Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk
Reload this Page >

Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Community
Search
Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters
View Poll Results: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread
25.00%
20.00%
26.25%
9.69%
6.56%
3.44%
3.44%
0.94%
0.94%
0.31%
1.25%
James Cameron can kiss my skinny/fat ass!
2.19%
Voters: 320. You may not vote on this poll

Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 12-27-09, 05:09 PM
  #476  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Duluth, GA, USA
Posts: 37,797
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RD1973
Any difference in gravity must be minimal since nobody was bouncing around like on the moon.

And Grace's avatar just looked off.
The moon's gravity is 1/6 of earth's gravity, and appears to be a lot further away than Pandora was to its planet, relatively speaking. At least the script addressed the difference in gravity, and the atmosphere as it pertained to human habitation on Pandora.
Old 12-27-09, 05:15 PM
  #477  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Duluth, GA, USA
Posts: 37,797
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
SIGH--- Yes believe it Patman. Cheaper or not, integrated into Doc-style or not the CGI Aliens in D9 looked 100 times more realistic and detailed than the Navi.
Nothing more to discuss, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Old 12-27-09, 05:42 PM
  #478  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Neytiri had nicer curves and her eyes were cuter.


Spoiler:
Yes, I definitely have a thing for Neytiri (and I feel a little weird about that). Grace, not so much.
Old 12-27-09, 05:44 PM
  #479  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Patman
The moon's gravity is 1/6 of earth's gravity, and appears to be a lot further away than Pandora was to its planet, relatively speaking. At least the script addressed the difference in gravity, and the atmosphere as it pertained to human habitation on Pandora.
I'm just saying I didn't buy the helicopter picking up the trailer. It didn't LOOK credible.
Old 12-27-09, 05:46 PM
  #480  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Formerly known as "Solid Snake PAC"/Denton, Tx
Posts: 39,239
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

I loved Grace's avatar. Everytime I saw it I just thought..my god...that's so fucking real looking. And I agree on it being a 1st gen Avatar. On the 2nd viewing I totally did not notice that Jake's avatar still had the 5 fingers over the Na'vi's 4 fingered hand. Neat little detail.
Old 12-27-09, 05:50 PM
  #481  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Duluth, GA, USA
Posts: 37,797
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RD1973
I'm just saying I didn't buy the helicopter picking up the trailer. It didn't LOOK credible.
Also, it's a military-grade helicopter, I really don't see the big deal about it lifting a trailer.
Old 12-27-09, 05:56 PM
  #482  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Formerly known as "Solid Snake PAC"/Denton, Tx
Posts: 39,239
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Yeah...I mean...it's the future and it's from the military. Seems plausible to me.
Old 12-27-09, 06:00 PM
  #483  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Duluth, GA, USA
Posts: 37,797
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

It's not like it was hauling a trailer filled with unobtainium or anything else that dense...
Old 12-27-09, 06:14 PM
  #484  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dr Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Posts: 18,946
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RD1973
I'm just saying I didn't buy the helicopter picking up the trailer. It didn't LOOK credible.
We've had helicopters, here on boring old earth, that can pick up and transport tanks, boats, jets, APCs, etc, for decades.

A tank is amazingly heavy, that trailer in the film is a piece of aluminum foil by comparison. Considering those things in the film had dual turboprop setups the lifting capacity is actually well within reason.

Here's an old B&W photo of a house being carried:

Old 12-27-09, 06:54 PM
  #485  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 63,287
Received 1,805 Likes on 1,127 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I guess this goes back to my childhood desire to marry Sigourney Weaver circa 1979.
No, I hear you man. Sigourney is a beautiful woman.
Old 12-27-09, 07:00 PM
  #486  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
fumanstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55,349
Received 26 Likes on 14 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

I thought Sigourney and her Avatar's face looked kind of man-ish. Not hot at all for me.
Old 12-27-09, 07:04 PM
  #487  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
dan30oly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,750
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Saw it last night.

Special effects: 4.25
Story: 1.0
Old 12-27-09, 07:28 PM
  #488  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Duluth, GA, USA
Posts: 37,797
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by fumanstan
I thought Sigourney and her Avatar's face looked kind of man-ish. Not hot at all for me.
Thought she looked like a hybrid of a blue thundercat with a na'vi. Her first generation avatar kept the human nose.

