tanman

Can someone explain the Borg connection to me? Is it cannon? Where is it mentioned? How did it happen?

Superman07

I had read the books, but forgot the connection (and asked the same question a few pages back). Absent an answer, Wiki to the rescue.

toddly6666

After seeing the new Star Trek film, I got interested in seeing the old movies since the only ones I ever saw was the one with the whale/evil cylinder and the one with the Borg Queen. Everyone has recommended Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan as being the best of the old Star Trek films. So I rented that and I thought it was painfully bad, boring, and slow. What do people like about Star Trek 2? So much for sparking interest in the old ones. I guess I'm just going to have to wait till the sequel to this new one.

NitroJMS

I've never been a big fan of Wrath of Khan (not that I dislike it), but I think IV, VI and First Contact are perhaps the most the entertaining and well-rounded. They are all easily viewable to non-fans and stand alone well from the series. Unfortunately, you've seen 2 of them already.

IV is easy to watch since it just throws the well known original cast into everyday "modern" life and plays it mostly for comedy, which works really well despite not having much space action to move it along. VI is just a classic Klingons vs. Federation thriller with Christopher Plummer along as villain Chang. Klingons are "The Joker" of the Star Trek universe, so anytime you have Kirk vs. Klingons, its fairly accessible. Finally, First Contact is just an amazingly good film. Great cast (Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and the regulars all work well as usual, plus you've got James Cromwell, Alfre Woodard and Alice Krige), great effects, and a story that tells the early origin of the Federation/Starfleet. I wrote a longer review over on my site: http://www.cinamerica.com/?p=651

Check out some of classic Trek on Youtube, http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...048A7C541C941C

hasslein

All this hate for V, although it's flawed there are some great moments... The opening... I liked the message of the movie, and it has one of my top five Star Trek moments, what TV guide called the most pressing question of the year, When Kirk asks

Ronnie Dobbs

I read that Star Trek was rushed out due to the popularity of Star Wars and all the studios wanted to put scifi movies out to ride the money wave. Same thing with Blade Runner.

Superman07

Sorry, Star Trek V is just plain bad. I thought the fan edit could make it better, as well as the directors cut on dvd some years back. I hadn't seen it in a while so I went into it with an open mind. Still couldn't rescue it. I think the main faults (again, been some time) is that it was too heavy handed and misused the characters in the middle part. The story and the opening/closing segment are true TOS, but everything else is just plain wrong.

While I enjoy ST II, I still maintain that ST VI is my favorite of the original movies.

I'm curious how a fan edit of TMP would work if you could cut it down to 1:45:00 or thereabouts. The story is quite good, but the pacing is so dang slow. Plus the opening trip to the Enterprise is probably one of the top 5 epic scenes in Star Trek.

Panda Phil

Enjoying ST II is a lot easier if you were a fan of the original cast, AND were around when TMP came out. A lot of fans at the time credit II for actually saving Trek, as it brought back a lot of the cast interaction that everyone knew and loved from the old show. Gotta keep in mind that it is nearly 30 years old, and probably doesn't compare well if you're used to more modern CG action-fests.

Personally its still near the top of my Trek film list.

And I'm sorry, but ST V is still the only on eof the series I don't own on dvd. Even at $7.99 I just can't bring myself to drop it in my shopping cart. Apart from a couple of scenes, the musical score, and Kirks great "What does God need with a starship?" line, its all pretty much a waste.

Ash Ketchum

The first STAR TREK movie is the only one I really liked.

Fanboy

Wait...huh? Has there been a Directors' Cut DVD release? Where is this?

As for ST:TMP, I've always been a fan of the film since repeated viewings of it on television as a child. There is something about the movie -- whether it's the special effects, the epic sequences or the much-mentioned score -- that appeals to me greatly.

That said, I've never been able to watch the movie in one sitting. I inevitably fall asleep at about the 2/3 mark.

adamblast

ST:TMP is as close to a great film as *any* of the Star Trek movies. None of them are exactly masterpieces, but it but has moments of brilliance and lots to recommend about it.

It's unpopularity today is only *in part* due to real problems with the film. It's not a popcorn movie. Its chief inspiration was 2001, and it takes the same leisurely, stately approach to its imagery and storytelling. It was for adults, not kids, and it took its science fiction seriously. These were the days *before* the blockbuster. It tried to make awe and wonder at seeing strange visions a palpable thing.

That said, the script is far too weak/thin/shallow for the importance and majesty Robert Wise's direction tries to give it.

If you really love the Enterprise, tho, you can't miss it, just for the way the camera loves the ship. It features a lovingly slow approach "reveal" that does more to make the ship a thing of beauty--and a character--than has ever been done before or since.

In The Sound of Music, remember the long, stately prolog leading up to the reveal of Maria twirling on the hill singing "the hills are alive"? That's vintage Robert Wise, and part of the movie vocabulary that's been shortened to "single establishing shot--if any".

Superman07

Perhaps I was mistaken. I thought the 2 disc dvd had some extended scenes - maybe there were just deleted and not put back in the film.

adamblast

I seem to remember Shatner complaining loudly that he was not given the chance to make a new director's cut for the 2-disc grey edition of ST V. Only the first two movies were called "Director's Editions", then Paramount cut costs again and went with "Special Collector's Editions" with everything new on the extras disc.

hasslein

V is better than Abrams' version.

