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Who looks at Star Wars as still 4-6?

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Who looks at Star Wars as still 4-6?

Old 01-11-06, 03:31 PM
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In some ways, you are totally right, I think even if the quality were better than many feel today about the PT, I still think they wouldn't have loved the PT, but probably not hated as much
I agree. In fact, I think even if they were brilliant few would like them anywhere near as much as the originals. Why? Because it's just not the same as Han, Luke, Leia, and Lando. Not everybody, so don't everyone think I'm generalizing. You just can't successfully follow or live up to such a legenday trilogy.

Last edited by Terrell; 01-11-06 at 03:45 PM.
Old 01-11-06, 03:54 PM
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Sure, the prequels don't have all of the magic that the original trilogy had when we all first saw them, but then again, movies have changed since then. More movies than ever can have great special effects and storytelling. It's not just for Star Wars anymore. Even with that, I can still respect the prequel films for what they are and I'm very happy to have them sit beside the original movies in my collection.

As for the prequels "tainting" the originals:

Just think of them as separate stories if you like. Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin have no knowledge of the events to happen in the later episodes, just as Han Luke and Leia have no knowledge of what happened in the prequels.

The whole point of watching a movie is to go along for the story. Feel excitement when a character does something amazing. Laugh if a character amuses you. Just let your knowledge of the movie go out of your head when you're watching a one that you've seen before. If you can't get into the story or get excited about scenes in a movie on repeat viewings because you know everything about it, then why bother watching any movie more than once?

Suspension of disbelief: It's what we need to do when we watch movies. And Star Wars isn't any different than Cabin Boy or Seven Samurai. They're just movies.

I think there are much worse movies out there than the Star Wars prequels, many of which we all own in our collections. How many different ways do all the bitter Star Wars fans need to express their anger with something they have no control over? And what exactly is the point? So much hatred...
Old 01-11-06, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kitkat
I just wanted them to be good movies.
I did too. Don't get me wrong, if you skip most of the Anakin/Padme scenes in AOTC it's a watchable movie. I have only seen ROTS once, but TPM is just terrible.
Old 01-11-06, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Demontooth
I did too. Don't get me wrong, if you skip most of the Anakin/Padme scenes in AOTC it's a watchable movie. I have only seen ROTS once, but TPM is just terrible.
AOTC is actually the one I liked best, of the three, and while I'm not going to seek it out, I might not actually run screaming from the room if someone else puts it on. Maybe I need to see one of these fan edits people have been mentioning.
Old 01-11-06, 06:02 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by LawnWrangler
Just think of them as separate stories if you like.
I would do that if Lucas hadn't tinkered with the originals so that I'm constantly reminded of the goddamn prequels every time I watch them. But that's opening up a whole other can of worms.
Old 01-11-06, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Fielding Mellish
The Star Wars Prequels never happened.
The Star Wars Secial Editions never happened.
Star Trek V never happened.
Star Trek: Voyager & Star Trek: Enterprise never happened.
Superman 3 & 4 never happened.
Batman Forever & Batman and Robin never happened.
A View To A Kill and Octopussy never happened.
Smokey and The Bandit 3 never happened.

True but don't forget Terminator 3.

As for me, when I think of Star Wars, I think of the original 3 masterpieces. When I think of the prequels I think of a totally different series, a name like space wars or crap wars usually pops in my head.
Old 01-11-06, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrell
Who said anything about backlash.
I did. Guess you missed it.

I said fans of the original trilogy no longer love the originals because of the disappointment in the prequels. The originals are still out there to be enjoyed as they've always been, despite the special edition. But they can't enjoy them because of their disappointment in the prequels.
And how do you know this? Because disgruntled fans made it known, quite loudly in fact, that they were dissatisfied with the direction the films were taking. Hence, the backlash.

Though it's no skin off my back. Star Wars needs to lose about a third of it's self-obssessed, possessive whiny fanbase anyway.
Along with all of its smug, glass-eyed apologists who even love PLANET OF THE HOOJIBS just because it's got the STAR WARS logo on it.