Old 12-27-09, 07:30 PM
  #489  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse
We've had helicopters, here on boring old earth, that can pick up and transport tanks, boats, jets, APCs, etc, for decades.

A tank is amazingly heavy, that trailer in the film is a piece of aluminum foil by comparison. Considering those things in the film had dual turboprop setups the lifting capacity is actually well within reason.

Here's an old B&W photo of a house being carried:

If the helicopter looked like that, i would have believed it. As it is, I still don't buy it. But its just a nitpick anyway.
Old 12-27-09, 07:36 PM
  #490  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
fumanstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55,349
Received 26 Likes on 14 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

That helicopter looks a lot more flimsy then the military ones we see in the film.
Old 12-27-09, 08:01 PM
  #491  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dr Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Posts: 18,946
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by RD1973
If the helicopter looked like that, i would have believed it. As it is, I still don't buy it. But its just a nitpick anyway.
Well... fair enough.

You might want to familiarize yourself with what military helicopters have been doing since the Vietnam war. You'll be surprised, and understand the point I was making a little better.

A tank weighs a lot more than a mobile home with a few pods in it.
Old 12-27-09, 08:23 PM
  #492  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,150
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC
I loved Grace's avatar. Everytime I saw it I just thought..my god...that's so fucking real looking. And I agree on it being a 1st gen Avatar. On the 2nd viewing I totally did not notice that Jake's avatar still had the 5 fingers over the Na'vi's 4 fingered hand. Neat little detail.
Also, you might notice the Na'vi have a bigger space between their big toe and the rest of their toes than Jake's avatar does.
Old 12-27-09, 09:00 PM
  #493  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,923
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

this was one of the worst movies I've ever seen
have people forgotten what a good movie is?

this was on the level of the garbage-fest that was 10,000 BC, awful writing, one cliche after another, full of special effects but little imagination. No sense of pace, it was just a mess. Cameron who is usually a master of action set pieces and creating space, was apparently snoozing just like his main character.

I was very critical of District 9, but compared to Avatar, it is a masterpiece.

Also, it doesnt hold a candle to DANCES WITH WOLVES-- doesn't have an ounce of that movie's heart and soul, or sense of place.

One movie I can compare it to however is 10,000 BC. Give me one reason why that is a bad movie and this is good, they are nearly the same level of crap.

Watching this movie, I was embarrassed for everyone involved. It must have been written in the 90's because in the last 10 years we have seen a hundred of these.
Old 12-27-09, 09:02 PM
  #494  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 8,073
Received 217 Likes on 130 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

In terms of personal favorites, I'd rank it 6th of the year for me, behind Up, Star Trek, Watchmen, The Hurt Locker and (500)Days of Summer. Good acting all around with a very cliche'd story that was alright in most places, but a little thin from time to time. The CGI was good, but at no point did I think 'wow, those things look real!' That applies to the Navi, the animal life and the plant life. I'd agree with those who mentioned District 9 having more realistic looking CGI integration. Pandora was pretty enough, but I expected more given the time and money put into this. In terms of story, I thought it was pretty lame they had to rely on a MacGuffin as the driving point of the plot. I had other minor gripes with the writing, but that was the most glaring. Anyway, it was entertaining enough, just not the timeless masterpiece some were expecting or others are still claiming it is.
Old 12-27-09, 09:21 PM
  #495  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 43,396
Received 1,653 Likes on 1,032 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Also, you might notice the Na'vi have a bigger space between their big toe and the rest of their toes than Jake's avatar does.
Why would anyone *want* to notice that?
Old 12-27-09, 09:30 PM
  #496  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Formerly known as "Solid Snake PAC"/Denton, Tx
Posts: 39,239
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

There's a lot of fucking detail you miss sometimes. For example the number of fingers.
Old 12-27-09, 10:44 PM
  #497  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Wow, this thread sounds like a Star Wars prequel thread. There are people that just didn't buy this movie, and rightfully so, and wonder what the hell everyone else is smoking (although in Dr. Mabuse's place, we do know what he was smoking while watching it).

And then you have people who continually praise this movie solely because of the visuals, despite the bad acting, despite the incredibly stupid story, despite the enormous plot holes.

