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-   -   What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?' (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/565968-whats-deal-nightmare-before-christmas.html)

Boba Fett 12-06-09 06:15 PM

What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I really don't get the obsession over this movie? Firstly, it irks me a bit that a lot of people call it Tim Burton's film (yes he wrote the story) and Henry Selick ends getting the shaft.

At best, it's an above average film, with some memorable music. It's almost as if the mass marketing of the movie on almost every type of product conceivable has convinced people even more that it's a better movie than it actually is.

Dr Mabuse 12-06-09 06:22 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
What's the deal with Ovaltine? Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it round tine.

CharlieK 12-06-09 06:53 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Boba Fett (Post 9874977)
It's almost as if the mass marketing of the movie on almost every type of product conceivable has convinced people even more that it's a better movie than it actually is.

:lol: Says the guy with the Boba Fett screen name!

PopcornTreeCt 12-06-09 07:09 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by CharlieK (Post 9875022)
:lol: Says the guy with the Boba Fett screen name!

This

naitram 12-06-09 07:37 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
Loved it when it came out (before the "merchandising"), still love it. A classic is a classic.

Go watch your DVDs.

DeputyDave 12-06-09 09:01 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by CharlieK (Post 9875022)
:lol: Says the guy with the Boba Fett screen name!

:lol: :up:

bunkaroo 12-06-09 11:11 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by naitram (Post 9875083)
Loved it when it came out (before the "merchandising"), still love it. A classic is a classic.

Yep.

Hot Topic decided this would be a cool thing to market so now it seems like it was a "merchandising" movie. It wasn't. It wasn't even that big when it came out from what I remember.

Boba Fett 12-06-09 11:31 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by CharlieK (Post 9875022)
:lol: Says the guy with the Boba Fett screen name!

Touchť sir.

Matthew Chmiel 12-07-09 01:43 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse (Post 9874991)
What's the deal with Ovaltine? Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it round tine.

http://vanpay.files.wordpress.com/20...infeld__1_.jpg
I just don't get it!

Troy Stiffler 12-07-09 07:17 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
You know, I still haven't sat down and watched this yet. I've seen parts on TV or whatever. But never watched it in full.

I watched Coraline not too long ago. And it was good. So 'Nightmare' has actually been in the back of my mind lately.

zombeaner 12-07-09 07:24 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I first saw this on opening night when I was a Freshman in high school and I thought it was amusing. I've since gone back to it and realized how layered and well made it is. Not mention the fact that it shows a world in which I would love to live. My wife loves it, my son loves it, it is an all around good time.

majorjoe23 12-07-09 08:12 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by bunkaroo (Post 9875361)
Yep.

Hot Topic decided this would be a cool thing to market so now it seems like it was a "merchandising" movie. It wasn't. It wasn't even that big when it came out from what I remember.

The decision to market it heavily also comes from the fact that there wasn't much Nightmare merchandise when the film originally came out, and that stuff was worth a fortune and going for tons on ebay. So clearly there was demand for more Nightmare stuff.

Solid Snake 12-07-09 10:35 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
Yeah, I love the flick. Don't remember a lot of stuff for it at the time..but probably what? 4-5 years ago shit started popping out like crazy for it. It's a film a lot people liked and remembered so..it's understandable, as much as I hate saying that, that people would want stuff from it. I just hate how it's everywhere in your face at times.

clckworang 12-07-09 10:50 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I will agree about the Henry Selick part of the first post. The film gets pushed so much as Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas that most people I speak to have no idea that he didn't direct it. In fact, some people have gotten very adamant about the fact the Burton did direct it ... until I take them to the movie's IMDB page.

Groucho 12-07-09 10:57 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
My only pet peeve with this movie is Disney's decision to remake a classic ride (Haunted Mansion) once a year with the characters from this movie.

I guess it could have been worse. They could have inserted Eddie Murphy in there like they did with Johnny Depp and Pirates of the Caribbean.

UAIOE 12-07-09 01:48 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I watched this movie after it first showed up on TV and didn't like it. I'm not sure what it was I didn't like, but I really didn't care for it at al.

