Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk
Reload this Page >

Just went to see Narnia - But feel like i just got out of church

Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

Just went to see Narnia - But feel like i just got out of church

Old 12-12-05, 01:00 PM
  #101  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 9,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I thought the same thing until my towns Christmas tree lighting ceremony changed to a "Holiday tree celebration" this year after something like 30 years. When I asked the organizers what holiday the tree was for, I got blank stares, but at least one of them bust out laughing. This PC crap is a bunch of bull. I don't give a damn what you're beliefs are and deal with Kwanza, Hanukkah, and other holiday celebrations by other groups all the time. I have no problem with the local Jewish temple sitting a manorah in their window for all the world to see, but someone has a problem with a nativity scene on a person's front yard?
Actually, you are comparing apples with oranges here. A menorah in a temple window is the same as having a nativiity scene on private property, which is of course people do all the time. There is a substantive difference between that and a "town's" activities, which is presumably a publicly sponsored event.
Old 12-12-05, 01:37 PM
  #102  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 68 Likes on 58 Posts
Originally Posted by Filmmaker
The problem with a film like Narnia, however, is that it's very unclear to an audience unfamiliar with the saga as to the degree of Christian dogma present in the film before actually investing in a showing of it. Movies like LAST TEMPTATION and, to a lesser degree, DOGMA have pretty self-evident agendas before one even buys a ticket, but with NARNIA, especially considering the inaccurately skewed media slant towards it being the rightful heir to PASSION OF THE CHRIST, you just don't know what you're going to get until your ass is in the theater seat.
I understand it isnt as obvious, as some movies, but my whole point is that even if it does have christian undertones, should it really matter that much? I guess I just dont understand what is so threatening about a story which might have similarities to christian themes.

I have yet to ever hear of anyone going to the movies and walking out with a new religion. If a talking lion converts someone into believing in Jesus, than well.....
Old 12-12-05, 01:39 PM
  #103  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 68 Likes on 58 Posts
Originally Posted by modfather
So you want some kind of additional rating system that will tell you how much Christian Religion is inserted into the script?

New Rating System:

AD = Atheists Delight - God is murdered on-screen!
AF = Atheists Friendly - Although God isn't murdered on-screen, several characters mockingly discuss how riduculous Christians are for believing in fairy tales!
S = Suspicious. No references to God, but some of the actors might be Christians or Jews.
TYPBH = Tie Your Ponytails Back, Hippies! This film includes the word "Goddamn". Be prepared to get pissed off that there could actually be a "God" to "Damn" something. Ridculous, childish, Santa Claus believing Christians may be sitting in the theater!
CMMWTP = Christianity Makes Me Want To Puke! How anyone can believe in "God" is sickening an an insult!
Now that is funny.
Old 12-12-05, 01:53 PM
  #104  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 24,998
Received 297 Likes on 189 Posts
How are people "imposing" their religion on you? You weren't forced to go see the movie. It doesn't matter if your issue is religion or not, an issue is an issue... and all movies express the creators' views on things.

Oh no, Chasing Amy imposed Kevin Smith's opinion of homosexuality upon me!

Oh no, Saving Private Ryan imposed Spielberg's feeling that war sucks upon me!

Oh no, The Muppet Movie imposed Jim Henson's idea of what a talking frog would look like upon me!

How dare they?

Last edited by GuessWho; 12-12-05 at 01:57 PM.
Old 12-12-05, 01:54 PM
  #105  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by modfather
But why get pissed off? I don't understand why Atheists are generally so ANGRY when God or any slight reference of "God" is in something like a movie or a book or in his likeness in a tortilla shell.
We're 10,000 miles away from "slight references"--we're talking about a work that is predicated on the Christian faith and builds its own fictional tale out of a near reinvention of The Bible; let's be authentic about the concern on the table if we're going to make any headway.