Here's what's wrong with the story:

Spoiler:


The characters are completely one dimensional. They have absolutely no substance whatsoever. We never learn their motivations, their hopes, dreams, fears, and desires. The closest thing to approach a character is Sigourney Weaver's, because we learn a little about her backstory and her life before the events of the movie. She has that recycled, tough-yet-still-feminine quality she had in Aliens. But she's not the main character, and this clearly wasn't an ensemble film. Something's wrong when the most interesting character in the movie has almost no screen time and is not the main character.

The plot makes absolutely no sense. They apparently require this guy to work an Avatar to penetrate the Navi society and somehow convince them to leave. And they ensure that he's going to be a success at this by outfitting him with human clothes and a gun, and not bothering to teach him the Navi language. The Navi also seem to be able to immediately tell that he's not a real Navi. So how the fuck was he supposed to penetrate their culture? they know about humans, and they know about the avatars, so how is this going to fool them? and who the hell is he supposed to be, anyway?

So even if you take into account that maybe the Navi will accept a human who looks like a Navi, even though the Navi know that they can't trust the humans because they clearly want to destroy the planet and harvest its riches, why is this even necessary in the first place? it doesn't seem like their plan was any more elaborate than "shoot the tree down and bulldoze the place".

So later, when they finally attack the Navi, they decide to go to the one place on the planet where they know that their technological superiority will not give them the upper hand. So why the fuck did they bother to engage them in battle? are you telling me that the entire unit that can survive on this harsh world, not one person bothered to say

"hey, maybe we shouldn't attack. Seeing as how they're not a threat to us, have never been a threat to us, and will never be a threat to us, why not just take what we want? they can't stop us, and if they attack us, we can just mow them down."

Then there's a bunch of minor plot niggles I had:

First we see that the humans are somewhat afraid of the natives because they fire poison tipped arrows. Then later we see the arrows bouncing harmlessly off the ships. Then we see the arrows firing through their windows.

Okay, this might be a bit of stretch, because it's a fantasy movie and all, but seriously... how can humans, even though they're occupying an avatar, possibly know/perceive/understand/control the neural interface that the Navi use? it's not as if the humans are actually physically occupying the body of the avatar; it's just a signal that comes from an interface with the host (which also brings up another point - if they can build interfaces like this that are so highly advanced, why do they still man battle suits that clearly have similar interfaces? i'd imagine in this scenario, cost wouldn't be so much of an issue, seeing as how it might take 5 years to get reinforcements). So how does this work? the human brain isn't equipped for such an interface because we don't have such an appendage. Again, bit of a stretch, but it still bothered me the whole movie.


Last edited by Superboy; 12-27-09 at 10:48 PM.
Old 12-27-09, 11:14 PM
  #498  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
fumanstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55,349
Received 26 Likes on 14 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Superboy
Wow, this thread sounds like a Star Wars prequel thread. There are people that just didn't buy this movie, and rightfully so, and wonder what the hell everyone else is smoking (although in Dr. Mabuse's place, we do know what he was smoking while watching it).

And then you have people who continually praise this movie solely because of the visuals, despite the bad acting, despite the incredibly stupid story, despite the enormous plot holes.

Here's what's wrong with the story:
Avatar is currently at 83% on Rotten Tomatoes so critically, quite a few people like it so it might be one of the cases where you just have to chalk it up to other people not having the same problems that you do. I feel the same with District 9, where everyone else seems to love it.

Personally, I don't think the acting was bad at all, nor the story stupid, so it was easy for me to enjoy the movie even though I do have my own complaints about some of the plot details.

Regarding some of your points below, I just have a few of my own personal reactions.

Spoiler:


The characters are completely one dimensional. They have absolutely no substance whatsoever. We never learn their motivations, their hopes, dreams, fears, and desires. The closest thing to approach a character is Sigourney Weaver's, because we learn a little about her backstory and her life before the events of the movie. She has that recycled, tough-yet-still-feminine quality she had in Aliens. But she's not the main character, and this clearly wasn't an ensemble film. Something's wrong when the most interesting character in the movie has almost no screen time and is not the main character.
I would agree partly with this, as in my review of the movie I thought Jake's backstory should have been developed more. However, I didn't find Grace the most interesting character at all; Neytiri was for me.

