The Dark Knight (Batman Begins 2) Discussion - Part 2
07-21-08, 09:18 AM
#1401
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Is there a standard specification that all IMAX screens need to meet? I went to a recently opened IMAX at The Movie Experience in Anaheim and was surprised to see it was a pretty small screen compared to other IMAXs I went too, it felt like a standard movie screen. Very disappointing.
07-21-08, 10:08 AM
#1402
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by Double_Oh_7
Is there anything cut out of the IMAX version? I thought because of the format's limitations, movies can only be two hours or less. Am I crazy?
07-21-08, 10:39 AM
#1403
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Originally Posted by Double_Oh_7
Is there anything cut out of the IMAX version? I thought because of the format's limitations, movies can only be two hours or less. Am I crazy?
According to the IMAX entry on Wikipedia:
In the fall of 2002, IMAX and Universal Studios released a new IMAX-format of the 1995 theatrical film Apollo 13. This release marked the first use of the IMAX proprietary "DMR" (Digital Remastering) process that allowed conventional films to be upconverted into IMAX format. Other theatrically released films would subsequently be rereleased at IMAX venues using the DMR process. Because of a technical limitation on the size of the film reel, these early DMR releases were edited to conform to a two-hour length limitation, causing certain scenes to be cut. Specifically, and much to the frustration of many fans, this was the case with Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones. Later releases did not have this limitation. Current IMAX platters allow a run length of up to 150 minutes
Last edited by Nick Martin; 07-21-08 at 10:46 AM.
07-21-08, 10:50 AM
#1404
DVD Talk Hero
Batman's speech at the end of the film drove me nuts - it just struck me as "fuck the truth, tell people what's the most convenient."
Also, the reasoning behind it was really confusing:
Hundreds of members of the public could refuse to blow up a boat full of murderers, who also had a detonator, without a problem. However, hearing that the DA went nuts after he was horribly disfigured and his would-be spouse was basically murdered in front of him would push them to the edge. What the fuck?
Also, the reasoning behind it was really confusing:
Hundreds of members of the public could refuse to blow up a boat full of murderers, who also had a detonator, without a problem. However, hearing that the DA went nuts after he was horribly disfigured and his would-be spouse was basically murdered in front of him would push them to the edge. What the fuck?
07-21-08, 11:37 AM
#1405
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by slop101
Batman's speech at the end of the film drove me nuts - it just struck me as "fuck the truth, tell people what's the most convenient."
Also, the reasoning behind it was really confusing:
Hundreds of members of the public could refuse to blow up a boat full of murderers, who also had a detonator, without a problem. However, hearing that the DA went nuts after he was horribly disfigured and his would-be spouse was basically murdered in front of him would push them to the edge. What the fuck?
Also, the reasoning behind it was really confusing:
Hundreds of members of the public could refuse to blow up a boat full of murderers, who also had a detonator, without a problem. However, hearing that the DA went nuts after he was horribly disfigured and his would-be spouse was basically murdered in front of him would push them to the edge. What the fuck?
07-21-08, 01:04 PM
#1406
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by slop101
Batman's speech at the end of the film drove me nuts - it just struck me as "fuck the truth, tell people what's the most convenient."
Also, the reasoning behind it was really confusing:
Hundreds of members of the public could refuse to blow up a boat full of murderers, who also had a detonator, without a problem. However, hearing that the DA went nuts after he was horribly disfigured and his would-be spouse was basically murdered in front of him would push them to the edge. What the fuck?
Also, the reasoning behind it was really confusing:
Hundreds of members of the public could refuse to blow up a boat full of murderers, who also had a detonator, without a problem. However, hearing that the DA went nuts after he was horribly disfigured and his would-be spouse was basically murdered in front of him would push them to the edge. What the fuck?
07-21-08, 01:18 PM
#1407
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My 2 cents....
The Dark Knight turned from a summer blockbuster into a cultural phenomenon over the weekend. It raked in over $155 million dollars at the box office, it's best reviewed movie in years, after 20,000+ ratings on Yahoo, it has an average rating of an A, and as I type this on imdb.com's top 250 greatest movies of all time The Dark Knight is #1 (after 40,000 + votes). It out grossed The Departed, Terminator 3, and Jerry Maguire in 48 hours.
There are a lot of reasons why, Heath Ledger, Batman Begins being as good as it was, the fascination comic book geeks like me have with Batman the character. But mostly it's because the movie is just so fucking amazing. I was biased, there was no way I was going to NOT like this thing, I knew that. But my god was I awed by it. It's a perfect film on so many levels.
