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Do the Star Trek movies stand alone from the TV series?

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Do the Star Trek movies stand alone from the TV series?

Old 02-24-07, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by taffer
Believe it or not, but I have never seen any of the Star Trek TV shows or movies. For some unexplainable reason, I just decided that I want to get into them. Do I need to watch the TV shows in order to understand the movies, or can I just jump straight into the movies? Looking on wikipedia, I see that there are four or five different TV series. Are they all good, or are there some to avoid?
You can join me in my quest! http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread....79#post7666579

Just kidding, I hope few are as ocd as I with this ST obsession this year.

I concur with most of the above advice.

If you are really unsure if you'll like ST, start with ST2:The Wrath of Khan. If you don't like that, move along. It is the best Trek has to offer. Preferably, watch the prequel TOS episode first.

The 2nd thru 4th movies are a great trilogy, but 6 might be my personal favorite. I don't think that 1 and 5 are that bad.

On the different series, opinions range wildly of course. Some prefer the original series over the next generation, some vice versa. Most probably agree that those two series are the best two.

Personally, I strongly prefer TOS, then DS9 slightly ahead of TNG (although I missed a lot of DS9 so my opinion may change after I watch it all later this year).
Old 02-24-07, 11:44 AM
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Don't listen to the Nemesis haters. For someone like you, who hasn't been a Trek nerd their whole life, I'm willing to bet that you'll like it plenty (I have been a Trek nerd my whole life and I love it). It has one of the best space battles in the entire Trek universe, and is the first DVD I grab to show off my home theater. I have yet to play it for someone that didn't end up liking it.
Old 02-24-07, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
Don't listen to the Nemesis haters. For someone like you, who hasn't been a Trek nerd their whole life, I'm willing to bet that you'll like it plenty (I have been a Trek nerd my whole life and I love it). It has one of the best space battles in the entire Trek universe, and is the first DVD I grab to show off my home theater. I have yet to play it for someone that didn't end up liking it.
I didn't think Nemesis was that bad - certainly a big step up from Insurrection (but not as good as all TOS movies except for V). I think the "even number theory" got people's hopes very high ... too high. And the plot had a feeling of similarity to other Trek stories (I've heard many compare the Picard/Shinzon conflict with Kirk/Khaan, both with personalities of the bad-guys and using the "planet-killer weapon on the ship" as a plot-device). Hard-core Trekkies probably didn't like the new elements that were added to the Romulans back-story. As a stand-alone sci-fi action movie, its really not bad though. I'm not surprised at all to hear that non-trekkies like it (since they didn't come in with baggage and expectations). It's a little unfair that Nemesis will get pegged historically as the "franchise killer" (at least for the movies).
Old 02-24-07, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brainee
It's a little unfair that Nemesis will get pegged historically as the "franchise killer" (at least for the movies).
Hopefully we'll get at least one more movie.
Old 02-24-07, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Generations is definitely a movie for fans only, and Insurrection and Nemesis are garbage.
Still, both Generations and Nemesis are important chapters in the the history of the Star Trek universe. Even Insurrection has a small plot thread that would be expanded on in Nemesis.

The only Star Trek film that is truly disposable is The Final Frontier.
Old 02-24-07, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian Whitcombe
The only Star Trek film that is truly disposable is The Final Frontier.
I don't know. In V, I think the character development arc of Mr. Spock has its ultimate moments.
Old 02-24-07, 08:49 PM
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Honestly, the scenes in V where the trio are around the campfire, and where they are forced to face their pain are actually pretty good scenes. They're definitely moments in the movie that succeed in spite of the rest of the movie.
Old 03-04-07, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Giantrobo
And you have to watch DS9 to figure out why the 60's TV Klingons look so different from Klingons in the movies and the ones on all the recent Trek Series.
actually, you have to watch Enterprise
in ds9 they say that klingons don't talk about it
Old 03-04-07, 02:08 AM
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Nemesis wasn't really that bad, it just was the worst timing on the planet when it came out that kept it from making more money. Its in the top half of films you ask me, well certainly not the worst. The timing of the release was down right retarded. It was released what a whole 3-5 days before a rings movie lol I mean cmon on who did they think they were kidding.

