The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
01-12-09, 11:42 AM
#276
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
I wanted to bring the discussion of this film to a socio-political level at which at least two distinguised commentators I quoted have: one who is far to the right and one who is far to the left. The right-wing commentator agrees that Batman is an idealized representation of Bush. The left-wing commentator also agrees that Batman is an idealized representation of Bush. But every one in this thread starts screaming like offended virgins when this question is brought up. They seem to believe that stories, narratives and works of fiction are created in a complete void that is not in any way dependent on the times we live in. I call this the "Fantasyland Fallacy".
Yes, The Dark Knight is based on a juvenile comic strip that has shown signs in the last decades of becoming "adult", at the same time its faithful readers apparently refused to grow up. Unfortunately, the way this was done was to turn a comicbook hero who at first appealed to children or teenagers into a machiavellian monster who breaks legs in order to obtain information. I think this warrants discussion. As does the fact that America's most successful movies are usually based on comics or on stories involving hired killers (choose one).
I should have known of course that this is not the place for any intelligent discussion of this type because of the anti-literary and anti-intellectual bent - not to mention the bad manners - of most posters, some of which even admit to not reading the reviews mentioned before commenting on them.
I will retire and allow the discussion to revert to its usual level, i.e. whether the articulated action figures from the movie are superior to the unarticulated resin figures or whether Spiderman can leap higher than Batman in similar atmospheric conditions.
Enjoy!
Yes, The Dark Knight is based on a juvenile comic strip that has shown signs in the last decades of becoming "adult", at the same time its faithful readers apparently refused to grow up. Unfortunately, the way this was done was to turn a comicbook hero who at first appealed to children or teenagers into a machiavellian monster who breaks legs in order to obtain information. I think this warrants discussion. As does the fact that America's most successful movies are usually based on comics or on stories involving hired killers (choose one).
I should have known of course that this is not the place for any intelligent discussion of this type because of the anti-literary and anti-intellectual bent - not to mention the bad manners - of most posters, some of which even admit to not reading the reviews mentioned before commenting on them.
I will retire and allow the discussion to revert to its usual level, i.e. whether the articulated action figures from the movie are superior to the unarticulated resin figures or whether Spiderman can leap higher than Batman in similar atmospheric conditions.
Enjoy!
All this from the guy called the Wall-E dvd case "fugly..."
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/dvd-talk/53...ml#post9081095
01-12-09, 12:03 PM
#277
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
Serious point:
FinkPish gets called out for a personal attack on another poster (which he even admits he deserved), but this guy is allowed to bad-mouth the entire DVDTalk board and posting community? No way. He needs some sort of action taken against him to prevent him posting for a while. He has nothing to offer the discussion or community besides insults.
FinkPish gets called out for a personal attack on another poster (which he even admits he deserved), but this guy is allowed to bad-mouth the entire DVDTalk board and posting community? No way. He needs some sort of action taken against him to prevent him posting for a while. He has nothing to offer the discussion or community besides insults.
01-12-09, 12:20 PM
#278
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/2008/top-grossing
These were the only "Popular Titles" new release DVDs for last week on IMDb:
Top grossing movies for 2008 in the USA
Please note that these are the top grossing films that were first released in 2008; because they may have made most of their income in a later year, they are probably not the top grossing films for calendar year 2008.
Gross Movie
530,723,626 The Dark Knight (2008)
318,298,180 Iron Man (2008)
317,011,114 Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)
227,946,274 Hancock (2008)
223,749,872 WALL·E (2008)
215,395,021 Kung Fu Panda (2008)
169,937,394 Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)
157,583,232 Quantum of Solace (2008)
154,529,187 Horton Hears a Who! (2008)
152,637,269 Sex and the City (2008)
Please note that these are the top grossing films that were first released in 2008; because they may have made most of their income in a later year, they are probably not the top grossing films for calendar year 2008.
