sfsdfd

quote:<HR>Originally posted by wrath88:
This goes out to sfsdfd--thank you for an intelligent, well stated, and nonemotional response, although I have to disagree with you. I think the romance worked very well, and that being the whole point of the movie makes it the best addition.<HR>

Well, as I noted above, I don't necessarily agree with everyone that the romance bit seemed artificial. Actually, I thought Leo and Kate had very good screen chemistry. I was just trying to summarize the views of "most" DVD Talkers here, that's all...

quote:<HR>Originally posted by wrath88:
That it was almost a remake of an earlier film doesn't really take away from it for me.<HR>

When the movie was playing in theaters, I heard some minor comments about A Night to Remember, but I disregarded them. Having later seen this film, though, I can understand why people were critical of Titanic during its release. Of course I understand what you write about Romeo + Juliet (by the way, have you seen Titus yet, with Anthony Hopkins? WOW - what a movie!) and Dracula, but picture this:

You go to the theater 10 years from now to see a new hit movie called Who Is David Stein? The movie features a group of six thugs gets arrested on a trumped-up charge, starting a romping adventure involving a shadowy, super-evil criminal kingpin named David Stein. Imagine that it features lines of dialogue such as, "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist," and "And like that... he's gone!" Imagine if the movie plays out almost identically to The Usual Suspects, but throws in some new computer-graphics effects, a love story, and a hit single from Bette Midler. Would you feel a bit cheated?

That's how many here felt about Titanic. Sure, most movies steal concepts from earlier films; but to borrow dialogue and entire scenes - basically to re-shoot the film for a modern audience - got on some peoples' nerves.

Anyway, I seem to be in the minority of people here who feel that varied opinions in the Forums is a plus! I come here to discuss my views of movies (and life in general, in the Other Forum) and see if anyone else has a different angle. Occasionally, I've changed my mind after considering what others have written. But this being the Internet, you'll always have many people (not pointing fingers at anyone here, just writing generally) that come here to assert their views and shout down all opponents. It's sad, but that's the nature of the medium.

Thanks for your comments, wraith88 - again, I hope the less enlightened opinions here don't dissuade you from posting again. And as soon as I see Blair Witch 2, you'll see a review from me here!

- David Stein


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Ever notice that professional female pool players are incredibly hot, but professional female bowlers look like bulldogs?

Why is that?

sfsdfd

quote:<HR>Originally posted by zhensel:
SFSDFD: You really can't let it get to you any more when a film gets an Oscar that it doesn't deserve. The Oscar's have been bought forever (except for every 5 years or so when they pick a foreign film *COUGH life is beautiful COUGH* to lend some legitimacy to their selections).<HR>

(off-topic) Obviously, this hit most people in retrospect since all of America saw it twice before the Oscars aired (yes, I'm exaggerating.) The more prominent example I was thinking of was Shakespeare in Love. I saw Saving Private Ryan on opening night, and although I recognized some of the more commonly criticized elements (the needless backstory, the sagging middle) I fell in love with it. After the Oscars aired and Shakespeare stole its thunder, I couldn't help but be a bit critical when I saw this film the next week. I sat through the whole thing thinking, "THIS is supposed to be a better film than SPR?!"

- David Stein


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Ever notice that professional female pool players are incredibly hot, but professional female bowlers look like bulldogs?

Why is that?

ViGiLaNzA

This movie sucked the sweat off a dead camel's nuts. It was truly vomitous extremus. Seriously, if someone forced you to either watch Book of Shadows or copulate with Yoda, just cut your eyes out and take Yoda

Frank Black

"NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"
"They're all gonna laugh at you!"

"NOOOOOOOOOO"

[This message has been edited by Frank Black (edited October 29, 2000).]

DrMcKittrick

Titanic was an excellent movie. And it deserved all of the oscars it received. The Patriot is one of my all time favorites.

What's so funny about all this is that the people who hate certain movies get them on DVD anyway either because 'They were cheap', 'they are for my wife and kids', 'they will show off my enormous sound system', or 'they are for the collection'. Get real.