Let me start out with Heath Ledger. Heath is gone, but he will live on forever with this performance. It doesn't even matter if he gets an Academy Award or not. No one who sees this movie will ever forget what Heath Did. Going in, I read that he was like Hannibal Lector or John Doe from Se7en. I didn't see Lector at all and only maybe one or two moments when he was John Doe-like.
The character I found myself comparing him to was Jame Gumb from Silence Of The Lambs. Jame Gumb was played by Ted Levine (Heat, American Gangster) Levine's performance in Silence Of The Lambs may be one of the most underrated performances in Hollywood history.
When The Joker is seated at the mob meeting, just after he pulls off the "Magic Trick" he twitches and talks with a lisp reminiscent of Jame Gumb, particularly after he is called crazy.. Heath was the Joker, and the role is his and his alone, and it will continue to be for years and years.
There were a lot of influences, Alex from A Clockwork Orange was mentioned. But I think in years to come John Doe and Hannibal Lector will both take a back seat to The 2008 Joker when villains are ranked. There are many Joker scenes I could and want to mention, but the interrogation scene is in my opinion Ledgers best moment as an actor, when Batman is slamming him against the wall and then throws him down, Ledger delivers the line "You have NOTHING..to threaten me with" with as much conviction as I have ever seen from any actor in my life.
Some of my all time favorite performances are John Hurt in 1985's Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Gary Oldman in 1990's State Of Grace, and Charlize Theron in 2003's Monster, Heath's Joker is in that class. He is THAT good.
Another reason is the score. The Dark Knight is no where near the same movie without the score by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard. Joker's theme music is haunting, the scene when they are transporting Havey Dent and there is an aerial shot of Gotham City and Joker's music is playing overhead, the squawking sound that is like nails across a chalkboard. Then we see a fire truck in the middle of the road, on fire. A road block, but also a sign that The Joker already owns Gotham City. Anarchy has already been introduced. How did he get the truck? Where are the fireman? Dead? Probably. Where are the police? Driving past the fire truck engulfed in flames and down the ramp, was scary enough, but in this scene the music was just as vital and any actor could be, you just knew they were headed into hell.
Another moment when the music blew me away was during Lau's capture in Hong Kong. Batman's theme, that whooshing sound that's half whoosh, half thump, like a giant bat flapping his wings and the constant clacking beneath it. The score is so vital, because it's just as dark as the movie is, if it were a John Williams type score (and this is in no way a knock on Williams, who is a genius) with a lot of trumpets and fast paced action music, it would have taken away from the feel of world Christopher Nolan has created. A world of darkness and fear, Batman is not a nice guy, he may not kill you, but he'll sure as hell scare the shit out you.
And then there's Nolan.
Oh, Christopher Nolan. Thanks to you comic book geeks and Batman nerds across the country now have the movie worthy enough to be placed atop their altar. The ultimate super hero movie. Everything in the genius that was Batman Begins was and is merely prologue to this masterpiece. The Dark Knight is the movie we geeks have all wished was possible, a movie worthy of it's hero, a movie about Batman made with same love and caring that Pater Jackson had for his story when he made The Lord Of The Rings. Thank you.
Nolan is fearless, he goes where many directors would never go, he sacrifices his characters for the good of the story. One of Stephen King's rules for writing Is "Kill your darlings", don't be too protective of characters because sometimes killing them is better for the story. David Fincher is the director with the one of the most famous "Kill your darlings" moment in Se7en (What's in the box?.......WHAT'S IN THE BOOOOX????).
In Batman lore, Joker has killed Jason Todd (who was briefly Robin), then went around wearing a T-shirt that read "I killed Jason Todd and all I got was this stupid T-shirt" just to rub it in. He paralyzed Barbara Gordon for life in The Killing Joke, then tortured commissioner Gordan with nude photographs of his bloodied and paralyzed daughters body in an effort to drive him insane. So Nolan stayed lovingly true to The Joker when Joker blew up Rachel Dawes, then held Harvey Dent's hand and said "It was nothing personal".
As bad as I felt for Bruce Wayne, the rage instilled in he and Batman over Rachel's death, and the fact that in the moment of her death, Two-face was born was just pure, perfect, unprejudiced filmmaking.