Gross Movie
530,723,626 The Dark Knight (2008)
318,298,180 Iron Man (2008)
317,011,114 Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008)
227,946,274 Hancock (2008)
223,749,872 WALL·E (2008)
215,395,021 Kung Fu Panda (2008)
169,937,394 Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (2008)
157,583,232 Quantum of Solace (2008)
154,529,187 Horton Hears a Who! (2008)
152,637,269 Sex and the City (2008)
Bangkok Dangerous
Hitman Joe (Nicolas Cage) goes to Bangkok for a month long assignment, to kill four people for Bangkok gang lord Surat. He hires pickpocket Kong (Shahkrit Yamnarm) as his go-between, a condition of the contract being that the gang will never meet Joe. Contracts from the Bangkok gangsters go through Kong via a nightclub dancer, who becomes romantically involved with Kong. Details: Color
Pineapple Express
A new comedy from the creative genius of Judd Apatow (40 Year Old Virgin, Knocked Up, Talladega Nights) follows a pair of druggie losers as they reach the top of the hit-list when one witnesses a mob murder and drags his buddy into a crazy flight from mobsters bent on silencing both of them permanently. The film stars new sensation Seth Rogen (Knocked Up, Superbad, 40 Year Old Virgin) and James Franco (Spider-Man 1-3) and it co-stars Rosie Perez (Do The Right Thing) and Gary Cole (The Brady Bunch Movie). Movie is directed by David Gordon Green. Details: Color
Righteous Kill
Two veteran New York City detectives work to identify the possible connection between a recent murder and a case they believe they solved years ago; is there a serial killer on the loose, and did they perhaps put the wrong person behind bars?
Hitman Joe (Nicolas Cage) goes to Bangkok for a month long assignment, to kill four people for Bangkok gang lord Surat. He hires pickpocket Kong (Shahkrit Yamnarm) as his go-between, a condition of the contract being that the gang will never meet Joe. Contracts from the Bangkok gangsters go through Kong via a nightclub dancer, who becomes romantically involved with Kong. Details: Color
Pineapple Express
A new comedy from the creative genius of Judd Apatow (40 Year Old Virgin, Knocked Up, Talladega Nights) follows a pair of druggie losers as they reach the top of the hit-list when one witnesses a mob murder and drags his buddy into a crazy flight from mobsters bent on silencing both of them permanently. The film stars new sensation Seth Rogen (Knocked Up, Superbad, 40 Year Old Virgin) and James Franco (Spider-Man 1-3) and it co-stars Rosie Perez (Do The Right Thing) and Gary Cole (The Brady Bunch Movie). Movie is directed by David Gordon Green. Details: Color
Righteous Kill
Two veteran New York City detectives work to identify the possible connection between a recent murder and a case they believe they solved years ago; is there a serial killer on the loose, and did they perhaps put the wrong person behind bars?
Last edited by baracine; 01-12-09 at 12:33 PM.
01-12-09, 12:41 PM
#279
Banned by request
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
I don't see how that list helps make your point when 4 of those titles in the top-grossing list are kids movies.
Also, I don't think people are in an uproar over your attempt to bring sociopolitical discussion into the thread. They're pissed (and rightly so) because you make a point, and then dismiss the views of anyone else because they read comics, even though you also read comics. You then call this place anti-intellectual. You even acknowledged that you think anyone who reads comics, other than yourself, is a moron. Why would anyone want to have a discussion with you after that?
Also, I don't think people are in an uproar over your attempt to bring sociopolitical discussion into the thread. They're pissed (and rightly so) because you make a point, and then dismiss the views of anyone else because they read comics, even though you also read comics. You then call this place anti-intellectual. You even acknowledged that you think anyone who reads comics, other than yourself, is a moron. Why would anyone want to have a discussion with you after that?
01-12-09, 12:50 PM
#281
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
Also, I don't think people are in an uproar over your attempt to bring sociopolitical discussion into the thread. They're pissed (and rightly so) because you make a point, and then dismiss the views of anyone else because they read comics, even though you also read comics. You then call this place anti-intellectual. You even acknowledged that you think anyone who reads comics, other than yourself, is a moron. Why would anyone want to have a discussion with you after that?
Someone made a point that Harvey Pekar's writings should be considered on the same intellectual level as superhero comics when even Harvey Pekar would probably never be caught dead reading one. When I say "comics", I obviously mean American-made mainstream comics mainly concerned with violence and revenge, the kind that get made into movies that people flock to see.
01-12-09, 12:55 PM
#283
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
It's more disturbing to me that someone who doesn't know what torture porn is, and also apparently has no idea what a comic book is even when he's reading one, is arguing that "The Dark Knight" is torture porn, but "Tintin" is not a comic book.
01-12-09, 01:00 PM
#284
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
1. torture porn 42 up, 8 down
A term coined by various critics which discusses the current trend in horror Hollywood which consists of horror movies having no story whatsoever but gratuitous images of people having random body parts removed--from legs, heads to even penises (The last in Hostel 2). It's for those who don't remember the good old days where storytelling was key over visuals.
Guy: Want to rent Saw III or Hostel II?
Girl: I'm so sick of all this torture porn!
A term coined by various critics which discusses the current trend in horror Hollywood which consists of horror movies having no story whatsoever but gratuitous images of people having random body parts removed--from legs, heads to even penises (The last in Hostel 2). It's for those who don't remember the good old days where storytelling was key over visuals.
