mattressman

I don't really understand all of the hate on this movie. I actually prefer it to the remake. I think Scout is much more tolerable in this, the deaths are more memorable and overall it's just a refreshingly unique take on the Halloween franchise. I don't think it's better than the classic, the sequel, part 3, 4 or maybe H20 but it was nice to see it strive to make something different (which is more than I can say for H20). It was visually interesting and I like the turn the characters take, with Laurie in post-traumatic stress and Loomis becoming a publicity hound. I'm not particularly huge on either endings but overall I enjoyed the film as a whole. And this is coming from a big fan of the franchise.
For folks to say this is "the worst movie ever" or a bastardization just seems a bit extreme. I can see how it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but c'mon. But that's just my opinion.

islandclaws

From what I've heard from some horror industry friends, Zombie had planned on having Michael be a figment of Laurie's damaged psyche for the sequel - he was killed at the end of the first film. But he was forced to change that since the studio wasn't going for it, so he did a hack rewrite of his script to keep Michael alive, but left many elements of the previous incarnation. Thus, why it makes no sense.

Trevor

I have to admit that I'm actually anxious to watch this now, despite the fact that I found Zombie's first Halloween to be one of the worst films of all-time.

I'll watch them back-to-back, perhaps this coming October, then come back here and ask some of you to explain yourselves.

wlj

i watched this film recently and it is pretty freaking brutal. I was very entertained by all of the violence.

mattressman

Just to put this in perspective, I would rank the Halloween flicks as follows:

1. Halloween (1978)
The obvious choice, for good reason. Probably the most even, atmospheric slasher ever made.

2. Halloween II (1981)
Great pacing, very tense and it's got memorable deaths. I also love the whole idea of it picking up right after the first film. Plus it's got Jamie Lee.

3. Halloween III
Probably the most entertaining of all the Halloween films. It's pretty hilarious but doesn't sacrifice tension. And of course, awesome deaths. Plus... TOM ATKINS.

4. Halloween 4
I love Jamie and Rachel, some of the best characters in any of the Halloween movies besides the obvious. I also am really fond of the ending.

5. Halloween: Water
Forced to sort of reboot the franchise (ignoring parts 4-6) after the Halloween franchise became so convoluted, they somehow pulled it off. The overall production of the film looks great and the performances are above average which is completely refreshing. Jamie Lee is great but of course Michael looks ridiculous. The movie plays out as a straight forward modern slasher with one of the best endings of the series (which is completely destroyed by Resurrection). Michael is also seen killing with purpose in this and not randomly popping up nonsensically all over Haddonfield just to kill randoms for shock value. He manages to walk by folks without killing them just so he can more efficiently reach his target. The only real problem with this one is it's just not terribly memorable (and that goddamn mask).

6. Halloween II (2009)
See above.

7. Halloween (2007)
The part I enjoyed most about this movie was actually the part I figured I'd hate. That is all the build up with young Michael. If you just set this apart from the original and let it stand on its own, I think it ain't too bad. The real shame is that once Michael finally shows up it just gets terribly tedious and blah.

8. Halloween 6
This one is a mess and we all know how it got there. I place this above 5 and Resurrection because it's a little more enjoyable even though it's so all over the place (maybe that's why it's so entertaining). Also, I really like Rudd's character.

9. Halloween 5
5 is pretty painful with plenty of annoying characters and some moments that are terribly out of place. Plus, this is really where the movies start to go off the deep end with all the weird mythology and unanswered questions. And what the hell is with the beginning of this movie? At least it's a bit entertaining, especially with how damn batty Loomis is getting.

10. Halloween: Resurrection
More insulting than any of the other entries is Resurrection. Rhymes does a lot of damage, but most of all it's just plain boring. And the explanation for Michael's survival in the beginning is probably the most contrived of the series. The only enjoyment I got out of this is that there are a few parts that make me laugh out loud (and they're not intentionally funny).

EdTheRipper

That explanation does make some sense. A friend of mine linked me to a blog where the blogger went into great detail with his theory based on that.

http://www.lytrules.com/blog/2009/08...heavy-defense/

Dr. DVD

Still doesn't make much sense to me, but to each their own.

Apparently the next major role for Scout-Taylor whomever (Laurie) is playing Lita Ford in the Joan Jett movie with the girl from Twilight. Guess once again she'll do a lot of screaming.

riley_dude

Horrible movie. Even the deaths were just kinda punch punch, stab stab. Nothing new.
There wasn't a character I liked in the movie. Lorie was annoying, Lomis was annoying. Everyone!
And the white horse angle was really bad.