But again I keep coming back to Heath. The scene at Bruce Wayne's penthouse when he is holding the knife to Rachel's face and giving the second "explanation" of his scars, and says "She couldn't stand the sight of me", they way he said hello to Harvey Dent in the hospital, and the completely awkward and hilarious way he walks away from the hospital dressed as a nurse and pushes away at the detonator blowing Gotham General Hospital to hell.
There will probably be a third movie, but I feel that this should be the last Batman movie. There is absolutely nowhere to go but down from here. The city is in shambles, the Joker has won, the city thinks they won but it's a lie, the best hope Gotham had in Harvey Dent is dead, and Batman has turned himself from a vigilante hero into a fugitive wanted for the deaths of five people, two of whom were cops.
There was no happy ending, and after the second and third viewing I found myself feeling really sad, like all was lost for Batman. So where do they go from here? What villain to they bring back? Scarecrow? Do they introduce a new villain? If so, who? There were no clues to third villain at the end of The Dark Knight. I just can't think of away to make a movie about Batman's redemption and at the same time, introduce another villain.
In a perfect world, The Joker would escape from jail (like he always does) and we would get to see a rematch, and that would have been wonderful. But it's not a perfect world, and Joker's line at the end when he tells Batman "It seems like we are destined to do this forever" was in the end, the most tragic line of the whole movie.
If only.
There are a lot of reasons why, Heath Ledger, Batman Begins being as good as it was, the fascination comic book geeks like me have with Batman the character. But mostly it's because the movie is just so fucking amazing. I was biased, there was no way I was going to NOT like this thing, I knew that. But my god was I awed by it. It's a perfect film on so many levels.
Let me start out with Heath Ledger. Heath is gone, but he will live on forever with this performance. It doesn't even matter if he gets an Academy Award or not. No one who sees this movie will ever forget what Heath Did. Going in, I read that he was like Hannibal Lector or John Doe from Se7en. I didn't see Lector at all and only maybe one or two moments when he was John Doe-like.
The character I found myself comparing him to was Jame Gumb from Silence Of The Lambs. Jame Gumb was played by Ted Levine (Heat, American Gangster) Levine's performance in Silence Of The Lambs may be one of the most underrated performances in Hollywood history.
When The Joker is seated at the mob meeting, just after he pulls off the "Magic Trick" he twitches and talks with a lisp reminiscent of Jame Gumb, particularly after he is called crazy.. Heath was the Joker, and the role is his and his alone, and it will continue to be for years and years.
There were a lot of influences, Alex from A Clockwork Orange was mentioned. But I think in years to come John Doe and Hannibal Lector will both take a back seat to The 2008 Joker when villains are ranked. There are many Joker scenes I could and want to mention, but the interrogation scene is in my opinion Ledgers best moment as an actor, when Batman is slamming him against the wall and then throws him down, Ledger delivers the line "You have NOTHING..to threaten me with" with as much conviction as I have ever seen from any actor in my life.
Some of my all time favorite performances are John Hurt in 1985's Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Gary Oldman in 1990's State Of Grace, and Charlize Theron in 2003's Monster, Heath's Joker is in that class. He is THAT good.
Another reason is the score. The Dark Knight is no where near the same movie without the score by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard. Joker's theme music is haunting, the scene when they are transporting Havey Dent and there is an aerial shot of Gotham City and Joker's music is playing overhead, the squawking sound that is like nails across a chalkboard. Then we see a fire truck in the middle of the road, on fire. A road block, but also a sign that The Joker already owns Gotham City. Anarchy has already been introduced. How did he get the truck? Where are the fireman? Dead? Probably. Where are the police? Driving past the fire truck engulfed in flames and down the ramp, was scary enough, but in this scene the music was just as vital and any actor could be, you just knew they were headed into hell.
Another moment when the music blew me away was during Lau's capture in Hong Kong. Batman's theme, that whooshing sound that's half whoosh, half thump, like a giant bat flapping his wings and the constant clacking beneath it. The score is so vital, because it's just as dark as the movie is, if it were a John Williams type score (and this is in no way a knock on Williams, who is a genius) with a lot of trumpets and fast paced action music, it would have taken away from the feel of world Christopher Nolan has created. A world of darkness and fear, Batman is not a nice guy, he may not kill you, but he'll sure as hell scare the shit out you.
And then there's Nolan.
Oh, Christopher Nolan. Thanks to you comic book geeks and Batman nerds across the country now have the movie worthy enough to be placed atop their altar. The ultimate super hero movie. Everything in the genius that was Batman Begins was and is merely prologue to this masterpiece. The Dark Knight is the movie we geeks have all wished was possible, a movie worthy of it's hero, a movie about Batman made with same love and caring that Pater Jackson had for his story when he made The Lord Of The Rings. Thank you.
