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Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman

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Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman

Old 01-09-11, 12:12 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

alright...new mission for you guys. Who's right? 12th Monkey or Me? Cuz I'd swear that I saw blood during all that stuff.
Old 01-09-11, 12:30 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC View Post
alright...new mission for you guys. Who's right? 12th Monkey or Me? Cuz I'd swear that I saw blood during all that stuff.
Spoiler:
After wounding herself in the dressing room, Nina appears onstage as the black swan, and no blood is visible on her black costume. Nina returns to the dressing room to change into her white swan costume. It is then revealed that she has the shard of glass in her body. When she takes the stage as the white swan, Portman is mostly shot from the chest up, so no blood is visible. In a few fleeting shots when her whole body is shot in motion, there is a very clear small red spot on her white costume. It isn't until the final moments of her dance that the blood stain increases in area very quickly, and the camera lingers on her body longer, so that the blood is very obvious.
Old 01-09-11, 12:50 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Spoiler:
After wounding herself in the dressing room, Nina appears onstage as the black swan, and no blood is visible on her black costume. Nina returns to the dressing room to change into her white swan costume. It is then revealed that she has the shard of glass in her body. When she takes the stage as the white swan, Portman is mostly shot from the chest up, so no blood is visible. In a few fleeting shots when her whole body is shot in motion, there is a very clear small red spot on her white costume. It isn't until the final moments of her dance that the blood stain increases in area very quickly, and the camera lingers on her body longer, so that the blood is very obvious.

That reinforces what I originally expected - yet didn't notice - from Aronofsky.
Old 01-09-11, 01:55 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Saw it tonight it was cool
Old 01-10-11, 12:54 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by Tarantino View Post
Doesn't seem like something I would want to see, but I'll keep my ear to it because of the director.

We'll see.

= J
I'm glad I ended up checking this out in the theater. The last hour was freaking intense. I'm still thinking about it, so I haven't formed a complete opinion yet, but the direction was awesome.
Old 01-10-11, 12:44 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Spoiler:
She also doesn't pull the glass out until she's about to go on for the last scene (if I remember correctly). One could argue the glass is stopping the flow of blood during the earlier scenes.
Old 01-10-11, 02:31 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

This one is my favorite of 2010. There were so many things I enjoyed (besides hot lesbian sex) about this film. Aronofsky (like Fincher) is just an amazing talent. And Mila Kunis can do dramatic stuff pretty well, when give a decent script to work with.

I also want to give huge props to Clint Mansell for the amazing score in this one. He took a classic piece and made it into something totally different.
Old 01-10-11, 07:14 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

"Black Swan = intense"
Those were the words used by my cousin on her fb status to describe the movie right after watching it on the theater and I think is the best description anyone can give it.

Stripped down "Black Swan" is pretty simple, a ballerina trying perfect her art. Most of the film is exclusively Portman's viewpoint. We get to see how unstable she is but I rarely got to understand what she was actually feeling. For the love of me I have no idea if she loved the mom or hated her same with the instructor or if she even considered Mila a friend. Maybe I'm not Avant-garde enough to get all the intricacies of the character or maybe there isn't much more to gather...

In any case where Black Swan triumphantly succeeds is in its execution. Aronofsky elegantly follows Portman's every step like a shadow of her darker self waiting for the right moment to come out. His camera movements are truly a stroke of genius. Even on the dancing numbers there is so much fluidity and its just such a treat to see not only the characters waltz through with the music but the cameras too.

As the movie progresses the tension increases too until it reaches boiling points. As the events continued I kept going omg omg something big is going to happen
Spoiler:
the mom is going to end up killing her, she is going to end up being Beth's alter ego, I think I saw a monster on the trailer oh man when is it going to appear but like that Family Guy spoof section of Jedi where everyone signals each other for 5 minutes before executing the plan to rescue Luke. The build up was bigger than the execution. Not that the final act wasn't cool because I did like it but the build up was unnecessarily inflated.


