A question about a Godfather Part II scene (Major Spoilers)
11-08-08, 08:40 AM
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A question about a Godfather Part II scene (Major Spoilers)
I just watched The Godfather Part II for the umpteeth time the other day. One of my favorite movies. And there is one scene that i always question but i tend to leave it up to interpretation. It's the mother's funeral scene leading up to Fredo's death. I pretty much felt that once Michael gave Fredo the kiss of death from learning of Fredo's betrayal earlier, that he was a pretty much a goner.
First after gathering all the info Michael could get from Fredo to help with his trial, he told him that he's no longer a brother and he doesn't want to see him. Also told his bodyguard that he doesn't want anything to happen to Fredo while mother was alive. (Basically that he's dead as a doorknob after) Then at the their mother's funeral, Fredo asked Tom where's Michael etc. Tom basically said he's waiting for Fredo to leave so he can visit mother.
Now here's where my mind whirls. Then comes in their sister Connie with that one scene convincing Michael to see him leading to that heartbreaking last reunion with the two brothers embracing. Which leads to three different scenerios i think of.
A. Connie convinced Michael to see him. And for one momentarily lapse of reason, he temporally decides to forgive Fredo since he does love his brother and perhaps not kill him.
B. It was all a stone cold front to pursuade Connie and others that all is forgiven, and plans to murder him no matter what.
C. It was a mix of all above. He loves his brother and sort of like a Dwight Shrute (shun and reshun) He put it all aside for moment to show how much he does love him, perhaps one last goodbye. But plans to kill him all the same, no matter what.
I basically think C.
If it was A, well i guess we will never know.
But if it was B. Why would Michael put on a whole act. He already told Fredo he never wants to see him ever. And Tom further told Fredo he's waiting for him to leave. So to see him one last time as front, what's the point. Do i honestly think Connie, Kate, others etc won't see through this after Fredo is killed. Worst coverup ever? By the age of Michael's son, Fredo was killed pretty much right after the funeral. Connie already pretty much knows Michael killed her husband in the first godfather. She would see right through this.
I always wished i saw the immediate aftermath on how the Michael explained to the rest of the family what happened. A half-hearted lie i'm sure. But we never see it. Man i wished they made Part III in 1976 or 1977.
First after gathering all the info Michael could get from Fredo to help with his trial, he told him that he's no longer a brother and he doesn't want to see him. Also told his bodyguard that he doesn't want anything to happen to Fredo while mother was alive. (Basically that he's dead as a doorknob after) Then at the their mother's funeral, Fredo asked Tom where's Michael etc. Tom basically said he's waiting for Fredo to leave so he can visit mother.
Now here's where my mind whirls. Then comes in their sister Connie with that one scene convincing Michael to see him leading to that heartbreaking last reunion with the two brothers embracing. Which leads to three different scenerios i think of.
A. Connie convinced Michael to see him. And for one momentarily lapse of reason, he temporally decides to forgive Fredo since he does love his brother and perhaps not kill him.
B. It was all a stone cold front to pursuade Connie and others that all is forgiven, and plans to murder him no matter what.
C. It was a mix of all above. He loves his brother and sort of like a Dwight Shrute (shun and reshun) He put it all aside for moment to show how much he does love him, perhaps one last goodbye. But plans to kill him all the same, no matter what.
I basically think C.
If it was A, well i guess we will never know.
But if it was B. Why would Michael put on a whole act. He already told Fredo he never wants to see him ever. And Tom further told Fredo he's waiting for him to leave. So to see him one last time as front, what's the point. Do i honestly think Connie, Kate, others etc won't see through this after Fredo is killed. Worst coverup ever? By the age of Michael's son, Fredo was killed pretty much right after the funeral. Connie already pretty much knows Michael killed her husband in the first godfather. She would see right through this.
I always wished i saw the immediate aftermath on how the Michael explained to the rest of the family what happened. A half-hearted lie i'm sure. But we never see it. Man i wished they made Part III in 1976 or 1977.
11-08-08, 09:04 AM
#2
I've seen it so many times I never get tired of it.
This is the way I picture things:
He loved his brother but that betrayal was extremely hard for him to accept. knowing how much they been through in the family, his father getting shot, his brother getting murdered and now that? A betrayal?
He loved his brother, but not enough to see him around and forgive and forget.
The way I also see it is, he wished things were different and wished that never happened to him.
In part III he cried and confessed killing his brother, but I'm sure perhaps that inner pain was mostly of being betrayed and wishing his brother never did that. It's like he never had a choice or an option, because of so much disgust on a blood relative stabbing him in the back.
This is the way I picture things:
He loved his brother but that betrayal was extremely hard for him to accept. knowing how much they been through in the family, his father getting shot, his brother getting murdered and now that? A betrayal?