Um, no it wasn't. I've seen it. It was a thousand times worse than TPM could ever hope to be. Lucas should have hung his butt out to dry.
Wow, a thousand times worse? Well, you know the old saying: Garbage in, garbage out.
Old 01-12-06, 02:48 AM
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The prequels definitely don't ruin the originals for me, however I can just imagine young people today who don't have memories of the OT thinking that the PT 'kicks way more ass' because of the better special effects, production values. It's sort of like when I hear stupid teenagers say that Texas Chainsaw remake was way better than the original because it was bloodier and scarier, same with Dawn of the Dead and its remake.
Old 01-12-06, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
The prequels definitely don't ruin the originals for me,
Great point. It's all about each of us. Personally, I like the prequels, though not as much as I like the OT. I like a good portion of the EU stuff. But that's me. In the end, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks, it's all about me and if I get enjoyment watching the films (in whatever form - original or SE), reading the books, or playing the games. I don't apoligize for Lucas and I don't claim he raped my childhood either. I simply enjoy 'Star Wars' for what it is to me.
Old 01-12-06, 12:19 PM
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It's still 4-6 to me. I also enjoyed the idea of new Star Wars, but in the end, they were heavily dissappointing. The only one I truly enjoyed was Phantom Menace. I have no idea what ATOC was about except to show that Yoda, 'the funny looking frog', truly is a bad motherfucker. And Sith sucked.
Old 01-12-06, 01:27 PM
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The only one I truly enjoyed was Phantom Menace. I have no idea what ATOC was about except to show that Yoda, 'the funny looking frog', truly is a bad motherfucker. And Sith sucked.
I don't think I've heard that viewpoint before. If any of the prequels suck, which they don't, it's TPM that sucked. Sith is a far, far superior film to TPM in every single way, in my opinion.

Last edited by Terrell; 01-12-06 at 01:45 PM.
Old 01-12-06, 01:42 PM
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I did. Guess you missed it.
I didn't miss it.

And how do you know this?
Because they've said it, many times.

Along with all of its smug, glass-eyed apologists who even love PLANET OF THE HOOJIBS just because it's got the STAR WARS logo on it.
Ah, the hater's point of view. If you enjoyed the prequels in any way, you're an apologist. I do not hide my enjoyment of the prequels, despite their faults. If that makes me an apologist, so be it. If you don't like that, tough.

Wow, a thousand times worse? Well, you know the old saying: Garbage in, garbage out.
Coming from someone who claims it's an improvement, that's funny. I thought you had seen it. Obviously not.

Last edited by Terrell; 01-12-06 at 01:46 PM.
Old 01-12-06, 04:23 PM
  #63  
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I consider the prequels to be other movies....that way I enjoy them more
Old 01-12-06, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrell
I didn't miss it.
Then what are you whining about?

Because they've said it, many times.
So have you. You're being a hypocrite. Why is it okay for you to repeat the Apologist's Mantra over and over and over again but it's not okay for those with dissenting opinion to do the same? You keep whining about how others need to move on. Sounds like you're in desperate need of taking your own advice.

Ah, the hater's point of view. If you enjoyed the prequels in any way, you're an apologist. I do not hide my enjoyment of the prequels, despite their faults. If that makes me an apologist, so be it. If you don't like that, tough.
No, you've got it all wrong. What makes you an apologist is how you viciously attack people who don't share your love of the Prequels or the Special Editions or Lucasfilm or whatever. It goes like this: Dissenter #1 says they hate something related to STAR WARS. Then Apologist #1 comes in and instead of explaining why they love that very same thing, they personally attack Dissenter #1. THAT's what makes you a slavish, narrow-minded Apologist and not a true STAR WARS fan.

Coming from someone who claims it's an improvement, that's funny. I thought you had seen it. Obviously not.
And again, you mistaken your subjective opinion with indisputable fact...a common occurence in your often hostile posts. I know you think you're giving more weight to your opinion by starting off sentences with "In fact..." or "No, actually..." or "There is no debate..." or whatever but all it really does is reveal how insecure and close-minded you are.
Old 01-12-06, 04:58 PM
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The obligatory nostalgia: I remember when I was 10 yrs old, my mom dropping me off at the theater nearly every Saturday where I would sit through three showings of "Star Wars". I was obsessed. Have no idea how many times I saw the original.

Did the prequels ruin that? No. Except that the glaring faults of those films underscored similar faults in the OT, and unfortunately I've come to the point where I don't enjoy the OT any longer. I have a certain grudging respect for some scenes in "Empire" (a film that didn't obsess me nearly to the same extent as "Star Wars" as a child), but now I can't even stay awake during the, ahem, "climactic" battles at the end of either "Star Wars" or "ROTJ".

