Bartram, wow :lol:

I like Burton's movies the most, but Kilmer was definitely good for the part, he filled Keaton's shoes nicely. Billy Dee Williams is the best Harvey Dent however and would most likely have been a great Two-Face.

Keaton's Batman was my favorite though, as Batman he felt like he was a force instead of just a tough guy in a suit, like was part of the night, a presence. He comes across as complex and smart, and he seemed twisted like a sociopath. I recall somewhere Burton said it was something in Keaton's eyes.

I'd liked Carrey and Kilmer (however, I did hate the before mentioned "Harvey, I am Batman" circus scene).

I could not stand TLJ as Two Face. They totally screwed up the character. Didn't really care the plot either. I didn't like all the neon crap either. Kidman was really hot in this movie.

Batman Begins is my favorite movie and Bale is my favorite Batman.
Keaton was my favorite Bruce Wayne, but Bale was really good to.
Batman Begins had the best plot followed by Batman 89.
Batman Begins got all the villians right. Jack's Joker was really good.

This movie never should have been made.

I always liked Batman Forever. It was my 2nd favorite in the original Burton/Sh-tmaker series after the first film.

But I'd also read the novelization before seeing the movie, so I was able to fill in the blanks left by the butcher job they did in the editing room. The whole red book subplot could've added a lot of depth to the character of Bruce Wayne if they didn't cut it out due to length. Thankfully Batman Begins finally dealt with Bruce's guilt over his parents' deaths(I love that scene where Alfred consoles him).

The biggest problem in Forever is Two-Face. It's not like Tommy Lee Jones couldn't have handled the part. But Sh-tmaker for some reason wanted him to channel Nicholson's Joker the entire time. I look forward to seeing what Aaron Eckhart and Chris Nolan do with the character.

Re: Batman Forever
 

Why is this movie playing on PBS Channel 13 tonight? Is PBS that desperate for Saturday night viewers?

I watched a bit to see how worse it dated, and yes, this film gets worse and worse.
Awful special effects...Why is Tommy Lee Jones acting like the Joker? Why does it seem like Val Kilmer is just pushed around as if he doesn't want to be in this film? I actually think Robin is the least annoying character in this film now. Nicole Kidman is actually hot in it. But god, this film is just as bad as Batman & Robin.

Re: Batman Forever
 

PBS has been playing it for a while now, I remember seeing an advert in October and it struck me as a bit weird as well. Then again, I believe Batman 89 was also on PBS.

Re: Batman Forever
 

When did PBS start playing regular non-arty films? This is sort of shocking and I have never noticed this till tonight.

Re: Batman Forever
 

I have no idea; I know they have for a while now as A Fish Called Wanda used to be on a lot. They've also shown older films like Some Like it Hot.

Re: Batman Forever
 

Can't stand the Schumacher Batman movies, although Batman & Robin is much worse then Forever. Havent seen this in a long time, so was hoping it was on Cable to see how it held up.

Re: Batman Forever
 

I always thought that Keaton made the better Batman/Bruce Wayne. Obviously he has much going against him but his talent, IMO, is what made the character.

I liked the scene where Bruce Wayne confronts the Joker in Vicki Vales apartment.
It just felt like he gave the character some intensity whereas, Kilmer, who fits the bill physically, seemed very generic.

This is what I was trying to say.

Re: Batman Forever
 

There's a fan cut of Batman Forever online (I forget what it's called) and it's much, much better. Some of the scenes are switched around and it's more tight. A lot of useless crap is cut. Put together it's best of the 90s bunch.

Re: Batman Forever
 

qft

Re: Batman Forever
 

Yeah, there's a ton of crap you could cut and add in and make it a much better film. The whole Riddler and Two-Face take the town sequence comes to mind.

Re: Batman Forever
 

I was completely on board with the news when Keaton was first cast. I thought it was creative, outside the box thinking, and it would give the character some interesting facets that no one would have expected.