He loved his brother, but not enough to see him around and forgive and forget.
The way I also see it is, he wished things were different and wished that never happened to him.
In part III he cried and confessed killing his brother, but I'm sure perhaps that inner pain was mostly of being betrayed and wishing his brother never did that. It's like he never had a choice or an option, because of so much disgust on a blood relative stabbing him in the back.
11-08-08, 09:13 AM
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Well put Sonic.
I tried hard not to put Godfather III into the picture because it’s easy to look back with remorse and regrets for what he has done when it’s decades later.. I am more interested in the current feelings and emotions going through his head during those moments and right after (as in the immediate aftermath which we never see when the credits role)
I tried hard not to put Godfather III into the picture because it’s easy to look back with remorse and regrets for what he has done when it’s decades later.. I am more interested in the current feelings and emotions going through his head during those moments and right after (as in the immediate aftermath which we never see when the credits role)
11-08-08, 09:44 AM
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Also remember that right after Michael gave Fredo the kiss of death, he tried to convince him to get in the car when everyone was fleeing Cuba. He told him "Fredo, you're still my brother!" I honestly feel his intent was to get Fredo off the island safely. Also, if I recall correctly, he told Tom to let Fredo know that things were okay right before he found out that Kay had lost the baby.
Those facts lead me to believe that Michael would have forgiven him, but too much time passed between the revolution in Cuba and the scene in the boat house where he gets info from Fredo. It was enough time for Michael's anger over the betrayal to decide his course of action.
Those facts lead me to believe that Michael would have forgiven him, but too much time passed between the revolution in Cuba and the scene in the boat house where he gets info from Fredo. It was enough time for Michael's anger over the betrayal to decide his course of action.
11-08-08, 10:00 AM
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Also remember that right after Michael gave Fredo the kiss of death, he tried to convince him to get in the car when everyone was fleeing Cuba. He told him "Fredo, you're still my brother!" I honestly feel his intent was to get Fredo off the island safely. Also, if I recall correctly, he told Tom to let Fredo know that things were okay right before he found out that Kay had lost the baby.
Those facts lead me to believe that Michael would have forgiven him, but too much time passed between the revolution in Cuba and the scene in the boat house where he gets info from Fredo. It was enough time for Michael's anger over the betrayal to decide his course of action.
Those facts lead me to believe that Michael would have forgiven him, but too much time passed between the revolution in Cuba and the scene in the boat house where he gets info from Fredo. It was enough time for Michael's anger over the betrayal to decide his course of action.
Last edited by Rainet; 11-08-08 at 10:01 PM.
11-08-08, 11:18 AM
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There are two Godfather movies.
Then there's some other movie where a man well past the arc of his talents tries to make a buck off a franchise name alone.
11-08-08, 09:40 PM
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and still Part III was nominated for Best Picture..I don't know how. Fucking Godfather, just cuz it is the Godfather. Though I do like some scenes specifically the little dance scene with father and daughter...
11-08-08, 10:13 PM
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I remember when Godfather III came out. I couldn't find a few reviews from known critics at the time. I chalked it up that they couldn't write an unbiased review because it's the Godfather!
I always wondered what it would of been like if they released part III back in the 70's. Because by 1990 alot of the actors that played bit parts passed away. I'm still shocked they never made part III a few years after part II. Anyone knew why?
The biggest downfall in my eyes with the 1990 Godfather Part III wasn't so much the storyline or even Cappola's daughter, but not casting Robert Duvall as Tom Hagen. I don't care how big his money demands were. He wanted the same as Al Pacino from wha i've heard. Aside from Pacino, he would be the 2nd most important character in Part III in my eyes. Francis should of fought harder for him. This isn't just any movie but a 2nd sequal to not just one, but TWO masterpieces. From what i've read, there was also suppose to be a big storyline between Tom and Michael. Huge huge loss in my eyes.
11-09-08, 12:42 AM
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I just watched The Godfather Part II for the umpteeth time the other day. One of my favorite movies. And there is one scene that i always question but i tend to leave it up to interpretation. It's the mother's funeral scene leading up to Fredo's death. I pretty much felt that once Michael gave Fredo the kiss of death from learning of Fredo's betrayal earlier, that he was a pretty much a goner.
First after gathering all the info Michael could get from Fredo to help with his trial, he told him that he's no longer a brother and he doesn't want to see him. Also told his bodyguard that he doesn't want anything to happen to Fredo while mother was alive. (Basically that he's dead as a doorknob after) Then at the their mother's funeral, Fredo asked Tom where's Michael etc. Tom basically said he's waiting for Fredo to leave so he can visit mother.