Doc

ViGiLaNzA

DrMcKittrick, you should be banned from DVDTalk for liking that jingoistic, shallow stupidly-cliched piece of rats**t feces crawling with maggots and flies known as 'The Patriot.' As for 'Titanic'.....time will not be kind to this ten-ton turkey. It is the movie equivalent of Michael Jackson's 'Thriller': it was hugely popular, sold like crazy....and ten years from now no one will admit to liking it. This movie would've been better if it had a really big squid. Or if Old Rose accidentally slipped and fell off the side of the rig at the end. I pray to God studio execs don't come up with some way to make a sequel like having Retardo Dicrapio cloned from semen stains on Kate's dress. I couldn't believe it when I heard people actually getting teary when the Man in the Iron Closet drowned with his arms spread in Christ-pose. The only crying I did at this titanic waste of my time was for my hard-earned $7.75

badger1997

quote:<HR>Originally posted by ViGiLaNzA:
DrMcKittrick, you should be banned from DVDTalk for liking that jingoistic, shallow stupidly-cliched piece of rats**t feces crawling with maggots and flies known as 'The Patriot.' As for 'Titanic'.....time will not be kind to this ten-ton turkey. It is the movie equivalent of Michael Jackson's 'Thriller': it was hugely popular, sold like crazy....and ten years from now no one will admit to liking it. This movie would've been better if it had a really big squid. Or if Old Rose accidentally slipped and fell off the side of the rig at the end. I pray to God studio execs don't come up with some way to make a sequel like having Retardo Dicrapio cloned from semen stains on Kate's dress. I couldn't believe it when I heard people actually getting teary when the Man in the Iron Closet drowned with his arms spread in Christ-pose. The only crying I did at this titanic waste of my time was for my hard-earned $7.75<HR>

I'm getting sick and tired of the attitudes you and some other people display on here. Some people like the Patriot and think it's a good film and others don't. Neither are correct. Now lay off.



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"In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God."

ViGiLaNzA

Wrong badger. I am correct. They are not. Have a nice day.

eXcentris

There's a big difference between "good" films and films you "like". You can "like" a film in spite of it's shorcomings, i.e. be entertained, but that doesn't make it a "good" film. The biggest problem with today's audiences is that they fail to see what the shortcomings are and blindly accept ever diminishing standards in filmmaking.

Moogz

I liked Starship Troopers. Book of Shadows was a waste of a Friday night back in my hometown. Titanic got me laid, so I have a grudging respect for it. That's about it.

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~~moogz

"I got news for ya pal, you ain't leading but two things right now: Jack and Sh*t, and Jack left town."

JMLEWIS1

quote:<HR>Originally posted by ViGiLaNzA:
...It is the movie equivalent of Michael Jackson's 'Thriller': it was hugely popular, sold like crazy....and ten years from now no one will admit to liking it. <HR>

hey I don't know about anyone else, but I STILL like the Thriller video it scared the crap out of me when I was a kid

DrMcKittrick

Vigil,

I have to laugh at your comments. THank you for posting that. After just seeing Book of Shadows I needed a laugh. I think I'll go watch The Patriot on DVD right now.

Doc

BoBoish

Can't we all just get along?

I agree with Wrath88's points about the negativity on this forum and, judging from many of the above posts, he was correct. I don't particularly like the way he went about pointing that out, but it was valid nonetheless. I also lurked for quite a while before actually posting, but still don't participate as fully in discussions as I would like to because there are many in this forum that just can't carry out any sort of meaningful discussion.

As far as Book of Shadows, I had planned on waiting for video, but because of all the talk (good and bad) I think I'll probably have to catch it at the theater.

Oh, about critics. I read the paper and many review sites, but basically take it for nothing. I have actually found that I enjoy many movies more if I go in expecting little.

BTW...Vigilanza, please keep foolish comments to yourself.

Bo.

[This message has been edited by BoBoish (edited October 29, 2000).]

codefree

quote:<HR>Originally posted by badger1997:
i just don't understand why people aren't allowed to talk about movies they love without people putting them down.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion and it's jerks that rip into them for their tastes that makes some people afraid of posting on DVDtalk.
<HR>

I wholeheartedly agree! Since when is it wrong to state your opinion? Life would really suck if we all liked the same things.

BTW, The Blair Witch Project is in my top ten of all-time as well.

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CDTracker
DVDTracker
VideoGameTracker

sfsdfd

quote:<HR>Originally posted by ViGiLaNzA:
Wrong badger. I am correct. They are not. Have a nice day.<HR>

From what I've seen, the moderators are on the verge of revoking your posting privileges. Either you will learn that the DVD Talk community will not tolerate your abusive, derisive posts... or you will no longer be part of the DVD Talk community.

