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-   -   The illusionist (merged) (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/movie-talk/473984-illusionist-merged.html)

exm 10-29-06 10:53 AM

Let's give this one a bump. Saw it last night and loved it. Great story & acting.

ShaunoftheDead 01-10-07 08:57 AM

The Illusionist? (slight spoilers)
 
I just saw this and liked it ok
Spoiler:
and think the ambiguous ending was a little pat and too cut and dryly explained.

What I want to know is, there wasn't any explanation given for how he performed the illusions, especially the apparitions.

Is there any physical way those can be performed and was it explained anywhere?



[Edited to add spoiler tags, just in case. D-]

baracine 01-10-07 09:01 AM

It's out on DVD. I liked the atmosphere, I liked the colours and photography. I liked the art direction. I liked the story-telling. I liked the fictitious universe. (There never was a Crown Prince of Austria named Leopold in that era, by the way, although there was a suicidal Prince Rudolf he seems modeled on.) I was captivated. There is not a single misstep in the whole story. Edward Norton coasts on his good looks and elegance but that's part of the charm of this film. A very finely crafted work of art from a young director who can only go far.

I even liked it in spite of Philip Glass's score. Mr. Glass is a hack whose "music" gives me a rash but he is getting very good lately at recycling those same two ot three simplistic chords for mysterious effect.

I can't wait to see The Prestige for comparison purposes.

baracine 01-10-07 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by ShaunoftheDead
I just saw this and liked it ok
Spoiler:
and think the ambiguous ending was a little pat and too cut and dryly explained.

What I want to know is, there wasn't any explanation given for how he performed the illusions, especially the apparitions.

Is there any physical way those can be performed and was it explained anywhere?



[Edited to add spoiler tags, just in case. D-]

You know we will get witch-hunted if we go on with this second thread on the same film but my answer is...

Spoiler:
Since the orange tree trick appears (in the film) to have had a very complicated mechanical explanation, we must assume that all the other tricks were the result of careful planning and hard work and "before their time" innovations. The fact that the magician is surrounded by a legend that he may have learned mystical tricks from mysterious otherworldly strangers and that he has lived in "the Orient" is just so much second-hand window dressing designed to keep you wonderstruck all through the film and believe in the supernatural long enough for the hero to effect his very real, very carefully-planned and very practical getaway. He does everything he does in order to elope with a woman of flesh-and-blood after all, not a ghost.

Also note that the magician fires his manager and replaces him with a crew of Chinese stagehands in order to keep his methods secret, not only from the public but also from any pressure coming from the police to divulge them. He trusts the manager with his money but not with his secrets.

The film's story also exploits the myth and mystery surrounding famous stage magicians of the XIXth century whose best tricks have been kept secret for generations by the magician's oath and never publicly revealed , some of which still seem impossible today, like one magician, David Douglas Home (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Dunglas_Home ), who was reputed to have levitated out of a third-storey window and flown back in through another window in front of at least a hundred witnesses who never asked for their money back.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C01209...historical.jpg

RichC2 01-10-07 09:21 AM

Entertaining. I liked the darkness of The Prestige, but the Illusionist had a better connected (tho predictable... they really did foreshadow the hell out of it, starting 10 minutes into the thing) conclusion.

Nuff 01-10-07 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by ShaunoftheDead
I just saw this and liked it ok
Spoiler:
and think the ambiguous ending was a little pat and too cut and dryly explained.
...

Hmm I came away with a different impression.
Spoiler:
I did not find the ending ambiguous at all, what was ambiguous about it to you? They revealed that his magic was tricks not real magic. The two lovers planned the whole thing and set the prince up. They both got away scott free. What's left to be ambiguous about?

baracine 01-10-07 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by Nuff
Hmm I came away with a different impression.
Spoiler:
I did not find the ending ambiguous at all, what was ambiguous about it to you? They revealed that his magic was tricks not real magic. The two lovers planned the whole thing and set the prince up. They both got away scott free. What's left to be ambiguous about?


I think what ShaunoftheDead meant was that the tricks looked so supernatural, he wondered if they were or if there could be a rational explanation for them. By saying
Spoiler:
"they were not real magic", you are actually saying yourself that a successful stage trick is "false magic" but that supernatural manifestations are "real magic".
I don't think professional magicians would agree with that definition. But the film succeeds in blurring the line between the two concepts.

lxl 01-10-07 10:49 PM

I am a little disappointed.

Spoiler:

I don't really think the ending is ambiguous, it's also too predictable.

I don't quite like what the illusionist and the girl did to the prince. The prince was not a great man, but he certainly did not deserve that.

Daytripper 01-11-07 12:11 AM


Originally Posted by lxl
I am a little disappointed.

Spoiler:

I don't really think the ending is ambiguous, it's also too predictable.

