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Who's your favorite martial artist?

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View Poll Results: Pick your favorite martial artist
Bruce Lee
36.59%
Jackie Chan
15.85%
Jet Li
15.85%
Sammo Hung
4.88%
Yuen Biao
2.44%
Donnie Yen
7.32%
Tony Jaa
2.44%
Gordion Liu
1.22%
Other
13.41%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

Who's your favorite martial artist?

Old 12-19-09, 12:48 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

I'd recommend Jackie's Police Story Trilogy.
Old 12-19-09, 01:03 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Traditionally trained, fought successfully in the ring, and a really good actor to boot, IMO---Shaw Brothers star Chen Kuan Tai:

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Old 12-19-09, 01:14 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
Well favorite is one thing, and for that my choice it Jet Li.

Most legitimate is another thing, and Jet Li also takes that. I forget how many gold medals he won at the Chinese Wushu championship but it was way over 10. He is a prodigy at the stuff. He was defeating older, far more experienced people in his early teens.
I'm a huge Jet Li fan, and he's undeniably an incredibly skilled individual. That being said though, the Chinese sport wushu that he won medals at, particularly at that time, was more or less just dance/acrobatic routines, and the weapons they used were not much more than extremely light toys. In the 50's the Chinese Communists largely hated the traditional Chinese martial arts, and they altered them drastically, removing most of the serious fighting aspects and training, and instead turned them into visually impressive, acrobatic performance routines. That's not to say that the practitioners weren't incredible athletes--they were---but they weren't learning (or trying to learn) to actually fight. I think in recent years the mainland Chinese have been trying to bring back more of the martial aspects, and the full contact sparring.
Old 12-19-09, 01:19 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Oh, and as far as screen fighters, I'll also throw out a nod to little Thai cutie Jeeja Yanin from Chocolate. No wires, no stunt doubles, no CGI:

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Old 12-19-09, 01:33 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Maxflier
Van Damme
Old 12-19-09, 02:41 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

How about Ken Lo, Jackie Chan's bodyguard? Not a movie star, but I have rarely seen a fighter as flexible or in control of his legs. Awesomeness starts at 1:30.
Old 12-19-09, 02:47 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

That fight is one of the best I've seen

at Visitor Q: yes, the drunken master films are awesome, as evidenced by the above clip
Old 12-19-09, 04:46 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

I'd say that Chan's greatest wealth of work is his HK 80s films. SOoooooo many highlights to just name. The 90s were 50/50. 00s..ehhhhhh not so great sadly. I'd loved to see Sammo, Yuen, and Jackie together again in a film.
Old 12-19-09, 05:32 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
In the 50's the Chinese Communists largely hated the traditional Chinese martial arts, and they altered them drastically, removing most of the serious fighting aspects and training, and instead turned them into visually impressive, acrobatic performance routines. That's not to say that the practitioners weren't incredible athletes--they were---but they weren't learning (or trying to learn) to actually fight. I think in recent years the mainland Chinese have been trying to bring back more of the martial aspects, and the full contact sparring.
I'm not sure that's entirely true. Most of the famous "martial artists" were trained at a very young age in Peking Opera type schools which had a very long tradition of forming entertainers/performance artists. Training normally included a grueling schedule of stretching, acrobatics, acting, dance, music and martial arts. The best students would go on the road and perform at various venues. Since only 7 students would perform at a time, they were known as the "Seven Little Fortunes". Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan, Yuen Biao, Corey Yuen... all trained at such schools.

Plus, traditional Chinese martial arts are based on defensive moves, not offense, which is why you see fights lasting half an hour because it's all about countering your opponents moves. It was Bruce Lee that changed all that with his "Jeet Kun Do".

The documentary "Chop Socky" gives a pretty good overview of the evolution of martial arts in HK cinema:

http://www.amazon.com/Chop-Socky-Cin...1265351&sr=1-1

P.S. There's quite a bit of wire work in "Chocolate". Just watch the extras on the Blu-ray.

Last edited by eXcentris; 12-19-09 at 05:36 PM.
Old 12-19-09, 05:50 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

To be exact, for those not in the know, those 4 you mentioned were part of the 7 Little Fortunes and were at the same school at the same time. So strictly speaking I think the Fortunes were only with Instructor/Master(not sure what his title is) Yuen.
Old 12-19-09, 05:56 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by eXcentris
I'm not sure that's entirely true. Most of the famous "martial artists" were trained at a very young age in Peking Opera type schools which had a very long tradition of forming entertainers/performance artists. Training normally included a grueling schedule of stretching, acrobatics, acting, dance, music and martial arts. The best students would go on the road and perform at various venues. Since only 7 students would perform at a time, they were known as the "Seven Little Fortunes". Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan, Yuen Biao, Corey Yuen... all trained at such schools.