This new one coming I have zero interest in period. It's like having all this cool tech and stuff to watch them play with , then taking it all away. I mean really is the western really that popular these days. Another complete blunder you ask me. Hey lets make a movie we've talked about for decades, and in all that time they still cant figure out no one wants to see it.
Old 03-04-07, 07:00 AM
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Some of the Next Generation movies were ok, but the problem with them was that they started the movies only months after the TV series ended. There was not much difference special effects wise or with character development between the series and the movies. It's almost like watching the tv show on a really big screen. With the original series thare's a huge difference with the characters and the special effects from the tv series to the movies.
Old 03-05-07, 12:47 AM
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Everyone is voting for the the worst NG movie, but my vote goes for the best NG movie and one of the time ST movies:

Star Trek "First Contact"

Great action, SFX, characters, drama, SciFi...
Old 03-05-07, 11:32 AM
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Star Treak 3 can be considered the best of the bad ST films or the worst of the good ST films
Old 03-05-07, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron_Giant
Everyone is voting for the the worst NG movie, but my vote goes for the best NG movie and one of the time ST movies:

Star Trek "First Contact"

Great action, SFX, characters, drama, SciFi...
While First Contact is a favorite of mine also, I thought I read somewhere that the trekoids didn't like it for technical reasons:
Spoiler:
There was no mention of Cochran's ship having inertial dampeners in it, meaning that the occupants (and ship) would have been smashed into atoms when it went to warp speed. Oh well...
Not being a trekoid, that never would have occurred to me.

They also didn't like the idea of the Borg queen, since it violates the whole collective nature of the Borg that had been set up in the TNG series.
Old 03-05-07, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lizard
Spoiler:
There was no mention of Cochran's ship having inertial dampeners in it, meaning that the occupants (and ship) would have been smashed into atoms when it went to warp speed. Oh well...
Lightspeed travel is possible without inertial dampeners.
Old 03-05-07, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Molotov
Lightspeed travel is possible without inertial dampeners.
Via slow, gradual buildup. Instantaneous "snapping" into warp speed as shown in Trek would indeed cause smears on the back walls.

If you need an explanation, I would say that Riker and LaForge slipped an inertial dampener in while Cochrane was not looking.

If you are wondering why I am typing like Data talks, my apostrophe key is messing up.
Old 03-05-07, 07:08 PM
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Okay, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I've been a Trek fan for 20+ years now. I still have yet to see every TOS episode (including TAS in that). I've seen all of TNG. Haven't seen every episode of DS9, although most. Seen perhaps 35% of Voyager - picked back up in season 7. At least that appeared to end strong, but I still call schnanigans on the ending. I did watch all of Enterprise - shame it was cancelled as it had the most potential out of any series since TOS.

Reading that I probably don't sound like a real fan. Heh... However, I do have the luxury of looking back and commenting with my current tastes in TV/movies, which will hopefully serve you here - although you haven't said what you watch today.

TOS - A bit dated for me with the sets and some of the slower stories. However, having said that it contains my favorite Star Trek episode of all. City on the Edge of Forever - instant classic. DVD Status - Only CotEF owned. No seasons owned.

TNG - This was really my true introduction to the franchise. Some really great epsidoes - specifically seasons 3-6. However, some episodes were slow and boring ala TOS. However, I think they did a good job later in the series by brining back some of the characters that resonated with the fans early on. DVD Status - No seasons owned.

DS9 - I started to watch this, and it was definitely good. Only problem for me was syndication and the time slots it was juggled around in. That's really what kept me from seeing all of this. Not sure I was keen on the way it ended. However, I think it actually is the best Trek series at developing 3D characters. DVD Status - No seasons owned.