Originally Posted by modfather
As I mentioned, I'm really not religious at all (haven't been to church in 10 years). But I don't understand being ANGRY about this movie or "In God We Trust" being printed on American money. How can any good story/movie be a waste of time? Even if something "offends" you?
So I should relish being offended? Being proselytized about something the proselytizer considers fact and I consider it fiction? I should pay my own hard earned money for this "treat"?!

Originally Posted by modfather
You're no different than the nut at my work who thinks that the Harry Potter movies/books are evil and won't allow his children to see/read them.
Not at all--if NARNIA had lived up to my worst fears, I would have passed on it because it would be an insult to my convictions, but I would never denounce it as evil, just wrong-headed and fictional in an unintended sense; I would never organize mass gatherings where Narnia merchandise was burnt in a bonfire, so as to cleanse the world of any perceived dangerous potential.
Old 12-12-05, 01:55 PM
  #106  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by modfather
So you want some kind of additional rating system that will tell you how much Christian Religion is inserted into the script?

New Rating System:

AD = Atheists Delight - God is murdered on-screen!
AF = Atheists Friendly - Although God isn't murdered on-screen, several characters mockingly discuss how riduculous Christians are for believing in fairy tales!
S = Suspicious. No references to God, but some of the actors might be Christians or Jews.
TYPBH = Tie Your Ponytails Back, Hippies! This film includes the word "Goddamn". Be prepared to get pissed off that there could actually be a "God" to "Damn" something. Ridculous, childish, Santa Claus believing Christians may be sitting in the theater!
CMMWTP = Christianity Makes Me Want To Puke! How anyone can believe in "God" is sickening an an insult!
This is insulting, condescending tripe, and unworthy of a response. Just to clarify the most basic tenant of non-theism, we would never lust for the murder of God because we don't believe he exists in the first place.
Old 12-12-05, 01:56 PM
  #107  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 24,998
Received 297 Likes on 189 Posts
So, if a movie has God... and you don't believe in God, you can't enjoy it?

That's fucked up.






I don't believe in tauntauns or the wampa, but I love The Empire Strikes Back.
Old 12-12-05, 01:57 PM
  #108  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,784
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by skiblet
This movie reaks of LOTR envy.
my first thought as well.
Old 12-12-05, 01:57 PM
  #109  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by thematahara
I understand it isnt as obvious, as some movies, but my whole point is that even if it does have christian undertones, should it really matter that much? I guess I just dont understand what is so threatening about a story which might have similarities to christian themes.

I have yet to ever hear of anyone going to the movies and walking out with a new religion. If a talking lion converts someone into believing in Jesus, than well.....
I'm not fearful that NARNIA or its ilk will convert me, just waste my time proselytizing about a religion that amounts to a hill of horseshit to me--would you argue that I should be gung ho about attending a KKK meeting? Why shouldn't I? Aren't I secure enough in my beliefs to withstand their dogma? Well of course I am, but why in hell would I pay $6-$8 for such an experience?!
Old 12-12-05, 01:59 PM
  #110  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by GuessWho
How are people "imposing" their religion on you? You weren't forced to go see the movie. It doesn't matter if your issue is religion or not, an issue is an issue... and all movies express the creators' views on things.

Oh no, Chasing Amy imposed Kevin Smith's opinion of homosexuality upon me!

Oh no, Saving Private Ryan imposed Spielberg's feeling that war sucks upon me!

Oh no, The Muppet Movie imposed Jim Henson's idea of what a talking frog would look like upon me!

