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Star Wars Question re: Biggs

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Star Wars Question re: Biggs

Old 03-14-07, 01:23 PM
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Star Wars Question re: Biggs

In the 1997 Special Edition there is an added scene where Luke and Biggs are reunited just before the attack on the Death Star.

There is a jump cut in this scene that cuts a bit of the dialogue. What is the missing dialogue?
Old 03-14-07, 01:37 PM
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I found this from what is apparently the original script. Whether or not all of this was actually shot is a different story:

BIGGS: Luke! I don't believe it! How'd you get here...are you going
out with us?!

LUKE: Biggs! Of course, I'll be up there with you! Listen, have I got
some stories to tell...

Red Leader, a rugged handsome man in his forties, comes up
behind Luke and Biggs. He has the confident smile of a born
leader.

RED LEADER: Are you...Luke Skywalker? Have you been checked out on the
Incom T-sixty-five?

BIGGS: Sir, Luke is the best bushpilot in the outer rim territories.

Red Leader pats Luke on the back as they stop in front of
his fighter.

RED LEADER: I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a
great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's
skill, you'll do better than all right.

LUKE: Thank you, sir. I'll try.

Red Leader hurries to his own ship.

BIGGS: I've got to get aboard. Listen, you'll tell me your stories
when we come back. All right?

LUKE: I told you I'd make it someday, Biggs.

BIGGS: (going off) You did, all right. It's going to be like old
times, Luke. We're a couple of shooting stars that'll never be
stopped!
Old 03-14-07, 01:52 PM
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That scene has always bothered me. There is a mention of Biggs in the beginning and then they meet just before the end. As a viewer the connection is just not there. I've seen the deleted scenes on Tatooine w/ the two characters and feel that if that was inserted every scene w/Biggs would have meant something. Otherwise, they should have cut the character out altogether.
Old 03-14-07, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mrhan
That scene has always bothered me. There is a mention of Biggs in the beginning and then they meet just before the end. As a viewer the connection is just not there. I've seen the deleted scenes on Tatooine w/ the two characters and feel that if that was inserted every scene w/Biggs would have meant something. Otherwise, they should have cut the character out altogether.
But when Biggs dies theres a moment where Luke pauses, feeling the impact of his death. Having at least one scene showing them happy and excited together gives this moment a little more meaning. In the original cut you have to basically make the connection to a few lines in the beginning where Biggs was mentioned. The 1997 and 2005 versions at least have another reminder before the fight so its something to keep in mind in the heat of the battle.
Old 03-14-07, 04:05 PM
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RED LEADER: I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a
great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's
skill, you'll do better than all right.

LUKE: Thank you, sir. I'll try.

RED LEADER: Unless, of course, we end up fighting your father today. But what are the odds of that happening? A million to one? Nope. You'll do just fine.

LUKE: But my father's dead, sir.

RED LEADER: That's the spirit! He's dead to all of us. And don't you forget it.

[Awkward silence]

Red Leader hurries to his own ship.
Old 03-14-07, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mrhan
That scene has always bothered me. There is a mention of Biggs in the beginning and then they meet just before the end. As a viewer the connection is just not there. I've seen the deleted scenes on Tatooine w/ the two characters and feel that if that was inserted every scene w/Biggs would have meant something. Otherwise, they should have cut the character out altogether.
well maybe in Lucas' mind one day he might reinstate those early scenes... wait that scratch that, don't give George anymore ideas on how to improve or furthur beat the dead horse on 'A New Hope' revisions.
Old 03-14-07, 04:16 PM
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Palavar, that was priceless!
Old 03-14-07, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Giles
well maybe in Lucas' mind one day he might reinstate those early scenes... wait that scratch that, don't give George anymore ideas on how to improve or furthur beat the dead horse on 'A New Hope' revisions.
I've been hoping for Lucas to reinsert all those lost scenes into Episode 4 for years! He could even call it "A Newer Hope."
Old 03-14-07, 07:02 PM
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Thanks for the help. Good thing those lines about Lukes father were cut, it would create too many discrepencies.
Old 03-14-07, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mabuse
Thanks for the help. Good thing those lines about Lukes father were cut, it would create too many discrepencies.
Good thing Lucas had the foresight to take that out of the movie! The six movies flow together so much better now!
Old 03-15-07, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Palaver
RED LEADER: I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a
great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's
skill, you'll do better than all right.

LUKE: Thank you, sir. I'll try.

RED LEADER: Unless, of course, we end up fighting your father today. But what are the odds of that happening? A million to one? Nope. You'll do just fine.

LUKE: But my father's dead, sir.

RED LEADER: That's the spirit! He's dead to all of us. And don't you forget it.

[Awkward silence]

Red Leader hurries to his own ship.
Old 03-15-07, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Palaver
RED LEADER: I met your father once when I was just a boy, he was a
great pilot. You'll do all right. If you've got half of your father's
skill, you'll do better than all right.

LUKE: Thank you, sir. I'll try.

RED LEADER: Unless, of course, we end up fighting your father today. But what are the odds of that happening? A million to one? Nope. You'll do just fine.

LUKE: But my father's dead, sir.

RED LEADER: That's the spirit! He's dead to all of us. And don't you forget it.