- David Stein


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Ever notice that professional female pool players are incredibly hot, but professional female bowlers look like bulldogs?

Why is that?

Blake

quote:<HR>Originally posted by BoBoish:
Oh, about critics. I read the paper and many review sites, but basically take it for nothing. I have actually found that I enjoy many movies more if I go in expecting little.

BTW...Vigilanza, please keep foolish comments to yourself.<HR>

I checked in on this thread late Saturday and thought that it could become a good thread with a fair amount of useful criticism. I later checked back and found most of the posts to be very civil and well stated. Then I look in now and I find posts by ViGiLaNzA which "sucked the sweat off a dead camel's nuts" as he so eloquently put it. Now I'm all for a good argument, and thanks Wrath for stepping up and posting your opinion and letting everyone else get their own views out, but to have a thread spoiled by a few bad posts is just a shame. I hope that in the future those of you who had nothing of substance to contribute to this thread will rethink what you are posting when you hit the "submit reply" button.

As for your view of critics, Bo, I agree with you completely. Even though I run my own movie review site, I don't expect any one to agree with me on every review, nor do I expect to agree with every one else's reviews. I just post to my site what I think of a movie and if you agree, fine - come visit again, if not - I'm sure there's another reviewer out there who you will agree with. As gotdvd? so perfectly put it,

quote:<HR>Life would really suck if we all liked the same things.<HR>

I wish I could comment on Blair Witch 2, but I saw a great movie instead this weekend, Billy Elliot (caution: clicking on the link will reveal my personal opinions on the movie, Billy Elliot).

=Blake=
|

Blake

quote:<HR>Originally posted by sfsdfd:
From what I've seen, the moderators are on the verge of revoking your posting privileges. Either you will learn that the DVD Talk community will not tolerate your abusive, derisive posts... or you will no longer be part of the DVD Talk community.<HR>

You are correct.

=Blake=
|

wrath88

I was mainly trying to accomplish 2 things with this thread:
1. See if it was possible to have meaningful discussion about movies without resorting to name-calling and childish phraseology.
2. To give people the courage to stand up for the movies that they like. Too often threads are so bogged down by "this sucks" comments that they become useless.

I'm sorry for my original adversarial tone in the thread, but it was directed toward people like ViGiLaNzA, who apparently got kicked off anyway.

I'm not at all opposed to people not liking a movie that I like, but I wish we could generate some meaningful discussions. In a forum that revolves mainly around movie lovers, too often threads degenerate into a sort of yes/no poll, instead of a discussion. I appreciate all of the discussion Titanic generated, and I learned a lot about the movie because of it.

Thanks to sfsdfd for pointing out the thing about "borrowing" from other movies; I see your point. In fact, this is one of the main reasons I didn't like the movie Go, as it seems like a cheap version of Pulp Fiction to me. As for A Night to Remember, I was not even aware of this movie, and I'm sure 90% of the people who saw Titanic also were unaware. From what I've heard, The Blair Witch Project is also a sort of rip-off of some older independent movie(s), but most people would never see them. So I guess they are all useful in their own right.

eXcentris--I agree with your comments (once again I state that I called the list my top 10 favorite movies). You seem to be rather knowledgable about what makes a movie "good," so maybe you could give me a few pointers. Now I know that movie-wise, The Patriot had a lot of short-comings, but it also got a lot of emotional response from me and almost everyone in the theaters, so I still claim it as a favorite. I am especially interested in comments about my top 3 (Dracula, Romeo + Juliet, Frankenstein), as I've heard little to nothing about these.

foxdvd

Sfsdfd is right. Titanic is the highest grossing movie of all time, and even adjusted for inflation, the highest grossing movie of all time world wide. While it is true that Gone with the Wind is number one movie in America adjusted for inflation, followed by Star Wars, and that Titanic is actually 5 or 6 in America adjusted for inflation, when you look at total world wide grosses, Titanic comes in at over 1.8 billion, and there is NO movie that can come even close. You could say that is unfair to Gone With the Wind because it never had big play dates overseas, but you can say the same thing about it being unfair to Titanic that Gone With the Wind had the opportunity to re re-released over and over throughout the years to build up it huge gross.


back to this thread

Oh, and your top ten list rules!...while I would only put Pulp Fiction on mine... it rules because you like it, and it was made by you..I wish other people could understand that...if you make a top then list, and then support why you like it, then that list rules.