I just sold my boxset of the OT on this forum, and I'm happy to put these films behind me forever. Not the memories that I still carry from my childhood, but certainly these films. They simply have not stood the test of time, and for whatever reason no longer speak to that 10 year old kid who I presume is still inside me (the one who comes out for viewings of "The Wizard of Oz" or "Raiders" or "Jaws", for example).
Old 01-12-06, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by FRwL
The prequels are extended universe to me.
You know, even though I defended them in the "what universally hated movies do you like" thread, I have to kind of agree with this sentiment.
Old 01-12-06, 05:52 PM
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I was a huge Star Wars fan as a kid, saw all three in the theater when they were first released. I was lukewarm to the 'special editions' in the 90s. Then TPM came out. Despite my feeling for TPM, I still went to see AotC in the theater and it was only minor in its improvements over TPM. I've yet to see the last film and I don't own any Star Wars on DVD (hopefully someday I'll be able to buy the original films).

It also drives me crazy when people talk about the movie "Star Wars" and call it "A New Hope" or just "Episode 4" - as in, "I saw Episode 4 twenty-five times in the theater when it came out in 77". Ugh, if you saw the movie in 77 you saw STAR WARS.
Old 01-12-06, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Terrell
I don't think I've heard that viewpoint before. If any of the prequels suck, which they don't, it's TPM that sucked. Sith is a far, far superior film to TPM in every single way, in my opinion.
I know I'm in a small minority, but even though I have major issues with it, TPM remains the only one out of the new films that I would actually consider watching again.
Old 01-13-06, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tscott
Ugh, if you saw the movie in 77 you saw STAR WARS.
I want a T-shirt with that on it.

Someone else once referred to the Prequels themselves as glorified DVD supplements, as if they were little more than feature-length "Making-Ofs" which demystify and deconstruct the characters and events in STAR WARS, EMPIRE and JEDI. I'm not sure I agree with that opinion 100% but I think it comes very close.
Old 01-13-06, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Count de Monet

Someone else once referred to the Prequels themselves as glorified DVD supplements, as if they were little more than feature-length "Making-Ofs" which demystify and deconstruct the characters and events in STAR WARS, EMPIRE and JEDI. I'm not sure I agree with that opinion 100% but I think it comes very close.
The thing that comes to my mind every single time I read a similar sentiment is something Lucas said about the whole "big" story. He said something about how he knew didn't have the money to film it all, so he lifted out the "middle" section and made those parts because they were more action oriented and would probably do better. I can't remember where I read that, but it's stuck with me ever since. I do enjoy the prequels, and I think that viewing them from that very objective, not as a story on their own, but as background to the other story makes them a lot easier to take. And I have no problems with any "contradictions" with the story mind you, it's writing and acting instances that I have quibbles with.

To get (slightly) back on track, I view the movies both ways. There is "The Saga", Eps 1-6, (with the SE's of 4-6), they form a story from beginning to end, and the end of ROTJ exemplifies that, you see the celebrations across the galaxy, you realize that all these places had signifigance, that all six chapters had their part in the story.

And then there's the Holy Trilogy. The originals, with the Yub Yub Ewok ending to ROTJ. Thats the focus because these are the people that we grew up with, and watching this ending is liking hanging with some friends in the backyard on a cool summer evening around a firepit, tossing back a few cold ones.

If I may be a bit conceited, I've always wished I could get George to take a long hard look at this theory. If he care anything about the story, and mythological archetypes and all that, I think he might agree there is a place for the original editions of the OT in this world.
Old 01-13-06, 11:04 PM
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Why do people spend so much time on movies they hate so much? I don't spend hours upon hours ripping on all the Rob Schnieder movies. Just a thought.
Old 01-13-06, 11:38 PM
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Terrell

Funny how every Star Wars thread, especially regarding the prequels, are all practically identical.
Quoted for irony.

Amel

I know I'm in a small minority, but even though I have major issues with it, TPM remains the only one out of the new films that I would actually consider watching again.
I don't think it's that crazy an opinion. It's probably the only one I'd consider watching again too. I never really had that big a problem with Jar Jar. IMO, the problems were more with Jake Lloyd's performance and how silly Qui-Gon's character was. Other than that, though, it was relatively fun, and there's a sense of newness to the universe that somewhat works. Also, it's not weighed down with self-importance like the others. Clones forces the love story to its demise making me no longer care for the characters, and Sith drops the ball with the Vader arc. Don't get me wrong -- I think Sith is the best of the prequels in terms of overall quality -- but when it comes to rewatching them, there's less baggage with Menace, and I find it easier to just sit back and enjoy it for what it is.