Plus, traditional Chinese martial arts are based on defensive moves, not offense, which is why you see fights lasting half an hour because it's all about countering your opponents moves. It was Bruce Lee that changed all that with his "Jeet Kun Do".
Sorry, that's completely inaccurate. Peking Opera, which the "Seven Fortunes" and many other movie stars were trained in (in HK and Taiwan), is something completely separate from the sport Wushu that the mainland Chinese created. Jet Li, unlike the HK stars you mentioned, is from the mainland, and he has no Peking Opera background, he has a modern Wushu background.

Also, traditional Chinese arts are not based on "defensive moves"---they're based on defeating your opponent as quickly as possible, as are the real martial arts of every country. The reason you see fights lasting half an hour is because that choreography is more exciting for the movie viewer, not because it's realistic.

( I'm honestly not trying to be an a-hole here, and I don't claim to be an expert, but I have been involved in this rather seriously for a number of years: http://www.myspace.com/chinese_sword_league )


Originally Posted by eXcentris
P.S. There's quite a bit of wire work in "Chocolate". Just watch the extras on the Blu-ray.
I didn't notice any wirework for the star, and I thought I had read a blurb that she didn't use any---but I may be mistaken. The DVD I have doesn't have any extras, so if you say they said they used wires, I'll take your word for it.
Old 12-20-09, 02:51 AM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
The reason you see fights lasting half an hour is because that choreography is more exciting for the movie viewer, not because it's realistic.
I'm pretty sure I've heard Jackie Chan say almost the exact same thing.
Old 12-20-09, 03:00 AM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

I'm all about the Yen.
Old 12-20-09, 11:28 AM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
Sorry, that's completely inaccurate. Peking Opera, which the "Seven Fortunes" and many other movie stars were trained in (in HK and Taiwan), is something completely separate from the sport Wushu that the mainland Chinese created. Jet Li, unlike the HK stars you mentioned, is from the mainland, and he has no Peking Opera background, he has a modern Wushu background.
I know that Jet Li had a different background and I don't know how Communists altered martial arts in real life. My point was simply that martial arts films have always been about "performance" and elaborate choreographies more than about pure display of fighting skills because of it's roots in Peking Opera. So although that probably wasn't clear, I wasn't really trying to contradict you.

Also, traditional Chinese arts are not based on "defensive moves"---they're based on defeating your opponent as quickly as possible, as are the real martial arts of every country. The reason you see fights lasting half an hour is because that choreography is more exciting for the movie viewer, not because it's realistic.
Yes, as I stated above, it's Bruce Lee who brought realism to martial films. He essentially developped his own fighting style based on efficiency and econonomy of movements because he knew that Shaolin kung fu, wing chun and other derivatives were simply not very good at "defeating your opponent as quickly as possible". And a lot of Chinese traditional martial arts masters were really pissed off at him.

Interesting to discuss really, but we're getting a tad besides the point.
Old 12-20-09, 11:34 AM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC
To be exact, for those not in the know, those 4 you mentioned were part of the 7 Little Fortunes and were at the same school at the same time. So strictly speaking I think the Fortunes were only with Instructor/Master(not sure what his title is) Yuen.
Yup, they all trained under the same "sifu" (master), Yu Jim Yuen. And the tradition was that they take their master's name. So Sammo Hung was known as Yuen Lung, Jackie Chan as Yuen Lou (or Lo), and so on...
Old 12-20-09, 12:15 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by eXcentris
I know that Jet Li had a different background and I don't know how Communists altered martial arts in real life. My point was simply that martial arts films have always been about "performance" and elaborate choreographies more than about pure display of fighting skills because of it's roots in Peking Opera. So although that probably wasn't clear, I wasn't really trying to contradict you.
Right, and I didn't mean to contradict what you said about the Peking Opera performers---they went through incredible training at a very young age. And yes, Peking Opera has been a HUGE influence on HK martial arts films---and I would argue that's the main reason they generally look so different from Japanese martial arts movies.


Originally Posted by eXcentris
Yes, as I stated above, it's Bruce Lee who brought realism to martial films. He essentially developped his own fighting style based on efficiency and econonomy of movements because he knew that Shaolin kung fu, wing chun and other derivatives were simply not very good at "defeating your opponent as quickly as possible". And a lot of Chinese traditional martial arts masters were really pissed off at him.