ViGiLaNzA

leave chimps out of my edgu-k-shun

kenny79

quote:<HR>Originally posted by wrath88:
1. Bram Stoker's Dracula
2. Romeo + Juliet (with leo and claire)
3. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein
4. Titanic
5. Blair Witch Project
6. The Patriot
7. Magnolia
8. Pulp Fiction
9. The Usual Suspects
10. The Matrix<HR>

Most people need to learn the distinction between someone's favorite movies (i.e., what they like to watch) and what they think are great films. Clearly this is wrath88's list of favorite movies, not what he thinks are the top ten films of all time. Personally I think he hasn't seen enough of the truly great films, some of which were listed by Frank Black; on wrath88's list I would only consider Pulp Ficiton a "great film." In any case, you can't argue with taste because for the most part it is subjective.

Edited to add that given this last statement, saying BW2 is "excellent" is almost certainly wrong, given the general consensus of critics and the fact that I thought it was an awful movie (bad acting, dialogue, story, etc.). It would not be wrong to say that wrath88 liked BW2 a lot.

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The Official Other Forum Guy Who Doesn't Know He's Money

You met me at a very strange time in my life.

[This message has been edited by kenny79 (edited October 30, 2000).]

Groucho

quote:<HR>The Blair Witch Project was an excellent movie in my opinion, scariest of all time. People ran screaming out of the theater crying when I saw it.<HR>

Are you serious? I'm assuming that those people were under the impression that the film was real, otherwise such a reaction is an indicator of some sort of mental imbalance. I liked the film myself, but in no way did I find it scary.

I haven't seen BW2, but I got a message in my voicemail yesterday (I have been out of town for a week) from a friend who called with the express purpose of warning me not to see it. Funny stuff...

ViGiLaNzA

Blair Witch 2 should be used as an alternative to capitol punishment. Just strap the guy into his seat and keep his eyelids pried open with one of those aversion therapy machines from Clockwork Orange and play BW2 on a 24-hour-loop until the sucker cracks

sfsdfd

quote:<HR>Originally posted by ViGiLaNzA:
Blair Witch 2 should be used as an alternative to capitol punishment.<HR>

I wasn't aware we're punishing any capitol. Maybe you're talking about the fact that Washington D.C. has been afflicted with having the Clintons in town for eight years... I dunno.

- David Stein


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Ever notice that professional female pool players are incredibly hot, but professional female bowlers look like bulldogs?

Why is that?

[This message has been edited by sfsdfd (edited October 30, 2000).]

wlmowery

quote:<HR>Originally posted by sfsdfd:
I wasn't aware we're punishing any capitol. Maybe you're talking about the fact that Washington D.C. has been afflicted with having the Clintons in town for eight years... I dunno.

- David Stein

<HR>

Good one David.

As for the purpose of this thread. I agree most whole-heartedly with Wraith. I tend to consider myself a fairly intellegent, well-read and discriminating patron of the arts... That said, I happen to thoroughly enjoy movies like Titanic and Bram Stoker's Dracula. Were they cinematically great beasts, maybe or maybe not depending on how exactly you rate such things. Did I find them enjoyable. You're darn tootin'... .

I almost always read this section of the forum, and I don't think I have ever responded prior to this due to what I feel is an often elitist attitude by some posters. I enjoy action films, not necessarily for the development of the cinematic arts that these films feature, , but mainly because I find them to be great methods of escapism and entertainment... I think both are valid purposes for making a movie. However, a majority of the action films I find enjoyable are often ridiculed and demeaned by those claiming some artistic high ground. So you don't like Mission: Impossible. Fine. But don't resort to petty name calling and personal attacks to make yourself feel more "superior" to those who do find such a movie a great way to spend a Saturday evening...

I'll just summarize by saying I couldn't agree more with David's initial analysis here. Feel free to discuss the pictures that you enjoy, feel free to discuss the cinematic merit of films, but please try to avoid the personal attacks and elitism which makes the reviews section of DVDTalk intimidating to others...

Wayne