Voyager - Ermm....yeah. Good concept. Poor execution. Most overused chracter; check. The Doctor - but really, what other choice did they have?... Most underused character; check. Tom - perhaps the character fleshed out the most, but left to wither... Worst captain; check. Who knows though, maybe we were lucky since we didn't end up with Frenchie. DVD Status - No seasons owned.

Enterprise - As I said I think this had a lot of potential. Honestly don't think it's worth your while to watch unless you get through at least most of TOS and TNG. You actually wouldn't get a lot of reference if you didn't bother to watch those first. I think I was most annoyed with Archer in this. I think his character was given a great backstory, but as much as I like Scott Bakula I think the writing and execution together brought his character down greatly. DVD Status - No seasons owned.

Movies: I'll keep this short.

TOS Movies: If you do decide to watch most of TOS first, then start with ST:TMP. Otherwise go right into TWOK. I do not believe you need to watch Space Seed prior to watching this. It may help, but I don't think it is required. Keep going through SFS, TVH, TFF and UDC. You can skip TFF as somebody else mentioned, but I think it is generally dogged more than it deserves. Sure there are some bad parts, but overall it has that sense of awe that a lot of the others lack.

TNG Movies: Definitely give Generations and FC a watch. Honestly I wouldn't be bothered to watch the other 2. Some really good music came out of 9 and 10 had some cool...effects?

DVD Status - 2,4,6 owned (and sold). 1-9 Special Editions owned.

Honestlly the more I think about it the less I'm inclined to ever buy any of the series as sets. There are too episodic for my tastes - as they have matured with what I call tv evolution. Just in the same sense that I enjoy certain 80s fanfare - Knight Rider, A-Team, McGyver etc. - I enjoy at least portions of all Trek series and will certainly stop and watch on reruns, but I think it would be too much time and effort to sit down and watch through everything again in order. Mind you the key word there is again. Based on what I said above I think it's worth your effort to figure out what you want to watch and see that, but then again it is your first time through. I would rent if you do have that option though.

Hope this helps although I think it went well beyond the scope of your original question.
Old 03-05-07, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian Whitcombe
No. Star Trek III is the integral second part of the trilogy that is Star Trek II, III and IV. Besides, the movie is also the significant exception when it comes to the "odd-numbered curse".

Hell, it's probably my second-favourite TOS film.
I like 3 alittle better now but I thought it was horrible after seeing it. It un did everything the 2nd one did which I didn't care for and the plot decisions they made with some of the secondary characters
Spoiler:
David being killed and Savik being underused
just brought it down a couple notches for me.

I would watch some of the series before watching the Original cast movies. You would get to know the characters before going to the movies.
The Next Gen movies would also be hightened by watching the series although I don't think those movies are as good, that is, except for First Contact.

I did watch all of Enterprise - shame it was cancelled as it had the most potential out of any series since TOS.

Last edited by riley_dude; 03-05-07 at 11:31 PM.
Old 03-05-07, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by milo bloom
Via slow, gradual buildup. Instantaneous "snapping" into warp speed as shown in Trek would indeed cause smears on the back walls.

If you need an explanation, I would say that Riker and LaForge slipped an inertial dampener in while Cochrane was not looking.

If you are wondering why I am typing like Data talks, my apostrophe key is messing up.
*spews cola* That's what I get drinking and looking at forums this late. Keeping semi on-topic, I pretend Nemesis exists in an alternative universe and go on my merry way. ^^
Old 04-21-07, 03:37 AM
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Original poster here. I have now watched about 12 episodes from the original series, including Space Seed with Khan. They were ok, but I think I would have liked them a lot better had I watched them 20 years ago. They just seem a little too cheesy now.

I have watched the first two movies also. Even though the first movie is supposedly one of the worst, I actually liked it more than the original series. Of course, Wrath of Khan was much better than the first movie. I plan to watch all the rest of the movies, and maybe a few episodes of the Next Generation series.

