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Batman Begins 3 - Villain?

Old 07-27-08, 03:42 PM
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I want Guy Pearce for the riddler - let's get this Memento reunion started!
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Old 07-27-08, 03:46 PM
  #327  
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Originally Posted by mdc3000
I want Guy Pearce for the riddler - let's get this Memento reunion started!
Carrie Anne-Moss as Poison Ivy, heh.
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Old 07-28-08, 10:23 AM
  #328  
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I think I'm serious when I say that the (possible) next film should have Batman as the villain.

Think about it, he murdered Dent. He's a villain. The film could show his further descent into rule-bending and vigilantism.
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Old 07-28-08, 10:32 AM
  #329  
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Originally Posted by Trevor
I think I'm serious when I say that the (possible) next film should have Batman as the villain.

Think about it, he murdered Dent. He's a villain. The film could show his further descent into rule-bending and vigilantism.

He didn't murder Dent. They both fell when he tackled Harvey to stop him from shooting Gordon's son. If he is dead, then it's not Batman's fault. As for being the "villain." That's by choice. He's accepting a mantle he didn't earn and doesn't plan on persuing.

I'm totally down for some completely badass GCPD vs. The Batman chase scenes as well as the way he has to get around solving crimes without crossing paths with the cops, but as for his "further descent into rule-bending and vigilantism", I feel like this movie had him turn a corner with regard to that (the FISA machine, and it's eventual destruction, for example).


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Old 07-28-08, 10:32 AM
  #330  
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Originally Posted by Trevor
Think about it, he murdered Dent.
he didn't murder Dent. he saved Gordon's kid and Dent ended up dead (maybe?) as a result. when a cop shoots a criminal that is threatening the life of a hostage, that cop is not called a murderer.
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Old 07-28-08, 10:55 AM
  #331  
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We're kidding ourselves if we think the only way he could have stopped Dent was by knocking him off the roof. Come on. He had many options that would have only disabled Dent, a fairly normal guy with no super suit, no gadgets, no ninja training like Bruce.

Batman is a murderer, face it.

Last edited by Trevor; 07-28-08 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 07-28-08, 11:25 AM
  #332  
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Originally Posted by Trevor
I think I'm serious when I say that the (possible) next film should have Batman as the villain.

Think about it, he murdered Dent. He's a villain. The film could show his further descent into rule-bending and vigilantism.
He didnt murder him, he just 'didn't save a villain', again ....
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Old 07-28-08, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor
We're kidding ourselves if we think the only way he could have stopped Dent was by knocking him off the roof. Come on. He had many options that would have only disabled Dent, a fairly normal guy with no super suit, no gadgets, no ninja training like Bruce.

Batman is a murderer, face it.


Batman had just fought an entire skyscraper full of baddies, not to mention getting roughed up by Joker himself (and his big fucking dogs), then got SHOT AT CLOSE RANGE. Even if the armor took the worst of it, that would hurt like a motherfucker, and Two Face was about 4 seconds from making the kid's head dissapear. Batman leapt and tackled Harvey and they both tumbled over the edge. Batman (still clearly pretty injured) can barely hang on himself while catching the kid. In fact, he barely got the kid up safely to Gordon before he lost his own grip.

Face it Trev, you're forcing an issue to serve your desire for a third film when you are utterly alone in your "interprutation."


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Old 07-28-08, 12:23 PM
  #334  
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Originally Posted by Doc MacGyver
Face it Trev, you're forcing an issue to serve your desire for a third film when you are utterly alone in your "interprutation."

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I have no such desires. I'm just making conversation.

Tackling them off the edge was not Batman's only option, you can't deny that.
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Old 07-28-08, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor
I have no such desires. I'm just making conversation.

Tackling them off the edge was not Batman's only option, you can't deny that.
I can and I do

The paragraph above the section you quoted is my reasoning.



