PatD

Probably the most impassioned defense of "Superman Returns":

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OutRun2

How in the world can anyone prefer SR to MoS? MoS was a KILLER Superman film! It garnered tons of praise, has very high reviews and deservedly so. It shits all over Returns from a large skyscraper. Just Shannon's portrayal of Zodd alone makes it a more enjoyable film. Is it as good as the first three Donna films? No, but for a comic book movie made in the last decade it's way up there, bested only by the Nolan's Batman films.

Deadman31

Superman returns was way too long and all the water made me have to pee.

Thrush

Apparently a lot of people. On Rotten tomatoes Returns got a 76% from critics. MOS got 56%.

They both stink, just for different reasons. MOS basically got everything wrong except for destruction porn.

Spiderbite

"Can't tell if serious internet meme" posted here.

Hokeyboy

I preferred MoS to SR. Not a perfect movie but it blew Singer's clone stalker mopefest out of the water.

Solid Snake

I like MoS more just cuz it decided to do something different instead of aping Donner to failure.

Jesus. And people still wanted Williams' theme for MoS.

Paul_SD

the amount plagiarism in Returns is reprehensible to me.

MOS, for all it's many faults, is at least it's own thing. As misguided as that may be.

Sonic

I strongly dislike the pacing of MOS but I hate the pacing more in SR.

Action wise MOS blows SR to oblivion. SR is a boring movie Singer really blew it because he put more focus on Superman's love life along with the kid. Had he kept things more into perspective (action, punching, kicking ass not being a crying pussy getting stabbed and just looking weak), it would have been a good movie. I'm also tired of the Superman theme.

TheMovieman

Also, Luthor's plan was just dumb. The "real estate" he was making was absolutely worthless as nothing could be built or grown on it.

Michael Corvin

Still want.

One of the biggest complaints levied against MoS is the tone. William's theme would certainly lighten the whole affair. Having said that, after seeing the film multiple times now, it would definitely be out of place. However if or when Supes gains the boy scout persona and becomes a beacon of hope for humanity, I think it would fit right in.

Solid Snake

Let it go.

I love the theme. But let it fucking go. These films have to stand on their own. Also I don't think the theme fits well at all w/ the filmmaking for it. I'm not sure how it worked for Donner but either the film was first or the music was. And everything else just just built after to accomodate, you know what I mean. Snyder's style doesn't jive w/ the theme.

Michael Corvin

kgrogers1979

His real estate plan in the original Donner movie was freaking dumb too. All of his land would have been blanketed by radioactive fallout from the nuclear missile.

Luthor has always been rather dumb in these movies.

Paul_SD

The tone of the Metropolis act in the first film is tongue in cheek- or more specifically, whimsically exaggerated. Luthor's scheme is a (silver age style) comic book scheme that works in that tone.

At least it worked beautifully for me as a kid, and still does.

It also helps to understand the context in which the film was made. Filming while SW was just finishing up post production, there was not a template to follow the way there is now.
What people complain about now as 'stupid' plot points are part of a stylistically holistic approach to the material.

You may not like it. But comparing it to modern superhero movies, that benefit from the post modern interpretations laid out in the comic books twenty+ yrs earlier, seems a little short sighted.

gryffinmaster

Still enjoyed Returns when I revisited it a few years back and prefer it to Man of Steel, but I certainly don't feel as strongly about it as I apparently did nearly ten years ago. The dropoff from first to second viewing was fairly drastic (third time through was about the same as the second).

Solid Snake

Superman The Movie. That film is pretty perfect. Seems hokey now but people never seen to accept that when it was made. They had a different environment for the industry and a different Supes too.

Saying that... I'd never want it back cuz it doesn't age well in a modern setting. I don't want dopey Clark, Stupid Bitch Lois, cheesy as fuck Lex, and this wildly blind and naive view of the world's reaction to something like Supes. Which is what MoS, in ideology, got so much right w/ what it did. Unfortunately... you've poor storytelling w/ Goyer and Snyder. Not exactly subtle or having depth for filmmakers.

kgrogers1979

I accept that Superman: The Movie was a product of the 70s. I actually did love the movie when I was a kid. However, like you say, it has not aged well at all, and I find it unwatchable now. Some movies age well, and some movies don't age well. There are plenty of 70s movies that have aged well that I still love, like Star Wars, Rocky, Jaws, The Godfather, Close Encounters, etc. Superman however is not one that I still enjoy today.

Solid Snake

You can say that but the quality still holds though. Aspects of the culture always have fading value within film. Things like Rocky, Jaws, Godfather, etc. work cuz those are films that they built a world where the isolated incident can exist within a cultural view. It was very much the world of the time. Proper level of romanticism and cynicism for them.

SW mostly works too aside from some hokey things about it. It's a wildly white man's world for example. Only to be offset by one of the coolest black motherfuckers ever in ESB. And then to only to be pushed down by having some crusty ass white man being body of James Earl Jones' voice. I'm still pissed about that shit. I seriously thought it was JEJ the whole way through till I saw RoTJ's ending as a kid. Fucking goddamn shame.

It's a pick and choose kind of thing.

Mike86

I think the Reeve films have aged and in many ways are very cheesy now but honestly I've grown to appreciate them a lot more the more that I watch them. They're over the top and very much products of their time but Reeve was absolutely perfect as Clark/Superman in my opinion. He feels like a true hero and you want him to save the day which I can't say for Cavill. I think Cavill is alright look wise but he doesn't have that same natural heroic charm to him and seems very flat. Maybe its partly what he had to work with in Man of Steel though.

I realize Man of Steel is a better modern take on the character and how people would perceive him, but the film isn't that great. There are some parts I really like such as the opening on Krypton and the flashback scenes are well done for the most part. It does very much become a film that goes too hard for action though with the fights in Smallville and Metropolis.

Sonic

The helicopter save Lois scene is still better than any heroic scene in any Superman movie to date. MOS had no inspiring scenes that gave goosebumps. Even Superman Returns airplane scene pales in comparison.

Hazel Motes

The best film adaptation of Superman ever is still the teaser to this film.

OutRun2

LOL @ everyone saying the original Donnar Superman hasn't aged well. You guys are insane. Donnar's films have aged EXTREMELY well like fine wine, and they are *flawless*!!! Hell, even Superman III shits all over any comic book movie made in the last 20 years.

Spiderbite

Why? The music is iconic. It IS Superman.

They haven't let go of the James Bond theme. It's been updated, changed, manipulated, etc. but it still is around and is important to the character. It IS James Bond. They even included a few seconds of it in the newest trailer and it makes you want to cheer when you hear it.

Remember when they did Rocky IV without the Rocky theme? It just sucked. Wasn't Rocky.

The Superman theme is the most heroic music created. I can't think of any theme that still gives me goosebumps or brings a tear to my eye every time I hear it (well, maybe Somewhere In Time).

E Unit

I always find it funny that so many people say it hasn't aged well, yet acknowledge it is a classic. One way or another, I think it's clear that aged or not, Donner's Supeman will always be viewed as a classic. Snyder's version? Anything but.