Drop 12-07-09 02:29 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 9875946)
My only pet peeve with this movie is Disney's decision to remake a classic ride (Haunted Mansion) once a year with the characters from this movie.

I think it's pretty cool actually.

Anyway, so some people like the film, some don't. Okay, that's like any film. Could you be more specific about your criticisms, maybe we can have a good discussion about it's merits or lack of.

I personally really like the music, the visuals of the film, and the characters. I also enjoy the twist they take on Christmas, and the mashing up of 2 holidays. I think it's really interesting considering stores push Christmas earlier and earlier every year so the premise of the film isn't all that absurd.

And yes Selick did direct the film and deserves most of the credit for making it work, but it feels so much like a Burton film that having his named stamped on it isn't that absurd.

RyoHazuki 12-07-09 02:39 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
Boba Fett whats your real name or the name your dvdtalk reviews are posted under?

Poink 12-07-09 02:44 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I loved it when it came out; I was about 11 or 12. Haven't watched it in about 8 or 9 years since I bought the DVD, but I still have my original Jack Skellington, and Zero toys on display in my room.

I have no problem with the increased popularity / cult status of the movie. Beats the hell out of what "the kids" normally watch nowadays.

Also, when I see some hot teenage girl rocking a Nightmare Before Christmas hoodie or purse, I feel as if I might have a chance. Then I realize that they were maybe 2 years old when the movie came out.

Travis McClain 12-07-09 04:14 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
It can be confusing having Burton's name attached to the title, but I always just took it to be the same as "Ian Fleming's From Russia with Love" or "Bram Stoker's Dracula." Including the originator of a story isn't uncommon, and this was always Burton's story.

Others have already addressed the post facto continuity of the nature of the NBX merchandise, so I'll simply add that it's the closest thing to all-ages goth that has hit the mainstream, so there's that appeal to the imagery. As for the fact that the film went largely ignored in its initial release, I liken it to The Shawshank Redemption in that its popularity came later. So what? Art galleries are full of paintings now considered priceless that went derided and ignored during their artists's lifetimes. Public appreciation doesn't always happen on a marketing department's schedule.

As for the film itself, I always liked the mood of the thing, and how the done-to-death story of discovering the real meaning of Christmas was turned on its head; it's through Christmas that Jack Skellington discovers the real meaning of Halloween. Each holiday speaks to a different part of our society (at least, the parts that observe them), but they're very different parts. I like the dichotomy of these seemingly opposite holidays and the implications they hold for us. Then again, I've talked for years about going dressed as Santa Claus for Halloween just to confuse the hell out of little kids.

Solid Snake 12-07-09 04:47 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
You should totally dress as Santa.

caligulathegod 12-07-09 05:27 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
While Henry Selick was the animation talent behind the film, he's never been able to replicate the entertainment value of TBTNBC. Tim Burton provided the soul that has been severely lacking in Selick's subsequent films.

My Other Self 12-07-09 07:11 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I saw it in theaters upon its initial release in '93 ('94?) and enjoyed it as a kid. I watched it a couple times afterwards and it went from "Cool!" to "Meh. Nothing special." Then Hot Topic made it cool to like it and it became a cult classic and then I despised it. Still do. I'll never watch it again.

Hokeyboy 12-07-09 07:21 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I enjoyed NIGHTMARE long before I ever heard of or walked into a Hot Topic. But I also just got rid of a canoe I've had for nearly 20 years. :(

My Other Self 12-07-09 07:53 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 (Post 9876981)
I used to enjoy it until I tried to buy the DVD at WalMart and they asked to see my receipt. I threw it in the employee's face and ran away.

:lol::up:

UAIOE 12-08-09 01:54 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Drop (Post 9876427)
Could you be more specific about your criticisms, maybe we can have a good discussion about it's merits or lack of.

I guess I don't like the visual style, but it's been so long that I can't really remember a specific reason for being underwhelmed with the movie.

The visual style, the plot, the songs, none of it appealed to me.