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Old 07-28-08, 12:58 PM
  #336  
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The more I think about it, the more I like the Riddler for a third movie. He would work well in Nolan's universe and I have confidence that Nolan and Co. could do some really interesting things with that character. The key would be to make him as little like the Joker as possible, because whoever the primary villain is in the third movie will inevitably be compared to the Joker. Give the Riddler a defined origin that spells out his motivation in a personal way, as opposed to the Joker's idealogical psychosis. Play up his intelligence, narcissism and calcuating nature and for the love of all things, avoid the purple and green wardrobe and cheesy eye mask.

I still like Deadshot as a secondary villain. I think he would make an interesting throughline and would be a good be a good counter to the Riddler, challenging Batman's braun while the Riddler challenges his brain.

As much as I think Catwoman would be interesting, I don't think she would work as a primary villain and I don't feel like Nolan has ever really done male-female chemistry very well, which would be essential to any Catwoman plot. Additionally, I think the Catwoman/Selina Kyle character works much better in a series (as opposed to a standalone movie), where the duality and tension of the Catwoman/Batman and Wayne/Kyle relationships can be explored in depth.
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Old 07-28-08, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
The more I think about it, the more I like the Riddler for a third movie. He would work well in Nolan's universe and I have confidence that Nolan and Co. could do some really interesting things with that character. The key would be to make him as little like the Joker as possible, because whoever the primary villain is in the third movie will inevitably be compared to the Joker. Give the Riddler a defined origin that spells out his motivation in a personal way, as opposed to the Joker's idealogical psychosis. Play up his intelligence, narcissism and calcuating nature and for the love of all things, avoid the purple and green wardrobe and cheesy eye mask.

I still like Deadshot as a secondary villain. I think he would make an interesting throughline and would be a good be a good counter to the Riddler, challenging Batman's braun while the Riddler challenges his brain.

As much as I think Catwoman would be interesting, I don't think she would work as a primary villain and I don't feel like Nolan has ever really done male-female chemistry very well, which would be essential to any Catwoman plot. Additionally, I think the Catwoman/Selina Kyle character works much better in a series (as opposed to a standalone movie), where the duality and tension of the Catwoman/Batman and Wayne/Kyle relationships can be explored in depth.


Kudos, Mate! I agree whole-heartedly with every bit of that, with the exception that Catwoman, if cast properly (and written that way, of course) could be a solid through-line. Her story could even be the "arc" of the film (much like Harvey) since Batman is a pretty fully-realized character at this point. She could be introduced as a "villain" of sorts - but only in the sense that she's a thief. She and Bats could do their thing, she could even perhaps be inspired by him? She could start her own anti-hero vigilante thing, only sans Batman's rules.

This could be the thread between the two of them. His demand that she obeys his rules if she's to be out and about protecting neighborhoods, and her refusal to do so.

(These are just random thoughts - Just got back from the shore so I'm not firing on all cylinders yet)



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Old 07-28-08, 01:27 PM
  #338  
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Harvey Dent, played in alternate scenes by Billy Dee Williams and Tommy Lee Jones.

The Shoe Mocker - Batman's worst enemy!
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Old 07-28-08, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc MacGyver
Kudos, Mate! I agree whole-heartedly with every bit of that, with the exception that Catwoman, if cast properly (and written that way, of course) could be a solid through-line. Her story could even be the "arc" of the film (much like Harvey) since Batman is a pretty fully-realized character at this point. She could be introduced as a "villain" of sorts - but only in the sense that she's a thief. She and Bats could do their thing, she could even perhaps be inspired by him? She could start her own anti-hero vigilante thing, only sans Batman's rules.
thanks. i agree with you that a Catwoman throughline is certainly possible and could be very interesting. i think it is just much more challenging to have the character and relationships reach their potential in a single movie.
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Old 07-28-08, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kefrank
thanks. i agree with you that a Catwoman throughline is certainly possible and could be very interesting. i think it is just much more challenging to have the character and relationships reach their potential in a single movie.