All in all a well done film. Kinda like Kill Bill where you take a simple story but elevate it to awesomeness by making it artistically beautiful and engaging. But Kill Bill was better
Old 01-10-11, 08:14 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

YOUR MOM WAS UNNECESSARILY INFLATED!!!

jk...
Old 01-10-11, 11:36 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

haha I'm still right
Old 01-11-11, 09:50 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Saw it, thought it was great - but again (like most of you) I have interpretive questions.

Spoiler:
There's a scene in the film where Natalie walks to the dressing room to confront Kunis' character about telling the director to take it easy on her. Natalie is standing in the doorway and we can see her reflection in a mirror in the room. But the reflection is not Natalie, it's of some girl we've never seen (but it's Natalie's voice talking). Then the camera follows her walking around the corner and it's Natalie again. Was wondering what the significance of that scene may be. Maybe Natalie is schizo and her "real" self was the girl we saw in the mirror?
Old 01-11-11, 01:10 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Shilex-- You are mistaken. The reflection is Natalie. Perhaps the angle of the reflection confused you.
Old 01-11-11, 10:54 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

I finally got to see this great film. I liked it much better than I thought I would. It's definitely in my top 10 of 2010.
Old 01-14-11, 05:17 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

interesting theory i read on slashfilm:

Spoiler:
You guys never really touched on this, but I think Nina’s mom was molesting her.

Reason 1:
Before Nina starts masturbating, she takes out the trash in that one scene. After she takes the trash out, she grabs the stick used to prop her door closed. As she walks back in the house though, the mom is standing there in what looks like a black lace dress (something more sexual than her usual wear) and ask Nina if she is ready for her yet. As Nina goes to her room, she tries to prop the door closed (which would make the mom not be able to get in), but her mom hears her and asks what the noise is. Nina, now scared, hides the stick, and the scene closes.

-I think this is the first time I actually picked up on it. After this point, I thought the point was completely obvious, and almost redundant. Talking with my friends after the movie, they didn’t seem to catch any of this and thought I was crazy. Anyways, the way her mom appeared in the dress in that scene, and saying “Are you ready for me Nina” should be proof enough that she is molesting Nina. What other motivation would Nina have to close her door with something that would prevent her mom from entering? This was all before she started masturbating, so I don’t think that that is a valid reason.

Reason 2:
I’m not sure when it happens or what exactly was before, but there is a scene when Nina and her mom are fixing her shoes, and Nina begins to get defensive about something and her mom tells her to take off her shirt as she is approaching her. This is one of the weaker points in this argument, but just the way the mom yells at her too isn’t in a “let me see whats on your back kind of way”. Right after this happens, the doorbell rings and Lily is at the door. At first, Nina’s mom answers the door, not allowing Nina to even see who is at the door (why would she do this if she wasn’t planning on doing something to Nina?) but then Nina runs towards the door and finds out it was Lily. She steps out into the hall with Lily to talk, but while they do, her mom persists that she come back inside for dinner. Dinner was not being served when Nina left to go see who was at the door, so her mom was obviously trying to drag her back in to do something to her.

Reason 3:
There is a scene with Nina in the tub and she is started when she goes under water and sees blood, and then opens her eyes to see her mom on top of her. but then gets out of the water and nobody is there. While all this was hallucination, I think it’s very symbolic in the fact that Nina never feels fully closed away from her mom. I also think it is important that her mom would be the person to show up when she starts masturbating in the tub. (I do realize, from my memory, that there were other faces that were looking at her in the water, but her mom’s was definitely the one she got out of the tub to.

Reason 4:
Before I say the most defining evidence behind her mom’s molestation, there is a scene in which tomas is talking to Nina about sex inside his apartment. he asks her if she enjoys sex, and she seems extremely timid about answering the question. I know it can be taken lots of different ways, but I think it’s important to note here that Nina isn’t having sex with any men at the time, and that if her mom was molesting her, that was the only action she was getting, meaning that she probably didn’t necessarily enjoy it.