Nolan is fearless, he goes where many directors would never go, he sacrifices his characters for the good of the story. One of Stephen King's rules for writing Is "Kill your darlings", don't be too protective of characters because sometimes killing them is better for the story. David Fincher is the director with the one of the most famous "Kill your darlings" moment in Se7en (What's in the box?.......WHAT'S IN THE BOOOOX????).
In Batman lore, Joker has killed Jason Todd (who was briefly Robin), then went around wearing a T-shirt that read "I killed Jason Todd and all I got was this stupid T-shirt" just to rub it in. He paralyzed Barbara Gordon for life in The Killing Joke, then tortured commissioner Gordan with nude photographs of his bloodied and paralyzed daughters body in an effort to drive him insane. So Nolan stayed lovingly true to The Joker when Joker blew up Rachel Dawes, then held Harvey Dent's hand and said "It was nothing personal".
As bad as I felt for Bruce Wayne, the rage instilled in he and Batman over Rachel's death, and the fact that in the moment of her death, Two-face was born was just pure, perfect, unprejudiced filmmaking.
But again I keep coming back to Heath. The scene at Bruce Wayne's penthouse when he is holding the knife to Rachel's face and giving the second "explanation" of his scars, and says "She couldn't stand the sight of me", they way he said hello to Harvey Dent in the hospital, and the completely awkward and hilarious way he walks away from the hospital dressed as a nurse and pushes away at the detonator blowing Gotham General Hospital to hell.
There will probably be a third movie, but I feel that this should be the last Batman movie. There is absolutely nowhere to go but down from here. The city is in shambles, the Joker has won, the city thinks they won but it's a lie, the best hope Gotham had in Harvey Dent is dead, and Batman has turned himself from a vigilante hero into a fugitive wanted for the deaths of five people, two of whom were cops.
There was no happy ending, and after the second and third viewing I found myself feeling really sad, like all was lost for Batman. So where do they go from here? What villain to they bring back? Scarecrow? Do they introduce a new villain? If so, who? There were no clues to third villain at the end of The Dark Knight. I just can't think of away to make a movie about Batman's redemption and at the same time, introduce another villain.
In a perfect world, The Joker would escape from jail (like he always does) and we would get to see a rematch, and that would have been wonderful. But it's not a perfect world, and Joker's line at the end when he tells Batman "It seems like we are destined to do this forever" was in the end, the most tragic line of the whole movie.
If only.
07-21-08, 01:31 PM
#1408
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Please explain the IMAX release to me? As I understand it, portions of the film were shot using IMAX cameras.
In what aspect ratio?
Did they blow up all the other (non-IMAX) 35mm sections of the print to IMAX proportions?
Someone describe to me in detail what an IMAX presentation of this film looks like. Aspect ratio, differences between IMAX and non IMAX portions, etc.
In what aspect ratio?
Did they blow up all the other (non-IMAX) 35mm sections of the print to IMAX proportions?
Someone describe to me in detail what an IMAX presentation of this film looks like. Aspect ratio, differences between IMAX and non IMAX portions, etc.
07-21-08, 01:32 PM
#1409
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Charlize Theron in 2003's Monster? Really? I've never laughed so much before in my life at so-called acting. I will say the Ms. Theron proved herself in "North Country" and "In the Valley of Elah" though.
Now, does Mr. Ledger's performance really rank up there with Olivier in "The Entertainer" or Brando in "On the Waterfront" or Hopkins in "The Remains of the Day" or DeNiro in "Raging Bull" or Streep in "Sophie's Choice" or Hepburn in "Long Day's Journey Into Night" or Davis in "Now, Voyager" or Garland in "A Star Is Born" etc. etc. I DON'T THINK SO! He'll certainly be up there in terms of 2008 or even the 2000's, but All-Time? Sounds like "Dark Knight" fan boy hype to me.
Now, does Mr. Ledger's performance really rank up there with Olivier in "The Entertainer" or Brando in "On the Waterfront" or Hopkins in "The Remains of the Day" or DeNiro in "Raging Bull" or Streep in "Sophie's Choice" or Hepburn in "Long Day's Journey Into Night" or Davis in "Now, Voyager" or Garland in "A Star Is Born" etc. etc. I DON'T THINK SO! He'll certainly be up there in terms of 2008 or even the 2000's, but All-Time? Sounds like "Dark Knight" fan boy hype to me.