But after seeing the film He didn't work for me, and it wasn't until the sequel that I figured out why- Keaton plays the character as someone from a working class background. It is imbued in the character's DNA as essayed by MK- the way he talks, the way he stands, the way he gestures.
Kilmer wasn't a home run either, but he at least put out the vibe of someone who is descended from money and has lived with that privilege all his life.

As far as the film itself, I enjoyed it more back in '95. TLJ was always weak (I don't blame Schumacher, I blame the actor who was probably on a Diva trip coming off his oscar win), Carrey was a tedious spaz, and the Robin subplot was irritating. But it was nice to see a Batman movie that wasn't afraid to try to be fun, and that didn't fizzle out in the last act the way most of Burtons films seem to. It was well paced, and for a change, Batman actually did some detective work. Also the nod to the old style death traps was fun and appreciated.

Tried watching all of these again recently and I just can't do it. After about 10 minutes I start hating myself for wasting time on these and have to watch something else. I couldn't even bring myself to spend $5 on the Blu-rays a couple weeks back.

Re: Batman Forever
 

Batman Forever is terrible. I watched it earlier this year when I bought the 4 Film Favorites. Just terrible. Batman & Robin isn't even watchable.

Re: Batman Forever
 

So better than Returns and Batman and Robin?

Re: Batman Forever
 

Chris O'Donnell sucked as Robin, hammed it up too much. I still lol at Alfred referring to him as "Master Dick". Liked Val Kilmer and Nicole as Chase Meridian. I've pulled it out (the movie) and plan on watching it this coming Thanksgiving weekend, along with PT&A (of course)

Re: Batman Forever
 

My biggest problem with this movie - they mixed the title up with the fourth one.

This one should have been called "Batman and Robin." It makes no sense why the next one is called that. The fourth one should have naturally been titled "Batman FORever."

Re: Batman Forever
 

I haven't watched any of the Batman sequels in several years, though I'm planning on it as soon as my Batman Returns Blu-ray arrives (fingers crossed for tomorrow!). My recollection, though, has always been that while watching Batman Forever I enjoy it immensely and five minutes after it's over I've forgotten how I've spent the last two hours. "Vapid" is the most accurate way I can think to describe the movie.

I second those who balk at the way Two-Face was squandered, and those who thought Kilmer brought an appreciable new dimension to Bruce Wayne. More insulting than what they did with Two-Face was the way Commissioner Gordon was reduced to a cheerleader offering rudimentary exposition and dashing to the roof of GCPD in his robe.

Ultimately, for me, Batman is the single most durable character in all of fiction. You can literally put the guy in any time and place and manage to come up with an interesting and/or entertaining story somehow. I think of the Legends of the Dark Knight anthology comic, and how it would periodically give us a completely abnormal take on Batman. Sometimes I struggled to enjoy them, but I always appreciated the willingness on the part of the writers and artists to try something different with the mythos. Batman Forever isn't the most intelligent Batman story ever told, that's for sure, but I've always thought it was fun.

I wouldn't want to see a production design like that often, but I thought it fit the story being told. We're told that "decent people shouldn't live in [Tim Burton's Gotham City]," and it seems that regular people don't live in Schumacher's Gotham. It's not the Gotham I expect or prefer, but for the purpose of this movie I can dig it.

Re: Batman Forever
 

Better than Batman Returns and Batman & Robin I can get behind, but there's no way you'll convince me it's better than Mask of the Phantasm.

Re: Batman Forever
 

Mask of the Phantasm is a masterpiece! I love the opening music. So epic.

Re: Batman Forever
 

It's still easily my favorite of the 4 80's/90's Batman films, and the only one of that bunch I care to own on Blu-ray.

Re: Batman Forever
 

This movie is always fun to watch. I have it on DVD. I was thinking the same thing the other day about Jim Carrey as Riddler.

Re: Batman Forever
 

I don't care for Returns or Batman & Robin, so in my opinion, yes.