Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk
Reload this Page >

The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Old 01-11-09, 02:04 PM
  #226  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 1,981
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
Interesting review of The Dark Knight by American intellectual and novelist Jim Kunstler ( http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.c...rk-knight.html ).



I find it remarkably similar to my own review on IMDb, which I wrote after seeing the DVD and never reading Jim Kunstler's review: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/usercomments-2940
I tried to stress the link between the craving for sadistic horror and right-wing political views.
Both reviews, your's in in particular, is rather...haughty.
Lee Harvey Oswald is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 02:08 PM
  #227  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 1,981
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
Nothing like a personal attack/insult to settle an intellectual argument, eh, Ryo?

P.S.: We're not talking about life here, but about films. There is still a difference.
When you throw in Bush comments in a movie review about a comic book character, labeling people who play video games, and you call Maggie G. an ugly, talentless broad you are not talking about the film.

Get off of your high horse. What a condescending review.
Lee Harvey Oswald is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 02:13 PM
  #228  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
CharlieK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,250
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

It's not even a review, it's an op-ed piece. Reviews don't imply that people who like the film are 'moral degenerates' in the headline.
CharlieK is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 02:24 PM
  #229  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by grrr View Post
Batman is clearly the anarcho-libertarian ideal (non-pacifism branch). For all the film's lip service to law and order, Batman is a criminal vigilante who commits assault each time he takes to the streets. He was initially viewed by the authorities as such a criminal, enjoyed a brief respite when he prevented a catastrophe they couldn't, and is now once again on the run for his life. This is a man who is willing to follow his belief that ethical does not equate to legal to the bitter end.
Bruce Wayne is an anarcho-libertarian capitalist who has inherited a colossal fortune from his father and uses this immense wealth to assuage his adolescent revenge fantasies. That's a given. How this character could be an inspiration to boys aged 8 to 12 for nearly 50 years is beyond me. This film takes the character further into "adult" territory under the guise of making him more "contemporary", i.e. selling tickets to more than the 8 to 12 age group. The result is an ode to legalized torture and various means of circumventing the law in pursuit of an enemy that no one tries to make sense of. Thinkers can't be blamed for seeking parallels to the present political situation.

I suspect that the fascism hounds among the ideologues use the f-word to garner attention for themselves, as vigilantes who spend their nights running from corrupt authorities are not what most people have in mind when they speak of fascism.
That's how the Brown Shirts started in Italy and the Nazis in Germany.

And in case any other intellectuals (though how one could be an intellectual sans middle initial, I can't understand) harbor the belief, the Joker almost certainly was not scarred by his father.
I was equally befuddled by the Joker's incomprehensible backstory, but that was just a drop in the bucket of murkiness that is this film's script. And Jim Kunstler's middle initial is "H" for Howard.

Last edited by baracine; 01-11-09 at 02:31 PM.
baracine is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 02:29 PM
  #230  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by Lee Harvey Oswald View Post
When you throw in Bush comments in a movie review about a comic book character, (...) you are not talking about the film.
Quoting from reviewer Andrew Klavan from the ultra-conservative, right-wing Republican Wall Street Journal:

There seems to me no question that the Batman film "The Dark Knight," currently breaking every box office record in history, is at some level a paean of praise to the fortitude and moral courage that has been shown by George W. Bush in this time of terror and war. Like W, Batman is vilified and despised for confronting terrorists in the only terms they understand. Like W, Batman sometimes has to push the boundaries of civil rights to deal with an emergency, certain that he will re-establish those boundaries when the emergency is past.

And like W, Batman understands that there is no moral equivalence between a free society -- in which people sometimes make the wrong choices -- and a criminal sect bent on destruction. The former must be cherished even in its moments of folly; the latter must be hounded to the gates of Hell.

"The Dark Knight," then, is a conservative movie about the war on terror. And like another such film, last year's "300," "The Dark Knight" is making a fortune depicting the values and necessities that the Bush administration cannot seem to articulate for beans.
(What Bush and Batman have in common, http://online.wsj.com/public/article...343482821.html)
baracine is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 02:35 PM
  #231  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25,916
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
Bruce Wayne is an anarcho-libertarian who has inherited a colossal capitalist fortune from his father and uses it this immense wealth to assuage his adolescent revenge fantasies. That's a given. How this character could be an inspiration to boys aged 8 to 12 for nearly 50 years is beyond me. This film takes the character further into "adult" territory under the guise of making him more "contemporary", i.e. selling tickets to more than the 8 to 12 age group. The result is an ode to legalized torture and various means of circumventing the law in pursuit of an enemy that no one tries to make sense of. Thinkers can't be blamed for seeking parallels to the present political situation.

That's how the Brown Shirts started in Italy and the Nazis in Germany.

I was equally befuddled by the Joker's incomprehensible backstory, but that was just a drop in the bucket of murkiness that is this film's script. And Jim Kunstler's middle initial is "H" for Howard.
I guess it's not as clear to you as it is to me.

Befuddled by the Joker's incomprehensible backstory? That's something I would expect from maybe an 8 to 12 year old but not one our DVDTalkers.