07-21-08, 01:54 PM
#1410
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Originally Posted by Cornelius1047
Yeah, definitely. Especially the part where Batman's like, "I'm going to kill you" and The Joker is all, "You IDIOT! You made me. Remember? You dropped me into that vat of chemicals. That wasn't easy to get over, and don't think that I didn't try." I mean, come Nolan brothers, at least try to be original. 
K
K
07-21-08, 02:07 PM
#1411
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Originally Posted by Mabuse
Someone describe to me in detail what an IMAX presentation of this film looks like. Aspect ratio, differences between IMAX and non IMAX portions, etc.
the IMAX footage doesn't add up to a whole lot, but what we get is AWESOME and the sound is terrific at IMAX - as well, the rest of the film looked twice as good as the 35mm print I saw, so IMAX IS THE WAY TO GO if one is near you.
07-21-08, 02:08 PM
#1412
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by mdc3000
The IMAX portions fill the entire IMAX screen (I think Nolan said it's close to 1.77:1 although it looks like 1.33:1) and then the majority of the film is presented in 2.35:1 theatrical ratio (however since it's on IMAX film, it looks HUGE anyhow, better colours and clarity than most standard screens). A lot of the IMAX footage throughout is outdoor establishing shots, cityscapes etc. and then a few of the action sequences are in full blown IMAX as well...so the movie moves from a 'full screen' feel to 'letterboxed' mode from shot to shot, sequence to sequence...
the IMAX footage doesn't add up to a whole lot, but what we get is AWESOME and the sound is terrific at IMAX - as well, the rest of the film looked twice as good as the 35mm print I saw, so IMAX IS THE WAY TO GO if one is near you.
the IMAX footage doesn't add up to a whole lot, but what we get is AWESOME and the sound is terrific at IMAX - as well, the rest of the film looked twice as good as the 35mm print I saw, so IMAX IS THE WAY TO GO if one is near you.
Admittingly, it's pretty bad when you can get a better presentation in your home theater than you can in a majority of movie theaters.
07-21-08, 04:34 PM
#1413
DVD Talk Hero
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cDxgNjMTPIs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cDxgNjMTPIs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
07-21-08, 04:55 PM
#1415
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Originally Posted by Patman
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cDxgNjMTPIs&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cDxgNjMTPIs&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
07-21-08, 04:55 PM
#1416
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally Posted by RichC2
The IMAX bits are in 1.44:1, he said with the shifting AR on the Bluray it would be converted to 1.77:1 (true 16:9). His goal is to make going to the theater (in this case, IMAX theaters) worth a damn again.
Admittingly, it's pretty bad when you can get a better presentation in your home theater than you can in a majority of movie theaters.
Admittingly, it's pretty bad when you can get a better presentation in your home theater than you can in a majority of movie theaters.
I saw Hancock in a regular theater, and while I enjoyed the film, the presentation was terrible! It was quiet and washed out. It almost made me wish I had waited for the Blu-ray. Our home theater is definitely better than that showing.
TDK on the other hand was incredible in Imax! I really believe more films in the future (especially summer blockbusters) will have to go this route... Possibly with Imax moving closer to being a "standard" in the future.
07-21-08, 05:05 PM
#1418
DVD Talk Hero
It gets better. I was howling over this one:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
07-21-08, 05:11 PM
#1419
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Originally Posted by matrixrok9
He didn't discredit the filmmakers. He just said it reminded him of the 89 version. Way to get defensive.
Originally Posted by Cornelius1047
The aforementioned scene and some other stuff actually did remind me of Tim Burton's Batman. I was just joking. And I sure as hell didn't put words in your mouth. In fact, if anything, I put words in Heath Ledger's mouth.
Great, now I am getting defensive! I can't win.
K
* For the record, I like or love most of Tim Burton's work, including the first two Batman movies.
07-21-08, 05:24 PM
#1421
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Originally Posted by Quake1028
First one blew but the second one was fucking awesome.
07-21-08, 05:47 PM
#1422
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Here is my original review, plus an essay called On Violence and Restraint in The Dark Knight, which is a response to the rather angry review that Keith Uhlich wrote at The House Next Door.
07-21-08, 07:16 PM
#1423
Originally Posted by Patman
It gets better. I was howling over this one:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w2yv8aT0UFc&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
That was great!