Drop 12-08-09 09:52 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by caligulathegod (Post 9876781)
While Henry Selick was the animation talent behind the film, he's never been able to replicate the entertainment value of TBTNBC. Tim Burton provided the soul that has been severely lacking in Selick's subsequent films.

Coraline was just as good as Nightmare. And I also thought Corpse Bride was just as good as both of them. So to me it seemed like Burton and Selick still had the soul. But I still feel Nightmare is fairly clear collaboration and reflection of both of them.

UAIOE maybe you should see it again, you might like it atleast like it a little more. Or not, but that's fine. I think the film appeals to specific tastes and yours may not be one of them.

islandclaws 12-08-09 10:35 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I gotta agree. Goth kids took this and made it their own thing, which ruined its original appeal, IMO. I'm a huge Disney buff, and it bothers me to no end that they re-do the Haunted Mansion every year to be Nightmare-themed. The endless merchandise doesn't help either. Honestly, the film seems to annoy me more than anything. When a film or TV show gets too saturated, I step back for a while, wait for it to dissipate and then I can enjoy it again. But this thing never goes away, so I still can't bring myself to watch it again.

Drop 12-08-09 12:06 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
Why is it so hard for some of you to separate the film from it's fans or the culture around it? It seems in every case really easy to avoid. At most in the real world, you'll see people wearing a hoodie or shirt, but that's it. People aren't going out of their way to sing the songs anywhere in public and get in other's people way. And internet sites are even easier to ignore. And still none of this stuff is in the actual film, or has any bearing on what Selick or Burton made.

I just never got this idea that fandom or awful sequels effect how one views a film. The brilliance is still there and nothing should change that. When I watch I a great film I forget all about anything that it's spawned and just enjoy what I'm watching. If it's that good of film that is what it should do.

UAIOE 12-08-09 01:24 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Drop (Post 9877829)
UAIOE maybe you should see it again, you might like it atleast like it a little more. Or not, but that's fine. I think the film appeals to specific tastes and yours may not be one of them.

I think this will be impossible with my dislike for Tim Burton's art style, which I tend to believe this movie has a lot of.

But I'll also agree that it probably doesn't appeal to my tastes. That is probably the only reason I can think of why I was totally underwhelmed with the movie.

islandclaws 12-08-09 01:34 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Drop (Post 9878147)
Why is it so hard for some of you to separate the film from it's fans or the culture around it?

Because it's everywhere, and it annoys me. Maybe if I didn't go to Disneyland all the time I wouldn't see it so much, but I do and it's so commercialized and merchandized and cutesy that I just get irritated. I know that I probably love a thousand other things that could fit into that category, but for some reason this irks me more than anything else.

yoshimi 12-08-09 02:00 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
Still one of my favorite films. I even have some of the merchandise and I have never smeared white paint on my face and drawn on a frown with black lipstick. I also like Scarface and don't let the fact that a bunch of wanna be gangsta rappers love it ruin it for me.

toddly6666 10-22-10 10:23 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".

So I just blind-bought the blu-ray of Nightmare Before Christmas the other day for 12 bucks, and this is one of the best blind buys I have ever done. I had never seen the film in 1993 nor did I ever want to rent it for the above reasons, but this movie is phenomenal! A totally excellent film with great character, story, animation, and especially the music!

I probably liked it too because it didn't have Johnny Depp or Helen Bonham Carter doing the voices. I totally forgot about how in the old days (pre-1995) that animated films actually used real voice actors and not movie actors as they do now.

Groucho 10-22-10 10:36 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by toddly6666 (Post 10445649)
I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".

Sounds like you have a closed mind, so I stopped reading there and added you to my ignore list.

If you ever grow up a bit I suggest you at least give the movie a try, perhaps it won't be to your tastes -- but at least you'll have an informed option.

:mad:

Dash 10-22-10 10:49 AM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by toddly6666 (Post 10445649)
I can't stand Tim Burton, I can't stand goth/emo/death-related stuff, and I can't stand themes in which something is labeled as "dark for the sake of being dark".