SlinKer

I completely agree, whilst some aspects of it were pretty naff there was some scenes in it that i liked and were quite memorable.

To call it the "worst film ever" etc is totally unwarranted.

islandclaws

I have seen a countless number of horror and non-horror films, I'm a total horror junkie. I've been with the Halloween franchise since I was a kid.

I can easily say that Halloween 2 is one of the worst films I have ever seen in my life. It's poorly written, terribly acted, uneven and, worst of all, it shits directly in the face of anyone who has been a fan of the franchise. People want to say "Oh, well at least Michael isn't sparring with a kung-fu Busta Rhymes". Fuck you. I'll take a Halloween movie that features Tyra "The Most Annoying Bitch on the Planet" Banks over a version from Zombie anyday. He ruined the mythos of the series because, even though we still have the original canon, anything made from here on out is already tainted by Zombie's reverse Midas touch. He touched the franchise and it turned to shit.

Dr. DVD

Okay, while this movie might be one of the worst released last year, at least it wasn't Couples Retreat. I am watching that right now and it's about as tortuous.

riley_dude

Refreshingly unique?
It was horribly written and there wasn't one clever kill in the whole movie.
Each character was so hateful and moronic that you didn't care what happened to them.

Cocacoladude78

And you thought Myers stopped being scary 21 years ago with tears and a cult...

This is absolutely horrendous! This is probably the biggest downgrade a movie villain has ever seen!

Move over Abbot and Costello meet the Universal monsters (though Meet Frankenstein was a good film; a lot of fans were rightfully pissed though in 1948)... Move over family friendly '99 Darth Vader... Move over Uber Jason... Homeless Myers is in town! When a Power Rangers/TMNT ripoff comic book Jason provides more creativity, we're in deep shit!

I can guarantee no one actually scared in 1978 by Myers would have seen where this supernatural bogeyman was going. Yes, at one time Myers was actually scary! Kids were scared by Halloween 2's Myers as well... Hell, he was even scarier in Halloween 4 than he ever was afterward (the pathetic scary mime mask included).

At least in Halloween 4, his new mime mask makes sense; he is mask less for 10 years and steals it from the store. At least it makes sense in the plot. Halloween 4 is the last film to actually have a logical plot.

None of the masks after make sense; Shouldn't he have the same Halloween 4 mask in Halloween 5? He doesn't buy or steal a new one...

I liked the very bare elements of Halloween 4's plot, but this is the movie that turned Haddonfield into a redneck town. Terrible! Goodbye suburbs -- which was the entire point of Haddonfield in the plot line to being with!

To be fair, Halloween 4 was really the last film that resembled anything worth noting, even at its bare core. It's not really an all around good film, but at least it makes sense. It had a scary opening and a fairly good ending! The rednecks on the hunt bring the film down though...

Maybe this is where Rob Zombie got the idea from? He just expanded it and turned everyone into one for H2? Plenty of rednecks in his H1 too!

Fans say that Rob Zombie wanted to make psychological films based on a real flesh and blood serial killer? A character study? Good idea, but he falls flat here too...

His "human Myers" takes the same exact damage that the supernatural bogeyman took! Getting shot multiple times, getting shot in the head and vanishing, lifting a car... Myers here is anything but a real life serial killer. But, he's not a supernatural bogeyman either. So, where does that leave him exactly?

He's a scare-less hobo who is nowhere near as frightening as actual world living serial killers. The long hair bum look just does absolutely nothing to cause even the barest tingle!

Rob Zombie scripts are absolutely atrocious and make absolutely no sense? Terrible writing all around...

Even the plain Jane scripts of Halloween 4 and Halloween H20 (a movie I don't like either) were written better than this dreck!

Rob Zombie's scripts are on the same level as the worst sequels. The man just can't write worth a damn, and he pays absolutely no attention to plot points or continuity whatsoever.

Rob Zombie hates Friday the 13th: Well, he basically too the bare essentials (tits and blood) for both his Halloween films and filled both with them. Plus he directly ripped of Friday the 13th's storyline in his second film. You can't fool me Mr. Zombie... For being such a detractor of that series, you sure borrowed heavily from the entire series.

The theatrical version also ripped off Halloween 4's ending. This movie also rips of Halloween 5's psychic plot line. At least in Halloween 4, the ending was done well. The DVD ending "die" is even worse and is truly the final nail in the Myers coffin!

My guess is they'll wait another 5 years and reboot this series all over again (like TCM 2011). I doubt Zombie's films (like Halloween 6 and Halloween 8) will ever be mentioned again. Especially after the lackluster box office and vehement word of mouth from both fans and the mainstream.