Guy: Want to rent Saw III or Hostel II?
Girl: I'm so sick of all this torture porn!
01-12-09, 01:02 PM
#285
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
Yes, yes, good job, good job. However, the key part of the argument you're obviously missing is how you can apply that term to "The Dark Knight."
Also, where's the rebuttal concerning "Tintin's" non-comic book status?
Also, where's the rebuttal concerning "Tintin's" non-comic book status?
01-12-09, 01:07 PM
#286
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
Everyone here has made some good points, if you can extricate them from the (admittedly funny) insults flying about.
01-12-09, 01:07 PM
#287
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
01-12-09, 01:09 PM
#289
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
As far as I'm aware, those are actually comics based on the movie, not the other way around.
01-12-09, 01:13 PM
#290
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
Also, where's the rebuttal concerning "Tintin's" non-comic book status?
And where is your rebuttal to the Dark Knight being a personification of the Bush administration?
Last edited by baracine; 01-12-09 at 01:15 PM.
01-12-09, 01:14 PM
#291
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01-12-09, 01:17 PM
#292
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01-12-09, 01:18 PM
#293
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
I did click on your link, and my question is, "Did you read it?" It doesn't say that Hancock was a comic first. In fact, from IGN.com:
June 23, 2008 - As the only superhero movie this summer that's not based on a previously established comic book, Will Smith's Hancock is in a unique position. But Sony Pictures, eager to connect with comic book fans across the globe, is arranging a special deal that will definitely appeal to those who recognize the following names: Neal Adams, Jock, Bill Sienkiewicz and Frank Quitely.
Sony has teamed with these fan favorite artists to create original "cover art" for the film. Best of all, they're giving prints of them away - keep an eye on the official Hancock site (click here for that) for the official entry form when it's available. IGN convinced Sony to exclusively debut all five pieces of art on our network.
Adding to IGN's Hancock presence this evening is IGN Movie's exclusive clip, which features Smith's not-so-heroic character locked in jail. You can check out the footage by clicking here.
Let's get to the artwork. First up is Jock, who is best known for his DC cover work as well as contributions to Vertigo titles like Faker and The Losers. Jock contributed two pieces to the sweepstakes.
June 23, 2008 - As the only superhero movie this summer that's not based on a previously established comic book, Will Smith's Hancock is in a unique position. But Sony Pictures, eager to connect with comic book fans across the globe, is arranging a special deal that will definitely appeal to those who recognize the following names: Neal Adams, Jock, Bill Sienkiewicz and Frank Quitely.
Sony has teamed with these fan favorite artists to create original "cover art" for the film. Best of all, they're giving prints of them away - keep an eye on the official Hancock site (click here for that) for the official entry form when it's available. IGN convinced Sony to exclusively debut all five pieces of art on our network.
Adding to IGN's Hancock presence this evening is IGN Movie's exclusive clip, which features Smith's not-so-heroic character locked in jail. You can check out the footage by clicking here.
Let's get to the artwork. First up is Jock, who is best known for his DC cover work as well as contributions to Vertigo titles like Faker and The Losers. Jock contributed two pieces to the sweepstakes.
01-12-09, 01:21 PM
#294
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
I'd also like to know how these supposed acts of "sadism" were the main selling point.
Personally, I think the idea of the movie "The Dark Knight" being representative of the Bush administration is an interesting interpretation, but that's it.
Personally, I think the idea of the movie "The Dark Knight" being representative of the Bush administration is an interesting interpretation, but that's it.
01-12-09, 01:24 PM
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01-12-09, 01:37 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
Personally, I think the idea of the movie "The Dark Knight" being representative of the Bush administration is an interesting interpretation, but that's it.
01-12-09, 01:40 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Years/2008/top-grossing
These were the only "Popular Titles" new release DVDs for last week on IMDb:
These were the only "Popular Titles" new release DVDs for last week on IMDb:
01-12-09, 01:54 PM
#299
Banned by request
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
I think the problem with the "Batman as Bush" argument is that Batman has existed long before Bush, and has gotten into trouble with Gotham authorities long before Bush ever became president. Also, I'd say there's a definite difference between a man who works outside the law, at great personal risk to himself and those around him, and man who works from within the power structure of the U.S. government.
01-12-09, 01:58 PM
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Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3
I think it's best we disregard the entire "Hancock" aspect of this conversation, as Baracine doesn't seem to know what point he's trying to make with it. As far as I can tell, he both agrees and disagrees that it is based on a comic book (which he dislikes, unless it's a comic book he likes, and then he likes it).
Wait.
What?
Wait.
What?