So I just blind-bought the blu-ray of Nightmare Before Christmas the other day for 12 bucks, and this is one of the best blind buys I have ever done. I had never seen the film in 1993 nor did I ever want to rent it for the above reasons, but this movie is phenomenal! A totally excellent film with great character, story, animation, and especially the music!

I probably liked it too because it didn't have Johnny Depp or Helen Bonham Carter doing the voices. I totally forgot about how in the old days (pre-1995) that animated films actually used real voice actors and not movie actors as they do now.


Iím glad you enjoyed it. I still think itís a phenomenal movie even though with merchandising itís been a little over saturated. As far as voice acting goes, Danny Elfman was the singing voice of Jack Skelington.

majorjoe23 10-22-10 01:44 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by toddly6666 (Post 10445649)
I probably liked it too because it didn't have Johnny Depp or Helen Bonham Carter doing the voices. I totally forgot about how in the old days (pre-1995) that animated films actually used real voice actors and not movie actors as they do now.

I don't know about that. Chris Sarandon, Catherine O'Hara, William Hickey, Paul Reubens, Glen Shadix (though he later transitioned to voice work) were all definite movie actors. It didn't have the star power of modern animated films, but I wouldn't call them voice actors.

mmconhea 10-22-10 02:23 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
It's one of my favorite movies... maybe because it's original. Traditionally I watch it twice a year. Halloween and then around Christmas.

Mabuse 10-22-10 02:38 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
It's a great film, but I too am bugged how Henry Sellick gets the shaft. His genius is only further proven when you see the stop motion film that Burton did direct (Corpse Bride) and it's a pale shaddow of Nightmare.

It has also always anoyed me how Disney clearly didn't like the film upon initial release, tagging it with "Touchstone Pictures" and giving it comparitively little publicity. 8 to 10 years latter when it snowballed into a huge hit suddenly they love it, with annual revivals and re-releases, tons of merchendising, rides at the theme parks, etc. If they'd lavished that attention on the film when it was new it would have been a much bigger hit. Their reversal just shows such hypocrisy. They don't really want to foster anything new.

toddly6666 10-22-10 03:17 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 

Originally Posted by Groucho (Post 10445679)
Sounds like you have a closed mind, so I stopped reading there and added you to my ignore list.

If you ever grow up a bit I suggest you at least give the movie a try, perhaps it won't be to your tastes -- but at least you'll have an informed option.

:mad:

Read on because your post makes no sense if you continued reading my post!



Originally Posted by majorjoe23 (Post 10446075)
I don't know about that. Chris Sarandon, Catherine O'Hara, William Hickey, Paul Reubens, Glen Shadix (though he later transitioned to voice work) were all definite movie actors. It didn't have the star power of modern animated films, but I wouldn't call them voice actors.

I'm talking more on the lines of actually telling the audience who is voicing the characters in the trailers such as "starring the voices of.... Eddie Murphy, Johnny Depp, Cameron Diaz, Bruce Willis, Meryl Streep!"



Originally Posted by Lemmy (Post 9876869)
and, honestly, I can't wrap my head around the popularity. There's really very little (read: nothing) in this film that I enjoy. But I just don't get it.

It's because you can't relate to the anorexic protagonist? ;)
Spoiler:
continuing our ongoing inside joke :)

Guru Askew 10-22-10 03:28 PM

Re: What's the deal with 'The Nightmare Before Christmas?'
 
"Coraline" is as good as it is because of the source material. Henry Selick is skilled at animation but he needs someone creative guiding him and that's what Burton did on "TNBC". Burton was essentially the creative director and Selick was the technical director and if anything Burton is the one who has suffered by constantly having "TNBC" excluded by obsessive nerds who give too much weight to an official credit. I'm sure this is why he actually took the co-director credit on "The Corpse Bride" when there was a very similar arrangement with the animation director.

Take Neil Gaiman, Tim Burton or Wes Anderson out of the equation and Selick gives you "Monkeybone". I mean, the guy is good at what he does but what he does is bring the vision of others to life.


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