[Editor's note: I think Reasons 3 and 4, and parts of Reason 2 are pretty thin]

Reason 5:
So this is where I was absolutely sure that her mom was molesting her. After the late night outing with lilly, Nina and her come back to the apartment. When Nina’s mom starts to get mad at Nina for being out, she slaps her, an act that someone like lily would have taken offense to and probably helped Nina out of the house. instead, Lily lets Nina drag her to her room, where the sex scene commences behind a (supposedly) locked door in Nina’s room. Throughout this scene, we see the girl performing oral sex on Nina change from Lily to a darker version of Nina, and back to Lily. However, once lily sits up she says something along the lines of “my sweet girl”. Given how the movie very much made the user tie that phrase to Nina’s mom, and the fact that there is no way Lily would know that phrase (unless by utter chance, which is unlikely, given as how its used throughout the film), I immediately thought of the possibility of this person being her mom. And my thoughts were confirmed a second later. Once Lily says “sweet girl”, the camera cuts to Nina’s face, full of suprise, and then back to the woman on top of Nina, who, right before the camera cuts away, is her mom.

Now my friends swear up and down that they never saw the mom in the sex scene, but I swear up and down that she was indeed the last version of the person on top Nina and the one the camera spends the least time on. My theory then is that, coming home, still high from rolling, Nina’s mom accosts her in her state and has sex with her. However because of her state, Nina is more responsive than usual because she is imagining that she is with Lily (it is later revealed that Lily never came home with Nina). That’s why the shot of the mom on top of Nina is one of the mom smiling before she continues oral sex with Nina.

It should also be noted here that when Nina wakes up in the morning, the sheets are disheveled and on the floor, and the door is not barred by the stick, suggesting that a sex act did occur, and someone could get in the room (the door was open). Also, when leaving the house in a hurry after she wakes up, the mom is seen sitting on a bench in their living room looking very grave and solemn. There is never another situation like this, and I think it’s because the mom realized the state Nina was in and took advantage of her anyways and felt bad about doing so.

Reason 6:
Just the other general weirdness with the mom. Licking the cake off her finger, how her mom never seemed satisfied with herself (so maybe wanted to be with someone who strove for something perfect, so that she could have something perfect). The time when Nina said that she could undress herself, but her mom did it anyways. Basically, Nina’s mom cared about making Nina as perfect as possible for herself as Nina cared about making herself perfect.

I was honestly surprised when none of my friends held the same view in something I thought was totally obvious, but I do hope someone can back me up here.

not sure if i agree with it 100% - need to see it again to so i can watch some scenes frame by frame. interesting none the less.
Old 01-14-11, 07:49 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

I don't think anything I am writing is an obvious spoiler for anything, so no spoiler tags, but if anyone feels I need to add them I certainly will.

There was definitely some odd vibes coming off of them in their scenes together. I did pick up on a clearly dysfunctional codependent relationship obviously, and the molestation thing did run through my mind at various parts during the movie.

If you wanted to explain away another point that maybe doesn't point towards the molestation angle, is Reason 1 when it says her mom says "are you ready for me" it could be for her mom to come in and tuck her in to bed, turn on her ballerina music box, etc. I picked up on that as babying Nina (which she did constantly). So it can be read either way.

But I did pick up on the vibe and this article articulated it well, needs an additional viewing perhaps. I love the obvious ambiguity of it. This movie is brilliant.
Old 01-14-11, 01:39 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by Davie50 View Post
I don't think anything I am writing is an obvious spoiler for anything, so no spoiler tags, but if anyone feels I need to add them I certainly will.

There was definitely some odd vibes coming off of them in their scenes together. I did pick up on a clearly dysfunctional codependent relationship obviously, and the molestation thing did run through my mind at various parts during the movie.