[Awkward silence]

Red Leader hurries to his own ship.
Oh man, note to self. Do not drink hot liquids while reading this post.
Old 03-15-07, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mabuse
Thanks for the help. Good thing those lines about Lukes father were cut, it would create too many discrepencies.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The two trilogies connect so well. Like Leia remembering Padme' while Luke doesn't, yet both were newborns when she "lost the will to live".
Old 03-15-07, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Doughboy
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The two trilogies connect so well. Like Leia remembering Padme' while Luke doesn't, yet both were newborns when she "lost the will to live".
Maybe Mrs. Senator Antilles died young or something...
Old 03-15-07, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Doughboy
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. The two trilogies connect so well. Like Leia remembering Padme' while Luke doesn't, yet both were newborns when she "lost the will to live".

I think the most annoying thing about Star Wars is how so many fans have selective memory.

In TESB, after Luke starts having nightmares about Han and Leia, Yoda starts telling him about Force visions, he tells of him things he will see: not just the future, but "old friends, long gone". I dont think it is any stretch of the imagination to think that Leia saw her mother through the Force. She says she only remembers images and feelings, not exactly what she looked like.
Old 03-16-07, 09:45 AM
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Oh bollocks, using the Force to describe a major plot inconsistentcy is a dumb fall back. Unfortunately, its a convenient way for Lucas to explain things away that don't make sese. If she had never personally known her mother, you think she would have said, I never met her but some reason I can't explain, I know what she looks like and I know her sadness.

Originally played in ROTJ, there is no doubt that Leia knew who her mother was. Even using the line you quote, "old friends" implies you knew the person for a bit before they were "long gone"

Now I guess the better argument would be that the mother Leia knew was not actually Padme but maybe Organa's wife - but that argument really makes Leia's discussion moot because Luke was asking about their common mother.
Old 03-16-07, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chanster
Now I guess the better argument would be that the mother Leia knew was not actually Padme but maybe Organa's wife - but that argument really makes Leia's discussion moot because Luke was asking about their common mother.
Luke specifically says "your mother, your REAL mother" when asking Leia what she remembers. There's no doubt he's emphasizing the fact that she had a birth mother and an adopted one and that she was old enough when the former died to know the difference between the two.

It's a plothole. Granted there are other glaring ones as well(Ben and Owen not recognizing 3PO and R2 in A New Hope), but this one really sticks out.
Old 03-16-07, 02:50 PM
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Owen not recognizing 3PO
But he does recognize exactly what he is, "You must be programed for etiquette and protocal." Even though he lived out in the sticks, Owen clearly has met a droid like this before. Remember the last time he saw 3PO he had drasticly different cladding.
Old 03-16-07, 02:52 PM
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This scene shows that Lucas did not have Darth Vader as Lukes father back in 1977, even though he claims now it was always 'The Tragedy of Darth Vader.'
Old 03-16-07, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Doughboy
It's a plothole. Granted there are other glaring ones as well(Ben and Owen not recognizing 3PO and R2 in A New Hope), but this one really sticks out.
I'm not one to believe Lucas had this entire saga planned out from the beginning. But honestly, this never bothered me. Owen clearly wants the droids memories erased as soon as he realizes their identities. And R2 seems to know exactly where he's going when he reaches Tatooine, so the suggestion is strong that he had visited the planet once before. Obi-Wan pretending to not recognize R2 does not seem to be any bigger of a plothole than him telling Luke that Vader "betrayed and murdered your father."
Old 03-16-07, 07:10 PM
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Biggs: "Luke, I've missed you and your hot young body."

Luke: "Ohh, kiss me lover boy"
Old 03-16-07, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Mabuse
But he does recognize exactly what he is, "You must be programed for etiquette and protocal." Even though he lived out in the sticks, Owen clearly has met a droid like this before. Remember the last time he saw 3PO he had drasticly different cladding.
And the fact that droids like 3PO and R2 aren't unique, they're a dime a dozen. Remember the 3PO clone in Cloud City. Anakin didn't as much invent 3P0 as he sent in for a "Build Your Own Protocol Droid" kit from a comic book ad.
Old 03-16-07, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by coli
This scene shows that Lucas did not have Darth Vader as Lukes father back in 1977, even though he claims now it was always 'The Tragedy of Darth Vader.'
Funny, considering he included "The Adventures of Luke Skywalker" in the title of the first book.
Old 03-16-07, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jadow
And the fact that droids like 3PO and R2 aren't unique, they're a dime a dozen. Remember the 3PO clone in Cloud City. Anakin didn't as much invent 3P0 as he sent in for a "Build Your Own Protocol Droid" kit from a comic book ad.
Right. We saw several R# units and protocol droids in several scenes in the movies, all which resembled R2 and C-3PO. The coloring and minor changes would be made, but they were like vacuum cleaners of that time period.
Old 03-17-07, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jadow
And the fact that droids like 3PO and R2 aren't unique, they're a dime a dozen. Remember the 3PO clone in Cloud City. Anakin didn't as much invent 3P0 as he sent in for a "Build Your Own Protocol Droid" kit from a comic book ad.
R2-D2 I could understand not recognizing, but how many droids that look like C3PO have an English Butler Accent? Come on, his voice is so distinguishable, comparable to seeing an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie 20 years later and not recognizing his voice.

Plot Hole #355 created by the PT.

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