I don't quite like what the illusionist and the girl did to the prince. The prince was not a great man, but he certainly did not deserve that.

Didn't the police inspector say to someone (about the Prince) "He will kill her, he's done it before". I just watched it for the second time and I'm pretty sure he did. If that's the case, the Prince deserved what he got. Especially if he got away with it. I know for a fact it was told he beat his women.

baracine 01-11-07 08:20 AM

The Prince being all-powerful and practically immune from prosecution besides being a very bad, devious and self-centered person
Spoiler:
had it coming
. And I couldn't have foreseen the ending. I was too "entranced".

Nuff 01-11-07 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by baracine
...But the film succeeds in blurring the line between the two concepts.

That's what I disagreed with. The ending removed any blur between the two and made it clear (IMO).

baracine 01-11-07 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by Nuff
That's what I disagreed with. The ending removed any blur between the two and made it clear (IMO).

The fact is no illusionist, even today, could create this kind of illusion on stage so the viewer may be forgiven for believing in the supernatural for at least that part of the film.

matrixrok9 01-15-07 07:15 PM

Movie was okay. First half was really good, 2nd has was predictable and bland.

Spoiler:

Use of CG in the magic tricks ruined the movie because it takes you out of the movie. Plus when I saw the CG I thought the filmmakers were going to explain what Norton was using, but evidently was suppose to be "real". I can't recommend a movie that is about practical magic yet uses CG. Just defeats the whole purpose of the film.

fmian 01-16-07 01:39 AM

When Giamatti was going through Nortons shack at the end I noticed
Spoiler:
a model head that looked like that of the little boy who walked through the theater as a ghost. this would indicate that Norton was using dummies or prosthetics as part of his ghost illusions.

That may go some way towards explaining the magic he was doing.

B.A. 01-16-07 09:31 PM

Just watched this tonight - not a bad flick. Predictable, but good none-the-less. I really enjoyed Norton and Giamatti (as always).

Brent_MN 01-16-07 09:59 PM

I didn't find it predictable at all. :shrug:

Actually, I couldn't believe it.

Setzer 01-24-07 11:30 AM

I watched this for the first time last night. Loved it. Makes me wish I would have seen it in theaters! Norton and Giamatti gave outstanding performances. This is easily one of my top films of '06.

QuePaso 07-09-07 09:42 AM

I just watched this. I really enjoyed it and i thought the way it went down was awesome. Nortons character was well devised and
Spoiler:
I really liked the magic he used and even i doubted if it was fake or not with the ghosts. And those model heads in his house really showed theres more to it then simply amazing spiritual powers. I mostly thought that norton was setting up the prince to pay for killing her, but the ending with her being alive even surprised me.


Overall, very nice flick and a enjoyable time.

movielib 07-09-07 10:03 AM

I just watched it a second time with a bunch of my wife's relatives who were visiting. They have widely varying tastes and it was one of the few movies I've shown them that every one of them liked. And while I did guess the "twist" very early when I first saw it in the theater, none of them did. Not a great film but good and enjoyable on a repeat viewing even knowing everything.

Spoiler:

I didn't mind that, while it was obvious the film was saying everything Eisenstein did was a trick, it was equally obvious what he did was too good to have been so. Dramatic license.

TheMovieman 07-09-07 10:41 AM

In his commentary Neil Burger said
Spoiler:
the ending was how Giamatti's character thought how the whole thing played out. That's why when we see Norton meeting Biel, it looks hazy. IIRC, he said it was possible Norton just disappeared and went to live alone somewhere in the countryside.


Not saying I agree with it, but that's how he interpreted and (I guess) filmed it.

Jack Straw 09-03-07 01:06 AM

Can someone explain to me how
Spoiler:
a doctor and chief inspector who supposedly weren't in on the "trick" examined a body with an apparent slit throat who was really still alive, and both found no pulse or other evidence indicating this woman was faking? Lame.

fmian 09-03-07 03:55 AM


Originally Posted by Jack Straw
Can someone explain to me how
Spoiler:
a doctor and chief inspector who supposedly weren't in on the "trick" examined a body with an apparent slit throat who was really still alive, and both found no pulse or other evidence indicating this woman was faking? Lame.

Spoiler:
The family doctor was in on it, and shooed away anyone else who tried to get a close look at the body.

The Antipodean 09-03-07 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by Jack Straw
Can someone explain to me how
Spoiler:
a doctor and chief inspector who supposedly weren't in on the "trick" examined a body with an apparent slit throat who was really still alive, and both found no pulse or other evidence indicating this woman was faking? Lame.

They made it pretty clear at the end that
Spoiler:
the doctor was in on it
.

Red Dog 10-15-07 01:39 PM

Just watched it. Pretty good. I really like Giamatti.


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