PopcornTreeCt is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 02:38 PM
  #232  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by Mazje View Post
Interesting review, Baracine. However, it does bring up the question:

What is it like to have no joy in your life?
I've never derived "joy" from either comicbooks or torture porn, so you can imagine how I feel about the mainstream marriage of the two in The Dark Knight.
baracine is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 04:12 PM
  #233  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,656
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

I don't think 8-12 year olds analyze these movies and characters as much as you and the other "critics" you've posted do, baracine. So maybe that's why they are selling so many tickets.
FinkPish is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 04:33 PM
  #234  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by FinkPish View Post
I don't think 8-12 year olds analyze these movies and characters as much as you and the other "critics" you've posted do, baracine. So maybe that's why they are selling so many tickets.
I suppose those critics and I feel an "adult" film with "adult" themes calls for an adult analysis.
baracine is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 04:40 PM
  #235  
DVD Talk Legend
 
GoldenJCJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
Posts: 13,818
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

I'll admit to not reading your review but I don't think calling The Dark Knight "torture porn" is exactly an adult analysis.
GoldenJCJ is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 04:43 PM
  #236  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Greg MacGuffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Formerly known as "Jeffy Pop"/Denver
Posts: 3,033
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
That's how the Brown Shirts started in Italy and the Nazis in Germany.
I'm sorry, but....this is a thread about Batman, right?
Greg MacGuffin is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 04:47 PM
  #237  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 1,981
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
I suppose those critics and I feel an "adult" film with "adult" themes calls for an adult analysis.
I guess the rest of us are just not as intellectual as you are trying to come off as.
Lee Harvey Oswald is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 04:56 PM
  #238  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,656
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
I suppose those critics and I feel an "adult" film with "adult" themes calls for an adult analysis.
But it's a comic book movie; it's fantastical and over the top, even if this version of it stayed a bit more realistic and didn't go as far into the fantasy realm as others have. I think you are taking all of this (as well as yourself) way too seriously.
FinkPish is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 05:02 PM
  #239  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dr Mabuse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 75 clicks above the Do Lung bridge...
Posts: 18,950
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

You know I watched this again two nights ago and I now appreciate Ledger's performance even more.

I see the 'crazy' came flooding into this thread, much like water into the Titanic, here in these recent posts.

Last edited by Dr Mabuse; 01-11-09 at 05:58 PM. Reason: typo
Dr Mabuse is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 05:23 PM
  #240  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Man, there are so many things wrong with those reviews, it's difficult to know where to start.

For one thing, The Joker's origins are purposefully left ambiguous. The Joker plays to his audience, telling a different origin every time. He may not even remember what changed him in the first place.

Secondly, anyone who calls any moment of The Dark Knight torture porn has never seen torture or porn. To suggest that the film goes to the level of the Saw films is ridiculous. Is The Joker sadistic? Yes. Is he charismatic? Yes. Is the audience rooting for him to succeed? No. As for Batman being a fascist, come on. Might as well call Superman and Spider-Man fascists as well.

Also, baracine, just out of curiosity, could you tell me what some of your favorite books are? Thanks.

Last edited by Supermallet; 01-11-09 at 05:28 PM.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 05:39 PM
  #241  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Nowheresville
Posts: 1,981
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
Also, baracine, just out of curiosity, could you tell me what some of your favorite books are? Thanks.
I was going to ask him what some of his favorite movies are, but I didn't want to get off topic. But since you're a mod, I guess it's ok. So...

Baracine, what are some of your favorite movies?
Lee Harvey Oswald is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 05:47 PM
  #242  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 16,960
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by Jeffy Pop View Post
I'm sorry, but....this is a thread about Batman, right?
That's how the Brown Shirts started in Italy and the Nazis in Germany.
majorjoe23 is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 05:55 PM
  #243  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Formerly known as "darthlurker"
Posts: 1,118
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Anyone who would call "Dark Knight" torture porn is someone who is obviously unaware of what the term means, and is either unable or unwilling to understand the difference between the use of violence in movies like "Saw" and the use of violence in movies like "Dark Knight."

I could go on further, but after reviewing several of of Baracine's posts, I think I'll take the advice of others who have posted before, and pass that advice on to others wanting to argue with him:

Mazje is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 05:55 PM
  #244  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
fumanstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55,343
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Trying to tie these movies in with politics is getting up there with the race card in annoyance level.
fumanstan is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 06:25 PM
  #245  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by Lee Harvey Oswald View Post
I was going to ask him what some of his favorite movies are, but I didn't want to get off topic. But since you're a mod, I guess it's ok. So...

Baracine, what are some of your favorite movies?
Answering that one is easy: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/8762837-post157.html

As for favourite books, they are truly too numerous to mention but you can guess that they don't include comics.
baracine is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 06:35 PM
  #246  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 16,960
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Interesting that a comic book adaptation made it on your list.
majorjoe23 is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 07:24 PM
  #247  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 14,806
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3



Batman as torture porn?



baracine frequently hides his baseless comments with big words. I would just ignore him from now on.

= J

Last edited by Tarantino; 01-11-09 at 07:26 PM.
Tarantino is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 07:28 PM
  #248  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,039
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
Interesting that a comic book adaptation made it on your list.
Calling Harvey Pekar's works "comics" is a bit like calling Stephen Sondheim's musicals "hip-hop".
baracine is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 07:42 PM
  #249  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rainy ass Seattle yes the weather sucks here, so do our sports teams.
Posts: 1,082
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

That "review" is pathetic.
Mercury&Solace is offline  
Old 01-11-09, 07:46 PM
  #250  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Formerly known as Groucho AND Bandoman/Death Moans, Iowa
Posts: 16,960
Re: The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 3

Originally Posted by baracine View Post
Calling Harvey Pekar's works "comics" is a bit like calling Stephen Sondheim's musicals "hip-hop".
No, they're comics. Pekar would happily say that himself. Calling them something else to justify your enjoyment doesn't change what they are. Comic books are a medium, same as film, art or music. Perceived quality has nothing to do with it.

Hell, his current publisher is DC Comics, they same company that publishes Batman.

Last edited by majorjoe23; 01-11-09 at 07:54 PM.
majorjoe23 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.