I have a few questions about Wrath of Khan:

1) Why does everyone call Saavik (the female Vulcan) Mister? I thought I was hearing it wrong, but I turned on the subtitles and it does say Mr. Saavik.

2) Before getting into the movie, I knew that Spock died. In The Cable Guy with Jim Carrey, during the Medieval Times scene Carrey compares his and Matthew Broderick's battle to Kirk's and Spock's battle to the death. I always thought that Kirk killed Spock in the movie, so it surprised me when this didn't happen. What was Jim Carrey talking about then?
Old 04-21-07, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by taffer
Original poster here. I have now watched about 12 episodes from the original series, including Space Seed with Khan. They were ok, but I think I would have liked them a lot better had I watched them 20 years ago. They just seem a little too cheesy now.

I have watched the first two movies also. Even though the first movie is supposedly one of the worst, I actually liked it more than the original series. Of course, Wrath of Khan was much better than the first movie. I plan to watch all the rest of the movies, and maybe a few episodes of the Next Generation series.

I have a few questions about Wrath of Khan:

1) Why does everyone call Saavik (the female Vulcan) Mister? I thought I was hearing it wrong, but I turned on the subtitles and it does say Mr. Saavik.

2) Before getting into the movie, I knew that Spock died. In The Cable Guy with Jim Carrey, during the Medieval Times scene Carrey compares his and Matthew Broderick's battle to Kirk's and Spock's battle to the death. I always thought that Kirk killed Spock in the movie, so it surprised me when this didn't happen. What was Jim Carrey talking about then?
For #2, it's about the Original Series episode "Amok Time".

There is some continuity in the movies and the series. But don't think too hard about it.
Old 04-21-07, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by taffer
Original poster here. I have now watched about 12 episodes from the original series, including Space Seed with Khan. They were ok, but I think I would have liked them a lot better had I watched them 20 years ago. They just seem a little too cheesy now.
"Cheesy" is TOS (The Original Series) in a nutshell and why it was one of the most popular shows in syndication for decades. The shows were more fun when they were originally broadcast (yes, I used to watch them then and that means I am old). TV and movie sci-fi has come a long way since the mid sixties.
I have watched the first two movies also. Even though the first movie is supposedly one of the worst, I actually liked it more than the original series. Of course, Wrath of Khan was much better than the first movie. I plan to watch all the rest of the movies, and maybe a few episodes of the Next Generation series.
I watched the first movie when it came out on DVD thinking I would like the Director's cut better than when I first saw it in the theater. No such luck. I still think it is one of the more boring movies I have ever seen and I promptly sold the DVD.

My favorite of the TV series was Deep Space Nine; it is the only one of the series I have on DVD. But that is not a popular opinion here at DVD Talk, from what I have seen. I like DS9 because it has multi-year long story arcs, the characters grow and develop, the cultures and politics of the alien races are explored in depth, and so forth, as opposed to TOS and The Next Generation, which are primarily composed of stand-alone episodes. Others have pointed out that DS9 is derivative of Babylon 5 (which I think is outstanding and highly recommend) and I would agree with that. But the similarities just help DS9 to be better. I think that it is necessary to have seen the TNG series before seeing DS9 because several of the characters are the same, as well as most of the alien races around which the series is focused.
I have a few questions about Wrath of Khan:

1) Why does everyone call Saavik (the female Vulcan) Mister? I thought I was hearing it wrong, but I turned on the subtitles and it does say Mr. Saavik...
My take on this is that it is naval tradition to refer to officers as "Mister" and even a woman is referred to as "midshipman", for example. I don't know what the protocol is in the US Navy now that female officers are common. Sci-fi writers have fun with this gender theme: David Weber in his Honor Harrington series (think "Horatio Hornblower in space", with the kick-ass lead character being a woman) has all his female characters refer to unknown ship's captains as "she" and all male characters refer to unknown ship's captains as "he". It's not explained but, rather, just the accepted gender protocol of the time.

