, as her "new-ness" provided an excuse for exposition that the audience needed. That being said, I wish they had used her character's outsider status to generate a little more levity into the proceedings. Or a little personal interaction between her and JGL would have given their moment together more resonance.
Old 07-17-10, 12:58 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

I don't understand all the confusion about Caines Character. He is Mal's father, not Leo's.
Old 07-17-10, 01:02 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by discostu1337
I don't understand all the confusion about Caines Character. He is Mal's father, not Leo's.
Leo is American. Caine is British. Marion is French. Who could get confused by that?
Old 07-17-10, 01:17 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

The grandmother is clearly French and obviously Mal's mother (you can hear her briefly in the background of the phone conversation with Cobb's kids). I was under the impression that Caine was Mal's father and not Cobb's (and that Cobb met Mal as a result of working so closely with Caine). I think this confusion could have been alleviated with a little more character work, although perhaps Nolan left it deliberately vague.

Originally Posted by droidguy1119
Saw it again. "Nordling" of AICN DMed his theory to me over Twitter and I like it a lot. It's like Boba Fett's
Spoiler:
Saito takes control of Cobb's totem when Cobb washes up in Saito's limbo. The movie shows him touching the gun, suggesting he shoots the both of them to get them out of limbo and back to reality, but what the movie would not show us in between is Saito immediately putting Cobb back under, and placing him in a "happy ending" dream. There's a bit of a hard cut there and Cobb could be said to be entering in the middle, as in a dream. The rest of the group is probably fucked too, because Saito bought the airline. Easier to send them all into dreamworld in some facility somewhere than send them awake to jail and have them reveal they planted an idea into Fischer. Saito gets what he wants, then fucks everyone over.
I think that theory is totally grasping at straws and isn't supported by what we see in the movie.
Old 07-17-10, 01:25 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I think that theory is totally grasping at straws and isn't supported by what we see in the movie.
Spoiler:
I was tired and got wrapped up in the details, but the point was you're not supposed to let someone touch your totem and yet Saito has it in his old man form. There's a really hard cut after he touches the gun, before Cobb wakes up, and I feel like a lot could have happened in there. It seems pretty clear, I think, that the last two minutes of the movie are a dream for some reason -- the kids wearing the same clothes, the light being the same, everything being perfect, etc. And in the real world, at the beginning, Saito shows he's a businessman, not their buddy.

The question is, who could Saito call? Why would Saito's word make a difference? I think it's easier to believe that Saito screwed over Cobb and his team than it is to believe Saito has enough leverage to phone up one person and solve all of Cobb's legal problems.
Old 07-17-10, 01:33 PM
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Re: Inception (Nolan, 2010)- The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by droidguy1119
Spoiler:
I was tired and got wrapped up in the details, but the point was you're not supposed to let someone touch your totem and yet Saito has it in his old man form. There's a really hard cut after he touches the gun, before Cobb wakes up, and I feel like a lot could have happened in there. It seems pretty clear, I think, that the last two minutes of the movie are a dream for some reason -- the kids wearing the same clothes, the light being the same, everything being perfect, etc. And in the real world, at the beginning, Saito shows he's a businessman, not their buddy.

The question is, who could Saito call? Why would Saito's word make a difference? I think it's easier to believe that Saito screwed over Cobb and his team than it is to believe Saito has enough leverage to phone up one person and solve all of Cobb's legal problems.

Spoiler:
He washed up on the beach in a daze, and Saito's men grabbed him right away taking his suff. I am pretty sure Cobb didn't have the wits, or time to defend his totem.

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