If you wanted to explain away another point that maybe doesn't point towards the molestation angle, is Reason 1 when it says her mom says "are you ready for me" it could be for her mom to come in and tuck her in to bed, turn on her ballerina music box, etc. I picked up on that as babying Nina (which she did constantly). So it can be read either way.

But I did pick up on the vibe and this article articulated it well, needs an additional viewing perhaps. I love the obvious ambiguity of it. This movie is brilliant.
yeah to me that was obvious. Nina was babied by her mum all the time.

If the writer of that article swears up and down that it was her mom in those...why don't they actually watch it again to get a personal confirmation?
Old 01-14-11, 05:44 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Like most people, I just viewed their relationship as very co-dependent and unhealthy - with Nina being kept in an almost prepubescent emotional state by her mother's controlling nature. However, those are some interesting observations to consider.

I'm almost positive that Nina
Spoiler:
only saw the dark version of herself looking down when the blood dripped on her in the bathtub.
I never spotted her mother or any other face in that scene - let alone during in "the scene" with Lily.
Old 01-14-11, 11:27 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Saw it tonight. Portman's performance will be remembered for years to come. Wasn't a huge fan of the movie itself, but Portman was phenomenal.
Old 01-15-11, 06:38 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Just saw it. Wow, it's great that the copy protection is now consists of patterns of small black dots in the middle of the frame, rather than huge brown dots in the middle of the frame. They were noticeable enough in this movie that I can draw them from memory.

First, right in the middle of the frame, there were four black dots.
Code:
**
**
And then there was this pattern, a little to the right:

Code:
***
****
And then there was another dot pattern to the left, that I cannot recall.

And then it cycled back to the four brown dots in the middle of the frame. Repeat every 5 minutes.

Last edited by dugan; 01-16-11 at 01:19 AM. Reason: emoticon added
Old 01-15-11, 07:35 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

I'm going to see this tomorrow. So far everyone I know who has seen it and has liked it.
Old 01-16-11, 01:07 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Just saw it. Wow, it's great that the copy protection is now consists of patterns of small black dots in the middle of the frame, rather than huge brown dots in the middle of the frame. They were noticeable enough in this movie that I can draw them from memory.

First, right in the middle of the frame, there were four black dots.
Code:
**
**
And then there was this pattern, a little to the right:

Code:
***
****
And then there was another dot pattern to the left, that I cannot recall.

And then it cycled back to the four brown dots in the middle of the frame. Repeat every 5 minutes.
Wha?
Old 01-16-11, 01:18 AM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by Tarantino View Post
Wha?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cap_code

As you can see, it was completely invisible and did not affect my enjoyment of this movie at all.

If you're one of those fortunate people who never notice them, there's a picture here:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread207797/pg

(Yes, I saw this movie and then came here to complain about the copy protection That's how annoying I found it).

Last edited by dugan; 01-16-11 at 01:55 AM.
Old 01-16-11, 05:43 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

I saw it in DLP, so no crap code dots or changeover cues. Those crap code dots really turned me off from film the past few years- hardly any theater in the area knows how to project film right anyway, so I guess digital is an improvement at this point.
Old 01-16-11, 08:29 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Saw it again last night. Even better than the 1st time.
Old 01-17-11, 04:18 PM
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Re: Black Swan (Aronofsky, 2010): Natalie Portman in supernatural thriller

Originally Posted by joe_b View Post
Like most people, I just viewed their relationship as very co-dependent and unhealthy - with Nina being kept in an almost prepubescent emotional state by her mother's controlling nature. However, those are some interesting observations to consider.

I'm almost positive that Nina
Spoiler:
only saw the dark version of herself looking down when the blood dripped on her in the bathtub.
I never spotted her mother or any other face in that scene - let alone during in "the scene" with Lily.
I just finished watching this movie a few minutes ago and I thought it was her mother in both scenes.

Just watched it again and no mother this time. I better watch those scenes a few more times just to be really really sure.

Last edited by Baron Of Hell; 01-17-11 at 04:44 PM.

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