eXcentris

I hope 40 y/o Virgin is funnier than Office Space because if it isn't, your co-worker might have a point.

Count Dooku

I haven't seen either Brokeback or CV2, but from all that I've heard about Brokeback, I'm wondering why you were laughing at it.

Oh, you're a Dice fan. Now I know why you were laughing at Brokeback Mountain.

I would never cite a film's box office take as evidence of its quality.
I say that 40 Year old Virgin is "funnier" because:
The 40 Year Old Virgin is a smart and hilarious movie.
White Chicks is a stupid and awful movie.
And if you don't agree with that, then there is something wrong with you.

Fincher Fan

While they both suck in their own ways, the correct answer is actually: who cares?

wm lopez

Do a poll.

awmurray

Well, since you asked, I thought it was funny to see two guys half fighting/half kissing then underwear being ripped off followed by one spit lubing his penis and pumping the other guy. The way the scene plays is comical. Fade to the next scene with this dialog that sent me over the edge:

"I ain't a queer you know. That was a one shot deal."

I brought up Dice because he seems to really exemplify a like-him or hate-him kind of humor. Which shows just how subjective humor is.

I like Sam Kinison, too. In the last year or so I've been to: Seinfeld (got autogrphed tickets), George Carlin, Dave Chappelle, Rita Rudner, and The Amazing Jonathan. I'll probably see Dice soon, too.

I agree with you on 40 and White Chicks...

... but not this.

digitalfreaknyc

Don't go there....please.

gameover2k2

I like WHITE CHICKS and your co worker is probably a racist

j123vt_99

Is your co-worker black? White chicks was huge in the black community

Count Dooku

Actually, the case of Andrew "Dice" Clay is an example of why disagreements about comedy can't simply be reduced to the explanation that humor is subjective.

People who don't (or rather didn't) like Dice weren't simply saying: "I don't think he's funny." Dice's funny-ness was never an issue.
Dice's jokes were racist and misogynist (which did not make him unique in the annals of comedy) But more than just that, his jokes were about violence towards, and the general degradation of, women.
And while anyone is free to stand in their driveway and talk about forcing anal sex on women. And their assembled friends are free to laugh about it.
The question is whether such a person should be given a stage and a spotlight.

Dice Clay's detractors felt that his humor encouraged violence against women, and when his defenders pointed to the people in the audience laughing, his detractors answered that that just proved their point.

It wasn't about whether he was funny, or whether you thought he was funny, or whether someone else thought he was funny. It was about (the opinion) that what he was saying was morally reprehensible.

Everything can't simply be reduced to "You liked it. I didn't. Everyone has an opinion. It's all good. We agree to disagree."

Some things are bad, and liking them is wrong. Aesthetic relativism and moral relativism are linked.

CKMorpheus

Why can't they just like what they like? Though critically 40 Year Old Virgin was a success and blew away White Chicks in sales, doesn't mean that the people who payed to see White Chicks but not 40 Year Virgin are wrong, it means they like something other than what you like. To state someone is wrong or stupid or ignorant for not liking a certain movie or song more than another, is in itself a stupid and ignorant comment. How elitist!

TheNightFlier

Movie snobs/elitist on this site? Nahhhhhhh

I don't see what the big deal is here. Everybody's sense of humor is different.

j123vt_99

also, I'd be willing to bet that most of the people trashing White Chicks never even saw that... (not that I did, because it looked like crap)

awmurray

Your response is perfect proof that humor is subjective.

I must have missed that bit. Do you have quotes or sources for that? I don't remember Dice talking about forcing sex on anyone. His schtick is actually quite the opposite... he acts as if women can't wait to satisfy his every whim.

A better question is why do you think you have the authority to stop it. It reminds me of George Carlin being arrested for his comedy routines.

Dice filled up Madison Square Garden with people who paid to see him perform. You're the only one talking about forcing anything on anyone.

Also, why do you talk about Dice in the past tense? If you want to see him, he's doing shows in Warren, MI on 04/27/06 and 04/28/06. Who exactly is being forced to attend these shows? I wish someone give me free tickets and force me to go.

Right. But we're not talking about "everything"... just humor/comedy.

Are you trying to link liking White Chicks to "morally reprehensible" behavior?

Can you please provide us with a list of comedies we're allowed to like so we don't get in any trouble? Please make it ranked so we know which ones we have to like more than the others.

