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Underworld: Rise of the Lycans (2009) [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

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Underworld: Rise of the Lycans (2009) [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Old 01-25-09, 02:25 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

I had to do a double-take when I realized it was Michael Sheen as Lucian because after seeing him in "Frost/Nixon" this was quite a jolt, but it's sort of fun to see good actors in these types of fantastical franchises, as "Underworld" enjoys exploring supernatural races, vampires and werewolves. Bill Nighy does what he can with the script, totally menacing when he needs to be.

Didn't much like the direction, plus the special effects looks a little weak when it came to the werewolves. The battle scenes were average as well. The story needed some more surprises, I guess, as I wasn't too enthrall with this prequel and it's paint-by-numbers storytelling.

But if you're fan of the Underworld films, it's worth a matinee viewing.

I give it 2.5 stars, or a grade of C+.
Old 01-25-09, 06:18 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Rise of the Lycans finished #2 at the box office this weekend with $20,700,000 (Production Budget: $35 million).
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/
Old 01-25-09, 07:34 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

I enjoyed this much more than Evolution, which seemed so pared down that it was boring. That's why I liked the first, so many characters, so much intrigue.

I loved Michael Sheen as usual and being able to see in-depth the love story which was so essential to the Underworld lore was great. Did I mention how hot Micheal Sheen was and very commanding.

Oh, the continuity in certain scenes was awesome.
Old 01-25-09, 07:36 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
No problem.



Yup, that be it. Thanks. I need to go see this again. I actually watched Underworld and Underworld: Evolution back-to-back right before I went to see it.



Spoiler:
Viktor said that Amelia and Markus were asleep so this takes place after the prologue of Underworld: Evolution. This was also mentioned in one of the many online articles before the film's release.

I also recall that at one point during this film (don't remember exactly when), Lucian walked passed what looked like a wall painting of William's prison.

It would have been awesome had Lucian met William!

But after this movie, I'm more pissed than ever that Lucian was killed by a lameass like Kraven! I actually wish that in a fourth film Lucian would pull a Michael, a'la Underworld: Evolution but I know that wouldn't likely happen.

I agree. I was discussing with my friend how he could be in yet another sequel...just hoping, but yeah.
Old 01-26-09, 10:41 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

why does amelia get killed so easily when the other 2 elders, viktor and markus are almost impossible to kill? I think the sequel to ROTL needs the introduction of michael. his deal with lucian and how viktor left him with the keys to the coven. I agree that nighy and sheen can carry an underworld movie but to put it over the top they need a better developed story. ROTL was good but it was too simple. maybe some attention to other vampire covenants around the world. as for the beckensale and speedman underworld's, they can't go nowhere else. they were going to bring both species together.
Old 01-26-09, 11:06 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

You mean the introduction of, Kraven. Right? Cos Michael's intro was in Underworld. But, yeah, I was wondering where that sniveling prick was all through this movie. I figure in a sequel they'll explain how he wormed his way into Viktor's service and show some conflict between him and Tanis. Probably Kraven played a part in convincing Viktor to have Tanis exiled.

I disagree on youre assesment regarding Selene and Michael. Although they represent the future of both species (Selene an uber-Vampire with Corvinus' blood flowing through her veins and Michael being the first Lycan/Vampire hybrid), the last time we saw the Lycans (Underworld) and Selene's narration (Underworld: Evolution) made it seem as if they were disliked by both camps. Perhaps some might join them but I doubt Vampires and Lycans will join hands in a circle around a campfire, singing songs, and eating smores.

And I believe around the time this film takes place there were no other Covens. I believe all the other Covens are formed by whatever Vampires managed to escape the Werewolf/Lycan assault on Viktor's castle.
Old 01-26-09, 11:43 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
You mean the introduction of, Kraven. Right? Cos Michael's intro was in Underworld. But, yeah, I was wondering where that sniveling prick was all through this movie. I figure in a sequel they'll explain how he wormed his way into Viktor's service and show some conflict between him and Tanis. Probably Kraven played a part in convincing Viktor to have Tanis exiled.

I disagree on youre assesment regarding Selene and Michael. Although they represent the future of both species (Selene an uber-Vampire with Corvinus' blood flowing through her veins and Michael being the first Lycan/Vampire hybrid), the last time we saw the Lycans (Underworld) and Selene's narration (Underworld: Evolution) made it seem as if they were disliked by both camps. Perhaps some might join them but I doubt Vampires and Lycans will join hands in a circle around a campfire, singing songs, and eating smores.