Agreed. By the very nature of serialized comic books, I sometimes think that a cable-based (HBO or Showtime, ideally) network series would be the best way to fully flesh out all of the story-lines/characters we'd love to see. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man... these will always be film franchises. They are too big a money-maker (and The Dark Knight certainly shows how epic they can be when done properly), but I'm still holding out hope for a decent HBO "Preacher" series....


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Old 07-28-08, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevor
We're kidding ourselves if we think the only way he could have stopped Dent was by knocking him off the roof. Come on. He had many options that would have only disabled Dent, a fairly normal guy with no super suit, no gadgets, no ninja training like Bruce.

Batman is a murderer, face it.
Dent isn't dead. And if he were, he had just shot Batman in the stomach, and had a gun to the Gordon's son's head. If you think that is murder, you have a very loose definition of it, or the law enforcement in your locale is operating outside of normally acceptable social norms. Face it.
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Old 07-29-08, 10:24 PM
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Old 07-30-08, 01:10 AM
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There's a interview with Jonothan Nolan at http://creativescreenwritingmagazine.blogspot.com/, it's actually not that good of an interview, Jon did one for the presitge that was awesome, and in this he just sounds kinda off and dumb, but during the interview the interviewie mentions how batman did take a life, and Nolan very creatively never says dent is dead, it's like he goes out of away to be ambiguous.

it takes place at 18:00 and at 20:30 he says harvey paid the price, so my guess is dent isnt dead.


AND Johnny Depp could be riddler. That would be freaking awesome.
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Old 07-30-08, 09:10 AM
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Okay, let me preface this by saying that I'm NOT serious and this would NEVER happen (and I'm not even sure the Riddler would work in a series like this), but...

I get home from work yesterday and one of my roommates tells me that he finally saw There Will Be Blood, and how excellent he thought the character of Plainview (as played by DDL, of course) was.

We were joking about it and somehow the conversation moved (as all seem to, these past two weeks) to Batman. I reported to him ideas from these threads (since you bastards have co-opted my life lately) and it somehow came to the fact that a lot of people want the series to end with this one since there is no way The Dark Knight could be topped, and we'll never find a villain as interesting, captivating or threatening as Heath Ledger's Joker (you may see where this is going...).

So I joked that in the tradition of Christopher Nolan repeatedly making un-thought-off and yet inspired choices, what if he was just like, "oh yeah, we cast Daniel Day Lewis as the Riddler."

Not even saying he would be good for the part (again, this is not a serious suggestion). What WAS awesome, however, was the next hour-and-a-half of Riddler quotes done in our best Daniel-Plainview-Bill-the-Butcher-Last-of-the-Mohicans-Gerry-Conlon impressions. If you're 3 or 4 beers into hanging with your mates, give it a try. Totally worth it.


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Old 07-30-08, 04:36 PM
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Jude Law would make a great riddler too.



So who would be a good batman for the 4th film if nolan and such aren't coming back??

and who would you guys cast as Mr. freeze, other then patrick stewart?
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Old 07-30-08, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by lukewarmwater
Jude Law would make a great riddler too.



So who would be a good batman for the 4th film if nolan and such aren't coming back??

and who would you guys cast as Mr. freeze, other then patrick stewart?

1. He probably would although we've already had quite a few Michael Caine/Jude Law films it seems.
2. Eric Bana or Clive Owen
3. Vin Diesel (kinda kidding) or Bruce Willis (kinda not kidding) or maybe even Jean Reno
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Old 07-30-08, 04:49 PM
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yeah jean reno would be a great mr. freeze. DDL would be a great mr. freeze too.

He's too hold now, but I always thought Loren Dean would be a perfect bruce wayne / batman. But now that I think about it ethan could be a good fit too.

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Old 07-31-08, 12:29 AM
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Angelina Jolie to play Catwoman...
http://www.news.com.au/business/stor...9-7485,00.html
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Old 07-31-08, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TNAJason
seems a little soon for this.
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Old 07-31-08, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TNAJason
I'm totally down for that.
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