As to the question at hand, I don't really let the prequels ruin my enjoyment of the originals, and I just treat them as two separate trilogies, one that is fun and adventurous and worth revisiting from time to time and one that isn't. I'm not angry about the new ones, and I don't hate them. They're just not particularly good movies, so I don't worry about them. The original trilogy tells a complete arc competently enough to stand alone, and I enjoy it as much now as I did before the prequels.

das

Last edited by das Monkey; 01-16-06 at 04:38 PM.
Old 01-16-06, 03:16 PM
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No, you've got it all wrong. What makes you an apologist is how you viciously attack people who don't share your love of the Prequels or the Special Editions or Lucasfilm or whatever. It goes like this: Dissenter #1 says they hate something related to STAR WARS. Then Apologist #1 comes in and instead of explaining why they love that very same thing, they personally attack Dissenter #1. THAT's what makes you a slavish, narrow-minded Apologist and not a true STAR WARS fan.
Jesus man, I think you better go back and read the thread again, because that's a complete mischaracterization. Go to any of my posts in this thread and point out to me exactly where I attacked anyone. I especially get a kick out of how you tried to emphasize it by using the word viciously. I'm guessing I have 10 or fewer posts in this thread. We were having a pretty good discussion until you came along, and got bent out of shape over something I said. I hadn't attacked a single soul, including those who didn't like the prequels. I didn't attack you either. You just got bent out of shape over something I said. Next time, try and read my posts before you go lecturing people. The worst you can accuse me of in this thread is being condescending in a couple of the points I made.

Why do people spend so much time on movies they hate so much?
Bingo! Count says I need to take my own advice and move on. I hate to tell him I get some enjoyment out of the prequels. I don't have to move on because I enjoyed them, to varying degrees.

Last edited by Terrell; 01-16-06 at 03:37 PM.
Old 01-16-06, 03:34 PM
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I don't think it's that crazy an opinion. It's probably the only one I'd consider watching again too. I never really had that big a problem with Jar Jar. IMO, the problems were more with Jake Lloyd's performance and how silly Qui-Gon's character was. Other than that, though, it was relatively fun, and there's a sense of newness to the universe that somewhat works. Also, it's not weighed down with self-importance like the others. Clones forces the love story to its demise making me no longer care for the characters, and Sith drops the ball with the Vader arc. Don't get me wrong -- I think Sith is the best of the prequels in terms of overall quality -- but when it comes to rewatching them, there's less baggage with Menace, and I find it easier to just sit back and enjoy it for what it is.
I think TPM is the weakest of the three for a number of reasons. One, Jake Lloyd was just bad. Natalie was even stiffer in TPM than she was in AOTC, I thought. Jar-Jar was nearly unbearable, and the podrace announcer was about as bad. I also think the Gungan subplot was entirely unnecessary. Lucas would have done better by having an Army of Naboo fight for it's own freedom. I also thought the way Anakin was portrayed in the space battle was just poorly thought out and concieved, and his dialogue was ridiculous considering the situation he was in. Don't even get me started on fart and poo jokes.

The strong point of the film are obviously Neeson, McGregor, and McDiarmid. I agree the Qui-Gon character was unneeded. I also like how the Jedi were handled in the film and the way Palpatine subplot was done. I loved the senate scenes, especially where Palpatine was manipulating the queen for his own gain. Most people probably thought the political stuff was boring, but I didn't. The podrace was great, and would have been better without the silly announcer. The duel in the desert with Maul and the lightsaber duel at the end were beautifully done as well. I also love Qui-Gon's funeral scene and the scene with Obi-Wan and Yoda where Obi-Wan insists he will train Anakin.

So while I agree there's more to like in the film than not like, the flaws bring it down. TPM had more flaws than the other two films. That's why I think it's the weakest. Then again, I think there's a lot more good in all three films than there is bad.

Last edited by Terrell; 01-16-06 at 03:40 PM.
Old 01-16-06, 03:37 PM
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Terrell, your opinion on TPM is right on par with mine. I liked, and disliked, everything you mentioned. Though for that one film, I'd say it was enough to bring it down to a level where I say I don't like the film.

With regards to the opening topic though, I view Star Wars this way...6 films. One of them I don't like, the other 5 I do like to varying degrees. Simple as that.

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