Interesting to discuss really, but we're getting a tad besides the point.
Well.......that's the Bruce Lee myth . I would argue that a lot of traditional Chinese martial artists throughout history used their skills effectively in real life or death situations--particularly during the Japanese invasion. Bruce, aside from some streetfights as a kid, never even got in the ring against the best fighters of his day. Alright, now that I've incurred the wrath of the Bruce fans, I'm gettin' out of here before the tomatoes start flyin'
Old 12-20-09, 12:34 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by visitor Q
Oh I don't doubt Chan's skills - I just don't take the guy serious enough. But I appreciate the recommendations ...I really need to see his earlier works. Are the Drunken Master films some of his best highlights?
DRUNKEN MASTER and DRUNKEN MASTER II (released in English as LEGEND OF DRUNKEN MASTER) are two very different films by different, if both highly-regarded, directors (Yuen Wo Ping and Lau Kar Leung) and made 16 years apart. Both are comedies, but I think DMII is probably funnier. Despite that, DMII has some of Chan's best fight scenes ever. Particularly the climax. I think that's Ken Lo he fights. I still recommend DM I and II, as well as two films made around the same time as DM I, as the best showcases for Chan's kung fu skills, the other two being SNAKE IN THE EAGLE'S SHADOW and YOUNG MASTER.
Old 12-20-09, 12:49 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
Well.......that's the Bruce Lee myth . I would argue that a lot of traditional Chinese martial artists throughout history used their skills effectively in real life or death situations--particularly during the Japanese invasion. Bruce, aside from some streetfights as a kid, never even got in the ring against the best fighters of his day. Alright, now that I've incurred the wrath of the Bruce fans, I'm gettin' out of here before the tomatoes start flyin'
Precisely.

Some notion that Chinese martial arts wasn't/isn't the most refined and effective on the planet, refined over thousands of years, and solely aimed at immediate victory is nonsense. Bruce Lee didn't have the respect of actual masters for good reason.

I had the pleasure of meeting a Chan Buddhism monk and being a subject and helper in a demonstration he did. He was amazing, as you might imagine, he was one of only a half dozen in this country at that time IIRC. He could have killed me with a punch or two in the blink of an eye. The same with several Korean masters I've met and assisted in demos, blink of an eye and you would be gone. The same with a Shinto priest from Japan who was a master of Aikido that I also had the luck to meet and assist.
Old 12-20-09, 01:15 PM
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I can't believe Van Damme is not on that list. He's one of the great martial artist for having the fastest leg kick.
Old 12-20-09, 02:17 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
Precisely.

Some notion that Chinese martial arts wasn't/isn't the most refined and effective on the planet, refined over thousands of years, and solely aimed at immediate victory is nonsense.
Which is of course why Athenian sprinters from antiquity would beat Usain Bolt.
Old 12-20-09, 06:37 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi
Bruce, aside from some streetfights as a kid, never even got in the ring against the best fighters of his day. Alright, now that I've incurred the wrath of the Bruce fans, I'm gettin' out of here before the tomatoes start flyin'
If you research Bruce more you will find out that he wasn't training to be in the ring but trained for real life situations. I mean no fucking around; jab your eyes out and kick you in the nuts. That's the type of fighter he was. He did however coach some of the best fighters of his time and they regularly won matches. Chuck Norris, Bob Wall and Joe Lewis are three that come to mind. In inteviews with them they said Bruce knew how to get the best out fighters. I'm more likely to believe them than someone who has never met him or trained with him.
Old 12-20-09, 06:56 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Originally Posted by mrhan
If you research Bruce more you will find out that he wasn't training to be in the ring but trained for real life situations. I mean no fucking around; jab your eyes out and kick you in the nuts. That's the type of fighter he was. He did however coach some of the best fighters of his time and they regularly won matches. Chuck Norris, Bob Wall and Joe Lewis are three that come to mind. In inteviews with them they said Bruce knew how to get the best out fighters. I'm more likely to believe them than someone who has never met him or trained with him.
I think everyone who trained with Bruce said he was incredibly gifted physically, extremely quick and strong, and he was very intelligent. Here's an interesting interview with Joe Lewis, and he talks about Bruce:

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/joelewis.html
Old 12-20-09, 07:28 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Donnie Yen

His work in Iron Monkey continues to awe me to this day (and is one of my favorite Martial Arts films)
Old 12-20-09, 08:16 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

As far as modern martial artists, I have to go with Donnie Yen and Wu Jing.

But, my all-time favorite is Chuck Norris. And all-around good guy and good role model. I own most of his movies and every single season of Walker Texas Ranger. My favorite is the Delta Force. However, once he got into his late 50's, he stopped doing his own fights and you can easily notice a stunt double with a wig, especially in the later seasons of Walker. He's been essentially retired since 2005 after he did the last Walker Texas Ranger reunion movie.
Old 12-20-09, 08:29 PM
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Re: Who's your favorite martial artist?

Steven Segal

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