And I believe around the time this film takes place there were no other Covens. I believe all the other Covens are formed by whatever Vampires managed to escape the Werewolf/Lycan assault on Viktor's castle.
yeah, kraven is who i meant. I also meant later on in the story there has to be covens all over the world. never put all your fox's in one foxfole. like the vampires in blade. I always liked kraven, his death was too easy in evolution. he was practically on path to be an elder yet markus walked right through him.
Old 01-27-09, 12:12 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

I think he deserved to suffer more but there was no way he'd have proved a challenge for Markus. He was trying to kill all the elders whilst the two strongest (Viktor and Markus) slept and he had the weakest (Amelia who was still tougher than Kraven) dispatched by the Lycans. If Kraven were strong enough to fight any of them, he would have long ago.

Regarding your earlier question about Amelia's easy defeat versus Viktor's and Marcus' nigh-invincibility, I feel Amelia was a loayl servant of Viktor who was granted the rank of Elder due mainly to Viktor decreeing it to be so.

In Underworld: Evolution it's clear Markus (in his pre-Hybrid form) is weaker than Viktor. If he were the stronger, he would have slaughtered Viktor and his soldiers before they could have done further harm to William. Although Markus was the first, he was clearly not the strongest. Viktor was most likely a formidable man before the end of his days and that made him a formidable Vampire.

Now what made Markus a force to be reckoned with was when he mutated into a Hybrid. Had he known about that possibility, he would have most likely consumed Lycan blood ages ago in order to vanquish Viktor and take his blood (thus revealing the location of William's prison and the means to release him).

I just wish this film would have shown during the opening prologue how/why the Vampires first began to leapfrog through time. It's a curious concept and I'm sure it was reach some sort of uneasy truce with Markus.

Last edited by RocShemp; 01-27-09 at 12:25 AM.
Old 01-27-09, 06:15 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Wait...Marcus turned Viktor. He wasn't weaker.

Now, from the 2nd book UW:Blood Enemy and off the top of my head mind you, Viktor was a Warlord and had an army. Marcus turned him and then the army was turned. So they(the army) were all Loyal to Viktor. Marcus needed Viktor and his army to deal with William. That is why Marcus grudgingly followed Viktor even though he turned him. But also remember what Tanis told Selene about how Marcus made up a BS story that if he, being the Maker for Viktor and the rest, was killed...they would all die. So Viktor worked hard to keep Marcus safe believing this lie.

Again, in the 2nd book UW:Blood Enemy, Kraven was originally from Ireland. He was always an "ambitious" type.

The following wiki pages more or less mirror what is said in the books and movies.

Wiki for Viktor

Wiki for Kraven

Last edited by Giantrobo; 01-27-09 at 06:37 AM.
Old 01-27-09, 08:57 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

True but although the lie kept Markus safe, it wouldn't have worked for Viktor. All Markus need do was bite Viktor and kill all his soldiers to get his brother back if he were indeed stronger than Viktor.

In one of the special features of Underworld: Evolution it's mentioned that although Markus is the first he's not necessarily the strongest. Hence why he's so subservient to Viktor. Markus really didn't need Viktor (not alive, anyway) once William was imprisoned. The problem is that Viktor could have kicked Marku's ass any day of the week. Hence why Markus needed the lie about what would happen if he or William were killed. Viktor wasn't willing to test that theory.
Old 01-27-09, 09:31 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
True but although the lie kept Markus safe, it wouldn't have worked for Viktor. All Markus need do was bite Viktor and kill all his soldiers to get his brother back if he were indeed stronger than Viktor.

In one of the special features of Underworld: Evolution it's mentioned that although Markus is the first he's not necessarily the strongest. Hence why he's so subservient to Viktor. Markus really didn't need Viktor (not alive, anyway) once William was imprisoned. The problem is that Viktor could have kicked Marku's ass any day of the week. Hence why Markus needed the lie about what would happen if he or William were killed. Viktor wasn't willing to test that theory.