The plot makes absolutely no sense. They apparently require this guy to work an Avatar to penetrate the Navi society and somehow convince them to leave. And they ensure that he's going to be a success at this by outfitting him with human clothes and a gun, and not bothering to teach him the Navi language. The Navi also seem to be able to immediately tell that he's not a real Navi. So how the fuck was he supposed to penetrate their culture? they know about humans, and they know about the avatars, so how is this going to fool them? and who the hell is he supposed to be, anyway?
That's why Grace was so pissed off about Jake in the program. Originally, it was supposed to be Jake's twin brother that HAD all that training, hence them insulting him for being a dumb soldier at the beginning. I don't recall exactly, but I also don't think that he was supposed to be found by the Na'vi at that point in time. It just happened they were attacked and split up and Jake was saved by Neytiri and started interacting with them; also, it was the Norm character that knew how to speak the language and it seemed like he was the one that was supposed to try and integrate with them, hence his being pissed off later when Jake is the one staying with the tribe/clan.

So even if you take into account that maybe the Navi will accept a human who looks like a Navi, even though the Navi know that they can't trust the humans because they clearly want to destroy the planet and harvest its riches, why is this even necessary in the first place? it doesn't seem like their plan was any more elaborate than "shoot the tree down and bulldoze the place".
Are you asking why it was necessary for the humans to try and integrate? Giovanni Ribisi's character explains this in the beginning, that ideally they don't want a war because of negative press, thus the attempts to do so diplomatically.

So later, when they finally attack the Navi, they decide to go to the one place on the planet where they know that their technological superiority will not give them the upper hand. So why the fuck did they bother to engage them in battle? are you telling me that the entire unit that can survive on this harsh world, not one person bothered to say

"hey, maybe we shouldn't attack. Seeing as how they're not a threat to us, have never been a threat to us, and will never be a threat to us, why not just take what we want? they can't stop us, and if they attack us, we can just mow them down."
All they knew was that their instruments wouldn't work in flight. Given the Colonel's war mongering, I imagine he thought it would still be a pretty easy fight. I don't really understand your pseudo quote though; what do you mean take what they want? They couldn't because it was under their giganto tree.

Then there's a bunch of minor plot niggles I had:

First we see that the humans are somewhat afraid of the natives because they fire poison tipped arrows. Then later we see the arrows bouncing harmlessly off the ships. Then we see the arrows firing through their windows.
Agreed, that was kind of silly although it looked like they were throwing larger weapons at the ships at the fight versus just smaller arrows earlier.

Okay, this might be a bit of stretch, because it's a fantasy movie and all, but seriously... how can humans, even though they're occupying an avatar, possibly know/perceive/understand/control the neural interface that the Navi use? it's not as if the humans are actually physically occupying the body of the avatar; it's just a signal that comes from an interface with the host (which also brings up another point - if they can build interfaces like this that are so highly advanced, why do they still man battle suits that clearly have similar interfaces? i'd imagine in this scenario, cost wouldn't be so much of an issue, seeing as how it might take 5 years to get reinforcements). So how does this work? the human brain isn't equipped for such an interface because we don't have such an appendage. Again, bit of a stretch, but it still bothered me the whole movie.
To be honest, I never think about these type of things so it doesn't bother me. I think these type of things are only a major issue when you happen to dislike the movie. There are just as many glaring plot holes in the Terminator movies that can be broken down similarly as far as Time Travel goes.


Last edited by fumanstan; 12-27-09 at 11:19 PM.
Old 12-28-09, 12:09 AM
  #499  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 11,311
Received 290 Likes on 211 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Superboy
Wow, this thread sounds like a Star Wars prequel thread. There are people that just didn't buy this movie, and rightfully so, and wonder what the hell everyone else is smoking (although in Dr. Mabuse's place, we do know what he was smoking while watching it).

This thread is absolutely nothing like any of the "Star Wars" prequel threads. "Avatar" is not following a trio of beloved films. It didn't have any shoes to fill. Or anything to compare to. And the majority of the people here have given "Avatar" 4 stars or higher (out of 5). I don't recall the majority of the people in any of the "Star Wars" prequel threads loving those films. Again, I said majority.
Old 12-28-09, 02:27 AM
  #500  
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Avatar (Cameron, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

Originally Posted by Patman
The moon's gravity is 1/6 of earth's gravity, and appears to be a lot further away than Pandora was to its planet, relatively speaking. At least the script addressed the difference in gravity, and the atmosphere as it pertained to human habitation on Pandora.
Gravity on a moon depends solely on the mass of the moon itself. The distance between the moon and the primary planet doesn't factor into it.


Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.