Goodbye Rob Zombie! I really don't think you'll be missed. Now join Joe Chappelle is his little corner of obscurity as a filmmaker!

d2cheer

The gal that played Laurie (Scout someone) is probably one of the worst actress I have ever seen. I was seriously hoping she die a horrible death onscreen.

Zombie must tell his actors to act like they can't act...

Not very good but then I didn't expect it to be. Only reason I have seen this one is because I have seen all the other ones in the series/reboot etc...

Sonny Corinthos

I just saw this for the the first time on demand. Holy cow, what a piece of shit! Who in their right mind green lit this crap? It made no sense at all. Hot damn!, I heard it was bad but this was beyond awful. I hope somebody lost their ass on this pile of turds.

Solid Snake

well there's a whole thread about how the film ended up being the way it is. It's this thread. look back a couple of pages or more and it'll be there.

Zbu

I'd switch these around because Halloween 6 is basically the Zombie Halloween 2 of the original run: a very good idea ruined by a very bad script. The end of Halloween 5 was pretty original in itself by having Myers in captivity (and in chains, no less!) and being broken out. By whom? And what happens to Jamie? It's a pretty stunning cliffhanger because of the air of mystery behind everything. We are presented with people moving on from Halloween 4 and twenty minutes into the movie we're given a pretty startling death that puts everything up in the air. Loomis is insane, the new heroine is far, far too girly to do anything, and we have some mysterious man in black walking around like Michael. If the Halloween series ended here, it would be fitting because it puts the mystery back into the Shape that is desperately needed. I guess my point is that Halloween 5 gets a lot of shit, but mostly because they're breaking a paradigm from the previous film and in most films in the series at this point. I will agree to the strangeness of the beginning, which isn't really needed: Myers could have just become comatose at the bottom of a well because being cared for by a helpful hobo (in the middle of Illnois? COME ON) is patently absurd.

On the other hand, Halloween 6 is deeply flawed. I can back the boy from the first one having an obsession. But this movie is placed too far from the events of Halloween 5 and the character of Jamie deserved a better fate than she got. I'm not sure writing her out was a good idea as the replacement for her and that whole stupid 'family is in the Myers house again, hur dur' subplot was so incredibly stupid and undramatic that it comes as a relief when they're finally dispatched. Halloween 6 has severe editing problems, but it doesn't cover the script issues that are long on exposition but short on anything really horrifying. When we finally get to the Man in Black's reveal, it's more of a relief because the movie is actually doing something besides running around Haddonfield and doing absolutely nothing. Halloween 6 might have had good intentions, but in hindsight it was a horrible misfire that has none of the benefits of 5 but several stupid mistakes that could and should have been fixed years previous. It doesn't move as much as plod around.

KrazyJason

Hey guys, I know I'm getting in late on this discussion, but I'm still fairly new here. Anyway, I hope to spark more talk about it with a video review I did that's up on youtube (Link Below). We took a look at the Bluray and talk about the controversy surrounding the film, and throw in some unique insights. So check it out, and maybe we can continue the debate/discussion here. And, please leave a comment on the video on youtube as i'm trying to spark more conversation about it there too. I love talking all things Halloween (the movies of course(well, the holiday too)).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En2uwPuto04

modfather

Finally saw this yesterday. I'm actually a fan of bot of RZ's first two movies, and H1 was fine, but not great. This film was pretty poor, IMHO.

1. I found Laurie to be annoying. I HOPED she was going to get killed throughout.
2. WTF is up with her bedroom and bathroom? If I'd suffered the way she had, I'd have Hello Kitty and PowerPuff Girl decorations all over the place, not a huge poster of Charles Manson staring down at me every night, letalone the "666" and white trash spray paint all over the place.
3. It's amazing to me that Laurie was the most progressive/grunge chick in the whole of a tiny town of Haddonfield.
4. It's also amazing to me that this tiny town can also put on a Halloween party with makeup on people that you wouldn't see at the hottest clubs in New York or L.A.
5. Brad Dourif was great. I really liked his character and thought he was the highlight of an otherwise REALLY bad film.
6. This sounds odd about a horror film, and maybe I'm just getting old, but I found this film to be BRUTAL. It just seems to go too far, even for Zombie. I don't mind the gore, but to me, Michael should be about killing when someone gets in his way, not repeatedly stabbing an already dead victim.
7. No suspense. Most horror films make you think that victims have at least some SMALL shred of a chance against a psycho killer (even though we, the watchers, know they don't). Not only did you know every victim as soon as they were shown on the screen, but I predicted just about every death, how they would die, etc.
8. Unlikeable Loomis. I won't compare him to the original character, but if you're going to make him a greedy, disenfranchised asshole, who's going to be a martyr at the end, at least have him deal with the dual sides of his personality - the side that wants to move on and the side that's grieving over his "responsibility".
9. Michael without his mask? Humanizes an inhuman. Didn't like it.
10. I like Sheri Moon Zombie, but there was absolutely no point to her being in a single scene of this movie. And for God's sake, if you're going to put her in it, show her boobies or hoo-ha!