Supermallet

Mod Note: hasslein, your comments are veering into troll territory. This is not a discussion about the new Star Trek film.

gmanca

I was always more of a fan of Star Trek than Star Wars as a kid, having bought "The Motion Picture" on VHS and getting the 25th anniversary boxset and really only caught parts of the original show on late Saturday night repeats.

I always liked Wrath of Khan because it was a tightly-woven story; sure it was full of cliches and hokey moments, but it worked. Goldsmith's score is especially awesome in the scenes where the two ships are chasing each other in the nebula. And since I hadn't seen the Space Seed episode with the Botany Bay, the feud between Kirk and Khan was mysterious to me and probably helped in my enjoyment of it.

The Motion Picture on the other hand is really cool looking, but it's completely empty story-wise. The mysterious and unknowingly destructive probe idea worked better in IV. And VI is great because of the political aspect of the story and it's allegory to the Soviet Union.

Supermallet

Didn't James Horner do the score for II?

gmanca

You're right, I always get that confused with the Motion Picture.

hasslein

The question was brought up about the quality of V. You didn't call someone a troll that compared other Star Trek films (VI is better than II etc.) Just because my opinion differs from yours does not make me a troll.

Nick Martin

Yes. He's my favorite composer (let the bashing begin).

I'm looking forward to the new Blu-ray which is supposed to have a bonus feature called "James Horner: Composing Genesis".


The composers for each film are:

1. The Motion Picture: Jerry Goldsmith (one of the great film music moments I've ever seen/heard is his tribute to the Enterprise)

2. The Wrath Of Khan: James Horner (who followed Goldsmith a second time by scoring one of his sequels - "Aliens")

3. The Search For Spock: James Horner

4. The Voyage Home: Leonard Rosenman (that Christmas-type score....oy...)

5. The Final Frontier: Jerry Goldsmith (10 years after his original)

6. The Undiscovered Country: Cliff Eidelman

7. Generations: Dennis McCarthy (composer for the various Trek TV series and the Deep Space Nine title theme)

8. First Contact, 9. Insurrection, 10. Nemesis: all Jerry Goldsmith

11 (if you count it as the eleventh, but perhaps it's more of a "Batman Begins" situation where it doesn't follow the established sequel line of previous films): Michael Giacchino

Supermallet

This discussion has been about the original cast films, with a mention or two of the TNG films. You can cry foul all you want, but your comment was undoubtedly trolling. Now quit it.

On a lighter note, I decided to throw the DVD of TMP on thanks to this thread. I haven't seen this since I was about 8 years old. Brings back all kinds of memories.

Supermallet

OK, finished my viewing. TMP is not a good movie. It's not that nothing happens, it's that it takes so damn long for everything to happen. And despite the enormity of V'ger and the special effects, it doesn't feel like the crew is interacting with anything. There's almost no humor, and everything feels stilted. This was based off the pilot for the proposed Star Trek: Phase II TV show, and I could see how it would work well in a 30-60 minute time frame. But the plot can't keep our interest.

The movie is clearly inspired by 2001, my favorite film of all time. But Star Trek isn't 2001. 2001 is rich in concept, themes, and execution. TMP has lavish visual effects, and that's it. I'm not sure there even was a theme. But, on the plus side, the music is always fantastic (aside from that godawful blaring they use to announce V'ger's presence). Star Trek V had worse direction, but at least it was about something, which is more than I can say of TMP.

DJariya

I liked TMP, but I don't think it has as much replay value as the later films.

Does anyone think that Robert Wise was absolutely the wrong director to helm it?

Out of all the original series films, I think Nicholas Meyer and Leonard Nimoy did the best jobs directing.

It is kind of a sad that Persis Khambata, who played Ilia (the bald chick) died 10 years ago at age 49 from a heart attack. She was actually quite attractive with hair:

http://www.poster.net/khambatta-pers...ta-6233678.jpg

Supermallet

I thought she was quite attractive even without the hair.

Hokeyboy

She was WAY hot without hair. That screenshot of the smirk gave me *needs*.

Incidentally, I really like TMP. It's not a perfect movie. There are definite story problems, pacing issues, and the script issues during filming were legendary (no finished script, constant rewrites, scenes inserted that made no sense, etc.). Still, what I like about the film is it's epic scope. It *feels* like a big motion picture, it has a sense of grandeur and majesty, even poeticism. There's a sense of meditativness that harkens back to Kubrick or Tarkovsky. For the first time, the Enterprise really felt like a majestic ship staffed by hundreds, rather than a few sets with the saem 4 or 5 extras walking back and forth.

I admire and appreciate the movie more than I "like" it, but I do like it. I *love* Wrath of Khan, because it was really a character piece with some great lines, action sequences, and a sense of naval adventure -- the Enterprise/Reliant battle in the nebula at the end was a KILLER 1940s submarine battle extrapolated to the 23rd century. Part 3 was OK, Part 4 was fun and cuddly for the whole family, 5 was an abortion, and 6 was cool but an PAINFULLY "self-conscious" Star Trek movie with some really cringe-inducing scenes.

Never liked the TNG movies at all. Actually, I thought "Generations" was OK, but the remainder of the films went steadily downhill afterwards with diminishing returns in quality (I always felt "First Contact" was a collossal bore, especially the scenes in the past).

TMP always felt different, grander, richer. Not a great movie, not even a very good movie, but a compelling one, for some reason. I also like porn and occasionally Korean barbeque.