I'll have to see that feature when I get home. Is it on the UW:E DVD? I have a hard time buying the Viktor was in fact stronger than Marcus. Hell, Viktor was on his Deathbed when Marcus turned him.
Old 01-27-09, 10:03 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

I think we all know why Kraven wasn't featured in U3...because most people hated Shane Brolly's acting. I also believe that's why he got killed so quickly. Mind you, I liked the character, but that's the general feeling.
Old 01-27-09, 12:07 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
I'll have to see that feature when I get home. Is it on the UW:E DVD? I have a hard time buying the Viktor was in fact stronger than Marcus. Hell, Viktor was on his Deathbed when Marcus turned him.
Gimme a sec. I'm gonna check my DVD of Underworld: Evolution. I recall it was when Tony Curran was interviewed.
Old 01-27-09, 12:47 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Around 5 minutes into the first featurette (Bloodlines: From Script To Screen) Tony Curran mentions that Markus was the first but not necesarrily the most powerful since he brought Viktor to the fold who was already a powerful man in the area (suggesting his military might, of course). But he also goes on to mention that Viktor being older and more experienced is able to take advantage of his edge over Markus.

I think the way it works is that, although Viktor was indeed on his deathbed, being turned "rejuvinated" him in a sense and then added to his former might by means of his newfound Vampiric strength. Markus didn't seem to exude that sort of authority. I think the reason he felt the need to create his bluff was because he saw the corner he painted himself into when he turned Viktor. If not, as I mentioned before, it would have just been a matter of slaughtering all of Viktor's Coven (which Markus accomplished once he became a Hybrid) and draining Viktor's memories to learn how to find and free William.

Basically Markus was a naive (albeit powerful) child who inadvertantly created a less noble version of his father through Viktor.
Old 01-27-09, 02:23 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Around 5 minutes into the first featurette (Bloodlines: From Script To Screen) Tony Curran mentions that Markus was the first but not necesarrily the most powerful since he brought Viktor to the fold who was already a powerful man in the area (suggesting his military might, of course). But he also goes on to mention that Viktor being older and more experienced is able to take advantage of his edge over Markus.

I think the way it works is that, although Viktor was indeed on his deathbed, being turned "rejuvinated" him in a sense and then added to his former might by means of his newfound Vampiric strength. Markus didn't seem to exude that sort of authority. I think the reason he felt the need to create his bluff was because he saw the corner he painted himself into when he turned Viktor. If not, as I mentioned before, it would have just been a matter of slaughtering all of Viktor's Coven (which Markus accomplished once he became a Hybrid) and draining Viktor's memories to learn how to find and free William.

Basically Markus was a naive (albeit powerful) child who inadvertantly created a less noble version of his father through Viktor.

Ok, still not having seen this feature that makes more sense. Not that Viktor was PHYSICALLY more powerful, but that he had mental advantage in terms of his leadership and military experiences.

Plus, I've seen many stars in these featurettes running off at the mouth and not getting stuff quite right about the films they're in.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 01-27-09 at 02:34 PM.
Old 01-27-09, 02:45 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Yeah, I know. But it seems Tony Curran really got into the mythology of it all. In fact, the reason he gives that explanation was in reference to a time when the stunt crew were asking him why his character didn't simply kick Viktor's ass.

I dunno how true this is but, according to IMDB (hence why I'm uncertain of the veracity of the following), Tony Curran insisted to wear his fangs even when not shooting and insisted that his contract stipulate that he'd be allowed to keep them on at all times. That kinda reminds me of how Christian Bale apparently insisted that his dressing room be labeled Batman (or Bruce Wayne - I forget) instead of having his name on the door. These guys seem to live in the characters they portray.
Old 01-27-09, 03:11 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Not that Viktor was PHYSICALLY more powerful, but that he had mental advantage in terms of his leadership and military experiences.
Exactly. So if they had an arm wrestling match, Markus would easily win. But if they had a one on one duel, Viktor would beat the crap out of Markus due to sheer cunning and skill.
Old 01-27-09, 03:38 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Exactly. So if they had an arm wrestling match, Markus would easily win. But if they had a one on one duel, Viktor would beat the crap out of Markus due to sheer cunning and skill.
that how I interpret it as well. not even michael, as a hybrid was able to beat viktor. viktor takes the punishment until he outsmarts his opponent into victory. if these movies just had A-list writers on them I truly think they could be very special because the general outline of the story is appealing.
Old 01-27-09, 04:45 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Exactly. So if they had an arm wrestling match, Markus would easily win. But if they had a one on one duel, Viktor would beat the crap out of Markus due to sheer cunning and skill.