Last edited by lizard; 04-21-07 at 10:47 AM.
Old 04-22-07, 10:56 PM
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It's not absolutely necessary to watch the TV shows to understand the movies. Obviously, it'll help as the fictional history of Star Trek (who's who in the hierarchy, good guys, bad guys, intergalactic politics, etc.) is a big part of what made it the cultural touchstone it is. To this day, you'll still find debates on message boards whether the Enterprise could defeat a Romulan Warbird or the state of the Cardassian Union after the Dominion War. It's geeky but it's fun!

So I'd recommend watching all ten films in order. There's good ones, bad ones, and mediocre ones. After watching all ten and if you've decided you liked what you saw, jump into the five TV series.

The Original Series (TOS) - Kirk, Spock, Bones. Lots of miniskirts and cheesy aliens. Personally, I find this series hard to watch because I find it so dated and way before my time. But that's just me.

The Next Generation (TNG) - This turned me on to Trek. The first two seasons were horrible but it really improved a lot after that. Patrick Stewart is perfect as Captain Picard and the supporting cast is pretty damn good too. The most popular of the Trek series and pretty easy to watch as most of the episodes are self-contained.

Deep Space Nine (DS9) - My absolute favourite of the all the Treks. Also the hardest to watch as it became increasingly serialized as the seasons passed. Plot points from season 1 would be vital in season 7 and so on. It was also the darkest of the Trek series, being the first Trek series to deal with a long-term interstellar war and the effects that it would have on its characters. Little wonder that one of the head honchos from DS9 would create the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica. Both of these series share a lot in their themes.

Voyager (VOY) - IMO, the beginning of the end for Trek. The character of Seven was brilliant, as was the actress who played her, but the series as a whole just came off as a TNG retread for me. It also abandoned much of its original premise (a lone ship scarce on resources, desperately struggling to make its way home on the other side of the galaxy).

Enterprise (ENT) - The newest series but set before TOS. This was the only Trek series I could not watch all the way through. I think I jumped ship sometime in season 2. Apparently, a lot of people did as the series was cancelled after four seasons, making it the only modern Trek show not to last seven seasons. From what I heard, it got a lot better in its last season. The series finale is an abomination, though.
Old 04-23-07, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by taffer
1) Why does everyone call Saavik (the female Vulcan) Mister? I thought I was hearing it wrong, but I turned on the subtitles and it does say Mr. Saavik.
I always felt that it was to underline that in the future (present-day Trek time), gender distinctions have become unnecessary. Everyone is treated on an equal basis, and so the term "Mr." is now unisexual. They referenced it on the first episode of Voyager I think too, when someone addressed the captain as "Sir", but she said she didn't care for it.
Old 04-23-07, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by milo bloom
Via slow, gradual buildup. Instantaneous "snapping" into warp speed as shown in Trek would indeed cause smears on the back walls.

If you need an explanation, I would say that Riker and LaForge slipped an inertial dampener in while Cochrane was not looking.

If you are wondering why I am typing like Data talks, my apostrophe key is messing up.
i thought they had seatbelts, or that the way the warp field works is that gravity is normal inside it and you can still accelerate fast
Old 04-24-07, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
i thought they had seatbelts, or that the way the warp field works is that gravity is normal inside it and you can still accelerate fast
Not in the Trek-verse at least. It's always been pretty much accepted that they're still subject to inertial forces. That's why they sometimes show the crew being knocked around, it's the internal gravity not able to keep up with the ship's movement. You never see the crew floating around weightless because the computers are programmed to keep the gravity going to the very end, presumably thinking that it will be easier for the crew to fix other damage if they can at least walk normally. (that and it's too expensive to film zero-g)


And seatbelts would have done nothing during warp, those were merely for the launch via the chemical propellant stage. Without inertial dampeners, even going to warp one would reduce the crew to smears on the back walls.

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