RagingBull80

People are still butt-hurt over Juno being such a big hit. That's when I noticed all the Page-hate. If Juno never happened she wouldn't have nearly the amount of hate she has on these boards.

dino88

Whoops, I seem to have stumbled into another Dark Knight thread. Off to look for the Inception thread.

Raul3

Yep, that was pretty clear to me too. He even hesitates when he notices is the same set and the kids doing the same, that's why he starts rolling his totem. But for us it should be pretty clear, same set, same age, same clothes, etc.

Supermallet

Better story? No way. Inception is a heist movie with a sci-fi twist. The Dark Knight is a sprawling urban drama. No contest there.

Better design? In what sense? The hotel has some interesting design elements, but that's about it.

The effects? Better than flipping that truck or smashing the helicopter in TDK? Nah.

The direction? No way. The Dark Knight is an incredible tightrope walk. Notice how it almost seems to go off the rails when The Joker is at the height of his anarchy. A really excellent job. Not that Inception is bad, but it's not as stunning as TDK in its execution.

And Inception's flaws are so much more noticeable as well. Yes, I've seen people pick apart TDK, but not till months or even a year afterwards. With Inception the issues are evident the moment you walk out of the theater. It's not even Nolan's second best film, which would be Memento, or his third or fourth best.

I haven't liked her since Hard Candy, where I was siding with the pedophile against her. She didn't do much in X-Men 3, but that movie is so bad that everyone involved gets a black mark, including Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan. Juno was, of course, absolutely wretched, and since then she's been playing these snarky parts. Inception was the first time I didn't mind seeing her on screen.

RagingBull80

Most people know her from the movies listed above and the characters are similar in the snarky comment/attitude department (excluding Inception). Inception is the first time I've seen her play something other than a Juno-type youngster and I thought she pulled it off decently. Granted, I haven't seen really anything else she's been in other than the movies listed above so maybe she's done it before.

Solid Snake

uh...smashing the helicopter isn't really smashing a helicopter, that was CG the moment it hits the wires and goes down.. It's a helicopter frame at best when it hits the truck, big difference. The last time I saw a great stunt or effect of a real helicopter was probably T2, can't remember anything else atm. The Trailer flipping was easily THE best effect in TDK.

I'll agree to disagree. I like TDK more than Inception though. Ain't nothing taking that away until maybe BB3 (which is hard to do so I bet).

Supermallet

She was also extra snarky in Smart People or whatever that movie was called with Dennis Quaid.

Edit: Yes, I know the helicopter was CGI after it hits the wires, but as much of it that could be in-camera was. Still an impressive setpiece. Hell, that whole sequence of escorting Harvey Dent in the van was more impressive than anything in Inception.

Solid Snake

damn..never heard of that film.

RagingBull80

I'm pretty sure she'll be doomed to being typecast as the smartass youngster for a long while.

Supermallet

Hopefully Inception will help pull her out of that phase, because I don't think she's necessarily awful, but I'll shoot myself if I have to see her play a wiser than her years sarcastic teen again.

Solid Snake

Remember...whatever role she gets..she's getting them. If she gets typecast and keeps getting them..that's her fault. IF that's what she doesn't like...if she doesn't mind it..well..that's all her too.

RagingBull80

The van sequence in TDK is one of my favorite sequences of any film period. But you have to admit that Levitt in the hotel sequence was pretty badass.

Supermallet

Yeah, it was. I'm not trying to make it sound like Inception is a bad movie, just not at the level of Nolan's best films. But as technically great as the hotel sequence was, it didn't thrill me the way any of TDK's set pieces did.

Solid Snake

I'll agree that I could probably watch that whole damn chase and never be bored by it. That's some damn fine action in there. And I will go further to say that I'd rather watch that over Inception as a whole..or even TDK for that matter. ONLY in it's IMAX framing as well. BUT my opinion of the film still stands.

dave-o

Count me in the camp that sees the ending as him making peace with his "perfect" dream in limbo. Between the kids being the same age, wearing the same clothes, being in the exact same position, with the same lighting, add to that the fact that the top doesn't stop spinning and just prior to entering the house there is a hard cut from the airport to the house and to me it = dream.