Count Dooku

Think about all the things that "Why can't they just like what they like?" could be used to defend.
I've never used the opinion of critics or box office receipts to support or attack either film.
I never called any person stupid or ignorant.
Elitism is about social class and power. Nothing I'm saying has anything to do with that.

awmurray

No, you said:

So, what exactly is wrong with them if it isn't that they are stupid of ignorant?

He meant elitism as in "arrogant".

Count Dooku

Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater
Had a wife, loved to beat her
Smacked her twice across the head
Fucked her ass and went to bed

Jack and Jill went up the hill
And Jack would try to hump her.
Jill said No, and Jack said So
I'll ram it in your dumper.

I don't want to make this into a personal thing, but Dice's act was about the degradation of women, and the fact that you have turned it around to say that it's about how women want to satisfy him, is just proving the point that they weren't just "jokes".

Hickory dickory dock
Some chick was sucking my cock.
The clock struck two
I dropped my goo
I dumped the bitch on the next block.


Dice's defense of his material was always that he was just playing a comic character, but the concern of his detractors was that making rape and violence towards women into a joke encouraged his predominantly young male fans to view such behavior as acceptable, even something that women want.


Where did I say that do, or should have, the authority to stop anything?
And I didn't mention forcing anything on anyone.

When I said:"The question is whether such a person should be given a stage and a spotlight."
That's assigning moral responsibility to the owners of the stage.


BTW: Hitler filled stadiums with people who cheered his every hate-filled word.


Does he still play that character?



I guess I just have to repeat myself:

Everything can't simply be reduced to "You liked it. I didn't. Everyone has an opinion. It's all good. We agree to disagree."
Some things are bad, and liking them is wrong. Aesthetic relativism and moral relativism are linked.


One of the tactics of Nazi propaganda in the early 1930s was to use humor that degraded Jews.
The theory was that by making anti-semitism funny, it made it more acceptable. How'd that work out?

The negative stereotypical portrayal of black characters in American popular media was intended to be humorous. Did that "comedy" help keep racism alive?

I'm past talking about White Chicks and The 40-Year-Old Virgin. I'm talking about aesthetics and morals, and their connection as aspects of a human being's ability to think and judge critically. I'm talking about the dangers of philosophical relativism to our society.

Everyone gets to make their own list. That's their right.
But along with that right comes the responsibility of taking ownership of that list, and being able to defend it against criticism.

Giles

man in drag is always funny..

GoldenJCJ

I disagree...I found it mildly amusing at best.

Count Dooku

Maybe they have vitamin deficiency.


If you believe that what you think is right,
and you believe that there are such things as right and wrong,
then don't you have to believe that the people who disagree with you are wrong?

And if you don't believe that what you think is right, then why are you thinking it?

eXcentris

Considering the following by no means constitutes intelligent criticism, you might want to work on your ownership skills.

thegingerbreadm

I went in to 40 Year Old Virgin after hearing all ther hype on how hilarious it was...and i was dissapointed and found it only mildy amusing (too much improv stuff that didnt go anywhere, i tried to like it but i didnt)
I went in to White Chicks expecting it to be the worst piece of trash i've ever seen and found myself laughing in spite of myself...(ok, maybe becaue it was so stupid but still...i was laughing) so....i don't know... a tie?

Legolas

I knew someone who claimed to be a filmmaker yet thought that Taxi was a GREAT movie and Resident Evil: Apocalypse is how to do a video game movie right.

mndtrp

I liked 40 Year Old Virgin. White Chicks doesn't even look funny.

dhmac

raven56706, I think you have a perfect source on which comedies to avoid. Just ask your co-worker what he thinks of any comedy, and if he thought it was hilarious then you know to avoid it like the plague.

For instance, ask your co-worker what he thought of Big Mama's House 2?

AllHallowsEve

I can't stand movies like these, so I didn't like either.

40 Year Old Virgin
American Pie Trilogy
Big Mammas House 1/2
White Chick
Big Fat Greek Wedding
etc.

I didn't like any of them even though most of these were very popular.

Wedding Crashers was ok, but the whole "serious in love storyline" made it tedious to get through. But, it had it's moments and was probably the best of the above. A few very funny moments, but too far and few between.

I'd rather watch National Lampoon's Vacation/Animal House/Arthur again. Even Uncle Buck. Hell, I would take "I Love Lucy"/"All in the Family"/"Married with Children" reruns again. Sorry guys.