How dare they?
I can't fucking CONCEINVE of why this is so hard for some of you to process--all I've been inquiring about from the get-go is DOES NARNIA PROSELYTIZE OUTRIGHT OR NOT, so that I could decide if I wanted to spend my $ on it. That's it, that's all--I've never been on a crusade against Christian filmmaking, I just don't want to a) fund it and b) have my time wasted by it. Is this rocket science?
Old 12-12-05, 02:09 PM
  #111  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 68 Likes on 58 Posts
I think why everyone is questioning you so much is that you say God doesnt exist, then why all the fuss? If god doesnt exist and is make believe, than why is anything that pertains to him so threatening?
Old 12-12-05, 02:17 PM
  #112  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Okay, final breakdown--my concern is with films that push a Christian agenda on the audience. That's the long and the short of it. If God has mention or even direct play in the film, I can roll with that (check my DVD list--I own BRUCE ALMIGHTY); I simply do not want the film to have, as any specific goal, primary or otherwise, to be an agenda piece designed to proselytize Christianity as fact. When the film crosses the line from entertaining to preaching, that's when I draw the line. Curse me as a heathen if you each must, but please tell me you're all bright enough to understand this simple qualifier.
Old 12-12-05, 02:22 PM
  #113  
2017 TOTY Winner
 
Save Ferris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,579
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
The movie never mentions Jesus. The kids are called "sons of adam" and "daughters of eve" to identify them as 'human'. Other than that its a straight out fairy tale adventure with themes of sacrifice and good vs. evil

Im pretty sure the movie never mentions God either.

I saw the movie twice last weekend so Ill think harder here.

Christian agenda breakdown:
'go to church' -- not in movie
'Jesus is Lord' -- not in movie
'be good to others' -- good characters have this quality in movie
'betrayal is bad' -- shown as bad in movie
'read the Bible' -- not in movie
'Jesus died for everyones sins' -- not in movie

Like whats already been said. Lewis didnt try to write a fairy tale that REPRESENTED everything in the Bible. The Chronicles of Narnia is a mythology that has similar themes but it's its own thing entirely. People would go crazy trying to tie in direct comparisons between everything in Narnia to Christianity. In fact theres LOTS of greek and roman mythology (bacchus and silenus for example) in Narnia.

Last edited by Save Ferris; 12-12-05 at 02:34 PM.
Old 12-12-05, 02:28 PM
  #114  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Michael Corvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 62,588
Received 945 Likes on 667 Posts
Originally Posted by Filmmaker
The problem with a film like Narnia, however, is that it's very unclear to an audience unfamiliar with the saga as to the degree of Christian dogma present in the film before actually investing in a showing of it.
I call bullshit. Read this again:

Originally Posted by darkside
Come on, its a well known fact that these stories have strong Christian overtones. I can't believe people are not aware of these books. They have been popular for decades. Sure the lion is a Christlike figure, but that doesn't take away from the story or make these movies some kind of Christian propaganda.
70 posts to point this out. The novel has been out for half a century. The christian allegory has been there the ENTIRE time. This is not news. It isn't something they introduced in the films.

Quite frankly I find it refreshing that they have maintained the integrity of the novel when 99% book-to-movie translations end up butchered leaving nothining but a shell of the original source intact.

Ignorance of the source material is no excuse claim the producers are forcing a propaganda-merchandising religion on you.

Originally Posted by Filmmaker
I've never been on a crusade against Christian filmmaking, I just don't want to a) fund it and b) have my time wasted by it. Is this rocket science?
Apparently it is. Fund it? Do you actually think Disney is kicking some profit to Christian groups? That's pretty funny.
Old 12-12-05, 02:31 PM
  #115  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LorenzoL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 23,722
Received 461 Likes on 373 Posts
Originally Posted by GuessWho
I don't believe in tauntauns or the wampa, but I love The Empire Strikes Back.
Old 12-12-05, 02:36 PM
  #116  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
70 posts to point this out. The novel has been out for half a century. The christian allegory has been there the ENTIRE time. This is not news. It isn't something they introduced in the films.

Quite frankly I find it refreshing that they have maintained the integrity of the novel when 99% book-to-movie translations end up butchered leaving nothining but a shell of the original source intact.