I am also leaning towards the whole movie being a dream and possibly that his wife was right. The thing that makes me think this the most is the begining of the film. We start with Cobb and old man Seito, then boom... he is there with young Seito trying to steal something for him for some unknown reason, hired by some corporation that sounds and awful lot like Cobb's name....and then he becomes friends with Seito and works for him? All very surreal and with really no backstory or explanation of how he got there in the first place, which was not so subtly emphasized throughout the movie. Plus, I think the shallowness of the characters was purposeful as sort of a clue that this is all in Cobb's mind. Just my 2 cents....

Although I do like the above posted theory that he went into the dream in Mombassa and never out....hmmmmm.

RagingBull80

Suprmallet, I think that your expectations were just too high, understandably of course (especially since you've stated as much). I felt that this film fits in perfectly in the Nolan film universe.

I know you've stated your position with several posts already in this thread but what are a few things that could have been done to make the film better in your opinion Suprmallet?

Solid Snake

I'll go further to say that...no matter what I think of Inception, I'm more excited for BB3.

Supermallet

For one, more backstory on the other characters. Someone else mentioned an Eames/Arthur spin-off film being potentially more interesting than this, and I agree. By putting SO much focus on Cobb, it showed the deficiencies in that particular story, as I for one didn't care much about Cobb and Mal. By making everyone else nothing but blank pages on which to write the story, it robs the film of its impact when something happens to them. Saito's fate in particular should have been nail-biting, but since we know nothing about him, how are we meant to care?

I also would have put more emphasis on the prep for the job, seeing how Ariadne was making the dream worlds, and not copped out at the end by telling everyone to use a shortcut.

Those two things would have helped just from the start. You've got a great ensemble. Give them something to do other than relentlessly move the plot forward.

I feel, in theory, a director's cut could alleviate some of these issues, but as it is, I think the movie shortchanges itself.

tylergfoster

The truck flipping is the best part of the van sequence in TDK, IMO. One of the things I would slip in the theater occasionally to hear the audience's reaction when I worked at the theater.

I don't think Page would have as much hate, but she wouldn't have more fans, either. The thing about what Suprmallet said about Hard Candy is (spoiler for Hard Candy)

That said, I might have stuck around after the Hard Candy screening and met her if I knew she was gonna turn into a big star. She was there when I saw it before it opened way back when. She was talking about going and being in X3 at that point. I remember her seeming shy and wearing a leather jacket.

Supermallet

Even more spoilers for Hard Candy:

Blu Man

Never thought of that. Very interesting and plausible theory. Nice.

Li

I really did enjoy this movie, but after reading some of the comments here I'm starting to see a lot of its flaws. I have to agree with comments about the action. How any bullets were shots at them? Hundreds? Only one managed to hit its mark? Why do some shots kill them and wake the person immediately and some that would no doubt be fatal in real life do not? The snow covered mountain scene was especially bad in that sense. Too much uninteresting, unnecessary action in that scene. It never felt like the characters were any real danger of getting hurt because the drones shooting at them were so incompetent.

I also had a problem with the time frame in each of the dreams. Some times things felt like they were happening simultaneously, while not in the others. It didn't feel at all consistent. If 5 minutes is 1 hour is 12 hours is 6 days, shouldn't have played out very differently? Like they should have woken up in 15 minutes on the plane since there was so much more time in the dream world?

Despite a few nit-picky things, I had a ton of fun with this. It's a movie I'll want to see many more times. My parents are seeing it tomorrow and part of me wants to go see it again.

Supermallet

The reason that sometimes they would wake up and sometimes they wouldn't is that in a normal dream, you die, you wake up. But during the job, they were sedated, so instead of waking up, they'd go into limbo.

Li

Right, right... But what about the pain thing? You don't feel pain in dreams. Especially if you're sedated and couldn't wake up from something that would be painful.

slop101

Or as my equation puts it:
(Matrix + Ocean's 11) - fun = Inception