Grade: D

needamazing

I really don't understand why so many people hate Zombie's Halloween 2. I like that he tried something different. What's wrong with visualizing something in Michael's mind via his mother and the horse? I admit that maybe there was a little too much of it but a little of it would have helped to explain Michael's motivation.

I also think having Lori as the killier in the second movie would have been a great way to go. I see how that may have been the original intent from watching the movie.

Anyway, I enjoyed both the movies. My only beef is I wish more of the Halloween theme would have been used in the sequel.

DthRdrX

Let me say this, White Zombie was my favorite band. Loved Zombie's music until he started going more on his own. Really enjoyed, and defended on this forum, his first movie as just a fun campy movie. Enjoyed the first remake for what it was. This movie, H2, is the worst thing I have ever witnessed. Yea, my comments are late, but I just saw it last night.

Script = garbage, might have actually been written by a 13-14 year old. Use of bad language throughout the movie was too juvenile.

Characters = unlikable, uninteresting, most of which got on my nerves, save for maybe Danielle Harris and Brad Dourif. McDowell was utterly wasted and his character was shit on. Zombie's love of white trash went WAY too far.

Death Scenes = terrible, over use of gore. How many times do I have to watch Michael stab someone? 100? Zombie doesn't seem to understand that if the audience doesn;t know or care about a character then they are not going to have any emotional interest in watching them, or seeing their brutal death. That describes the first 90 minutes of this movie. When we finally get a death scene with an established character, Annie, he F'N cuts it down and shows next to nothing! WTF! The Annie/Michael scene could have, and should have, been the best scene in the movie but it sucked.

Plot = Makes the first movie look like a masterpiece. Holes big enough to drive that meat wagon through! (Lorrie telling the shrink Annie's face is her fault, despite not even knowing who she really is yet. How Michael survived the first one, where he went, how they just happened to lose his body, how he got that far away from the town. Why Loomis decided to just be a nice guy at the end, how he got their within three seconds ... and on and on) Yea, F'N ghosts and horses! This is the kind of shit that happens when a director goes out of his way to keep giving his wife work. 30 years ago George Lucas would have shit himself with the creative freedom Zombie must have been given to make this! No way did anyone at the studio actually watch this shit before it was too late.

We all know it's inevitable that they will make another Halloween. IMO, and I know this will not go over well with most on here, Halloween 3D should be a new story similiar to the original H3. Break with Michael for one movie to give people a break and then reboot it again. Maybe they'll even get a fresh idea or two along the way.

Troy Stiffler

I really liked this movie. The narrative was very thin and off-kilter - like a lot of it was rushed and/or improved. And the characters were all jerks. It was certainly a choice. And I like to see that in movies.

Rob Zombie is really trying for something nightmarish and unwinning. It makes the whole experience feel terrifying. The 'hallucination' and 'Nights in White Satin' stuff was delicately handled with a sludge hammer. It's like he tries to slow things down and be artistic with juxtapositions. But he kept it in-your-face and dumbed down for the MTV crowd.

The Devil's Rejects is still his high point so far. I really think that he has it in him to make a classic horror/crime film. I really want to see him given a chance to not rush things along, given the money, and see what happens.

Geofferson

I caught this last night. Wasn't as bad as I expected, but definitely had its problems. There are a lot of bad things to say about it, but the one positive take-away I had was the moody/atmospheric element Zombie achieved. For such a trashy horror exercise, there were several scenes effectively staged.

Maxflier

I finally got around to watching this the other night. I am a big fan of Rob's, have really liked all of his movies so far a lot (haven't seen the cartoon or the Salem one), and thought his first Halloween was a really good effort, so I thought for sure that all the hate toward this one HAD to be exaggerated. Unfortunately it wasn't. This movie was fucking horrible. He had to have done it on purpose, and that feeling was only reinforced when the credits hit and the classic Halloween theme kicks in, which was like one final fuck you since it was nowhere to be found in the movie proper. What a huge disappointment this was.

PatD

It's going on 6 years since they made a Halloween movie (almost as big a lull between Halloween 5 and Halloween 6). After seeing this movie, it's more than understandable.