Ignorance of the source material is no excuse claim the producers are forcing a propaganda-merchandising religion on you.
Your reading comprehension skills are in need of substantial improvement--the stories may have been out forever but I'm telling you the pun partially intended) God's truth when I say I had no idea what they were about outside of the trailer footage. My "ignorance of the source material" was NEVER used to argue that the producers were forcing a propaganda-merchandising religion on me; my "ignorance of the source material" was cited as my request for feedback as to whether the film was a propaganda piece--in other words, since simplicity in communication seems to be the necessity, I have been ASKING IF the film was a Christian agenda piece, NOT making the claim that it was. Pay attention.

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Apparently it is. Fund it? Do you actually think Disney is kicking some profit to Christian groups? That's pretty funny.
Not at all, as I previously mentioned, oh ye of little attention to detail. But if I help fund, even with my measly $6-$8, a Christian agenda film, then I convey to the studios a message of "Well done guys! This is exactly the type of entertainment you should be making more of!", which is most certainly not a message I want to be perceived as sending to the "powers that be" in Hollywood.
Old 12-12-05, 02:41 PM
  #117  
2017 TOTY Winner
 
Save Ferris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,579
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
And I thought only religious nuts were this sensitive.

heres the info you've been asking about but keep arguing if it makes you feel better.

Originally Posted by Save Ferris
The movie never mentions Jesus. The kids are called "sons of adam" and "daughters of eve" to identify them as 'human'. Other than that its a straight out fairy tale adventure with themes of sacrifice and good vs. evil

Im pretty sure the movie never mentions God either.

I saw the movie twice last weekend so Ill think harder here.

Christian agenda breakdown:
'go to church' -- not in movie
'Jesus is Lord' -- not in movie
'be good to others' -- good characters have this quality in movie
'betrayal is bad' -- shown as bad in movie
'read the Bible' -- not in movie
'Jesus died for everyones sins' -- not in movie

Like whats already been said. Lewis didnt try to write a fairy tale that REPRESENTED everything in the Bible. The Chronicles of Narnia is a mythology that has similar themes but it's its own thing entirely. People would go crazy trying to tie in direct comparisons between everything in Narnia to Christianity. In fact theres LOTS of greek and roman mythology (bacchus and silenus for example) in Narnia.
Old 12-12-05, 02:44 PM
  #118  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Yeah, thanks Ferris--I need that info very badly now 24 hours after I saw the freakin' film! Do you guys cover your eyes, point to one post per page and then read only that single post and base all of your feedback thusly???
Old 12-12-05, 02:47 PM
  #119  
2017 TOTY Winner
 
Save Ferris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,579
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
oops sorry bout that. I went to the end of this thread and saw you still asking.
Old 12-12-05, 02:52 PM
  #120  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 68 Likes on 58 Posts
Just curious as what films you consider christian agenda pieces, or propoganda.
Old 12-12-05, 02:54 PM
  #121  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
dadaluholla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wilmington, OH
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
This movie has talking beavers, if that helps you any.
Old 12-12-05, 02:58 PM
  #122  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by thematahara
Just curious as what films you consider christian agenda pieces, or propoganda.
In recent history, the only "offenders" that come to mind are, obviously, THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST and that straight-to-video LEFT BEHIND nonsense. Hollywood was loathe to push Cristian dogma until THE PASSION's success, so this is less a trend I've had to deal with up until now and more one that (and the media supports this theory) will become more prevalent in the months ahead.
Old 12-12-05, 03:01 PM
  #123  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
dadaluholla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wilmington, OH
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I didn't notice any religious overtones in this movie.
Old 12-12-05, 03:01 PM
  #124  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Right now, my location is DVDTalk, but then again, you should already know that, shouldn't you?
Posts: 6,364
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by dadaluholla
This movie has talking beavers, if that helps you any.
Yeah, they looked rather fake, as did the woves and fox (wonder how they got Aslan to look so perfect, but these animals still had that cartoony look I've come to expect from CGI?), but they were funny and endearing, and that's all that matters in the end.
Old 12-12-05, 03:07 PM
  #125  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
dadaluholla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wilmington, OH
Posts: 5,491
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
The lion did look very nice.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.