Now here's where my mind whirls. Then comes in their sister Connie with that one scene convincing Michael to see him leading to that heartbreaking last reunion with the two brothers embracing. Which leads to three different scenerios i think of.
A. Connie convinced Michael to see him. And for one momentarily lapse of reason, he temporally decides to forgive Fredo since he does love his brother and perhaps not kill him.
B. It was all a stone cold front to pursuade Connie and others that all is forgiven, and plans to murder him no matter what.
C. It was a mix of all above. He loves his brother and sort of like a Dwight Shrute (shun and reshun) He put it all aside for moment to show how much he does love him, perhaps one last goodbye. But plans to kill him all the same, no matter what.
I basically think C.
If it was A, well i guess we will never know.
But if it was B. Why would Michael put on a whole act. He already told Fredo he never wants to see him ever. And Tom further told Fredo he's waiting for him to leave. So to see him one last time as front, what's the point. Do i honestly think Connie, Kate, others etc won't see through this after Fredo is killed. Worst coverup ever? By the age of Michael's son, Fredo was killed pretty much right after the funeral. Connie already pretty much knows Michael killed her husband in the first godfather. She would see right through this.
I always wished i saw the immediate aftermath on how the Michael explained to the rest of the family what happened. A half-hearted lie i'm sure. But we never see it. Man i wished they made Part III in 1976 or 1977.
First after gathering all the info Michael could get from Fredo to help with his trial, he told him that he's no longer a brother and he doesn't want to see him. Also told his bodyguard that he doesn't want anything to happen to Fredo while mother was alive. (Basically that he's dead as a doorknob after) Then at the their mother's funeral, Fredo asked Tom where's Michael etc. Tom basically said he's waiting for Fredo to leave so he can visit mother.
Now here's where my mind whirls. Then comes in their sister Connie with that one scene convincing Michael to see him leading to that heartbreaking last reunion with the two brothers embracing. Which leads to three different scenerios i think of.
A. Connie convinced Michael to see him. And for one momentarily lapse of reason, he temporally decides to forgive Fredo since he does love his brother and perhaps not kill him.
B. It was all a stone cold front to pursuade Connie and others that all is forgiven, and plans to murder him no matter what.
C. It was a mix of all above. He loves his brother and sort of like a Dwight Shrute (shun and reshun) He put it all aside for moment to show how much he does love him, perhaps one last goodbye. But plans to kill him all the same, no matter what.
I basically think C.
If it was A, well i guess we will never know.
But if it was B. Why would Michael put on a whole act. He already told Fredo he never wants to see him ever. And Tom further told Fredo he's waiting for him to leave. So to see him one last time as front, what's the point. Do i honestly think Connie, Kate, others etc won't see through this after Fredo is killed. Worst coverup ever? By the age of Michael's son, Fredo was killed pretty much right after the funeral. Connie already pretty much knows Michael killed her husband in the first godfather. She would see right through this.
I always wished i saw the immediate aftermath on how the Michael explained to the rest of the family what happened. A half-hearted lie i'm sure. But we never see it. Man i wished they made Part III in 1976 or 1977.
Yeah.
11-09-08, 01:41 AM
#15
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Watched this instead of the PIT-WAS game on Monday night. I think Fredo knew he was cashing his chips in just to see his brother again, to made feel like a member of the family. The business ultimately dictated Michael get rid of Fredo, but it was a decision he regretted from the moment he made it. There's a few moments in III that serve the first two well, but that final shot of Michael in supposed repose in II is a fine farewell to the saga, one that lasted some 16 years.
11-09-08, 07:35 AM
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You see that look that Michael shot at Al Nieri while he was embracing Fredo at his mom's funeral? It basically said "This fucker's *DEAD*." Either the whole "reconciliatory" angle was an act, or perhaps he had a moment of forgiveness that he dropped upon seeing Fredo.
11-09-08, 09:55 PM
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It wasn't meant to be a coverup, nor an act, Michael met with him because he was still his brother, no matter how much he screwed up. Michael knew Fredo was going bye bye and that was it.
12-02-11, 04:52 PM
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Re: A question about a Godfather Part II scene (Major Spoilers)
No one seems to understand this scene....Except me! Let me explain... Look carefully at this scene when Michael embraces his brother Fredo. Connie did convince him to forgive Fredo & he ultimately would have spared his life but Fredo made yet another big mistake. If you notice, Michael actually frisks Fredo and finding a gun he was packing is when he looks up at Al Neri with that look that says.."i want him dead". Michaels thinking is this.. Why would Fredo bring a gun to their mothers funeral?!?! Basically, if it came down to Michael attempting to kill Fredo now that their mother was dead, Fredo was armed & would not hesitate to kill Michael, or atleast try, before he could kill him. Michael was forgiving him but once he knew he was armed at their mothers funeral..fredo had to go.