I hate doing this because I hate when it's done to me....However, you said:

Originally Posted by RocShemp

In Underworld: Evolution it's clear Markus (in his pre-Hybrid form) is weaker than Viktor. If he were the stronger, he would have slaughtered Viktor and his soldiers before they could have done further harm to William. Although Markus was the first, he was clearly not the strongest. Viktor was most likely a formidable man before the end of his days and that made him a formidable Vampire.
So initially this discussion was NOT about Marcus' lack of cunning, it was about his lack of Physical strength.
Old 01-27-09, 10:50 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Yeah, I misspoke there. I should never have said weaker but that's the best word that popped in my head. In fact disregard that post altogether. That's why you should never post with only 3 hours of sleep.

Basically, what I understood of Markus in Underworld: Evolution is that he has a "might makes right" mentality. Was he stronger than Viktor? Yes. Was he more powerful? No.

Viktor was the better fighter (just look at him go in Underworld and Underworld: Rise of the Lycans) and he had his army. Markus came across to me as a sloppy fighter. More of a brute than a skilled fighter. Plus, despite his being the first Vampire, you didn't really see anyone lining up to be his loyal servants. I doubt any of them could have killed him (not that Viktor would have allowed it anyway) but they sure could have subdued him. Which is why I think he backed down when Viktor captured William. Sure, he didn't want to risk further harm to William but if he could have taken all the Vampires on his own I think he would have.

Now once Markus became a Hybrid, his power increased exponentially and he simply slaughtered everything in his path with no fear whatsoever. Remember that although he knew of Kraven's deceit due to the Nazi Lycan's (I forgot his name but remember you said that in one of the books he was a Nazi scientist) blood memories, he had no way of knowing the fate of the Death Dealers or Viktor. At least not 'til he bit Kraven. He was like a wild unstoppable beast at that point. And he not once hesitated, when he found out Viktor was dead, to destroy Viktor's coven.

Last edited by RocShemp; 01-27-09 at 10:56 PM.
Old 01-27-09, 11:05 PM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

By the way, Giantrobo, how many books and comic books are there relating to the Underworld universe? I wanna read them to know more about the characters and backstory. Do any of them detail how/why they first devised their arrangement to have one Elder awake and two alseep? And do they address why Markus never conspired against Viktor?

In the second film, Tanis said Viktor never conspired against Markus because of the latters bluff. However, I don't understand why Markus never took out Viktor while he was asleep (like Kraven intended to do to him).
Old 01-28-09, 04:39 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Yeah, I misspoke there. I should never have said weaker but that's the best word that popped in my head. In fact disregard that post altogether. That's why you should never post with only 3 hours of sleep.
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to be an ass or anything.
Old 01-28-09, 04:49 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
By the way, Giantrobo, how many books and comic books are there relating to the Underworld universe? I wanna read them to know more about the characters and backstory. Do any of them detail how/why they first devised their arrangement to have one Elder awake and two alseep? And do they address why Markus never conspired against Viktor?
4 Books by Greg Cox. Blood Enemy is basically Lucian and Sonja's story told in flashback and it was written before the latest film. I read Blood Enemy but I'm not sure if the UW:RotL book is simply a movie adaptation, or a complete retelling/rehash of Blood Enemy since they both tell the same story. I love the UW Universe and Greg Cox is good with the books so I'll still pick up UW:Rotl eventually even if it is a rehash of Lucian's story.

I'm not sure how many UW comics are out there but they're out there. You can search amazon.com for those.



In the second film, Tanis said Viktor never conspired against Markus because of the latters bluff. However, I don't understand why Markus never took out Viktor while he was asleep (like Kraven intended to do to him).
Convoluted writing? Yeah I see where you're coming from. Depending on how you read things and see things in the films the Elders are pretty loyal and respectful of each other even with things like Marcus' lie to the others about killing him and Viktor's betrayal by locking up William.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 01-28-09 at 05:01 AM.
Old 01-28-09, 08:13 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

The Red in Tooth and Claw comics (three individual issues and later collected in Complete Underworld ISBN-13: 978-1600100574) and the Blood Enemy book are essentially worthless now from an official Underworld universe standpoint. I find this annoying because these stories may be better than what was presented in Rise of the Lycans.

The comics dealt with Raze's origin and Blood Enemy dealt with the Lucian/Sonja storyline. These are now considered canon or fan fiction, which is a real shame. I guess these stories will have to be thought of as unofficial alternate histories or stories.

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Old 01-28-09, 08:20 AM
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Re: UNDERWORLD 3 [No Kate Beckinsale :(]

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Remember that although he knew of Kraven's deceit due to the Nazi Lycan's (I forgot his name but remember you said that in one of the books he was a Nazi scientist) blood memories, he had no way of knowing the fate of the Death Dealers or Viktor.
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