Numanoid

Man, I couldn't disagree with you more. Ever heard the term "art"?

Artman

How about we see the film in question first before we analyize it...just a suggestion. Sound good filmmaker?

The Antipodean

OK, having seen it now, I have to admit I'm a bit befuddled. I liked it OK (see my blog below for a longer review, plug plug), but as a former churchgoer who's comfortably agnostic these last 15 years or so, I didn't get particuarly whacked over the head by it being a Christian propaganda piece. The "hero dies to save us then comes back" theme is even older than Christianity, and as others have noted, it's been in everything from "ET" to "The Matrix". I'm more offended by the marketing Disney's done to make it seem like "Passion of the Christ II." C.S. Lewis, contrary to popular belief, did not explicitly intend to make Aslan Jesus, and I'm just rather sickened by Disney going after the almighty buck in such a sleazy manner. "Narnia: It's like Disneyland, but eternal!" I feel like the evangelical crowd have co-opted Lewis's creation for their own ends (Narnia Bible study guides, etc.), rather than letting it stand on its own. Sure, they're out to make a buck and dig up some more converts, but I still find it distasteful to see a book I've loved for years in a non-religious fashion turned into another ingredient in the culture wars.

thematahara

Why does it matter if there are christian themes in the story?

Duder

Sierra Disc: Aslan may not = Jesus, but C.S. Lewis explicitly stated that he is an incarnation of God in another world just like Jesus is in ours. And while I haven't read all of the Narnia books yet, I've read that there is some dialogue from Aslan in which he says that he exists in our world, but by a different name. I think it's rather silly to complain about evangelicals "co-opting" Narnia with study guides, because, well, that's sort of what EVERYONE does when they study a piece of literature and try to draw meaning out of it. It's not a matter of Narnia having a lot of Christian themes and parallels OR standing on its own as an entertaining work of fiction; it does both. Just because you've loved the books in a non-religious fashion doesn't mean other people have to approach it in the same way as you.

Also, I'd like to know exactly how Disney's marketing it as "Passion of the Christ II." All the trailers I've seen for Narnia make it look like the fun escapist fantasy adventure it is, and don't highlight the religious undertones any more than the movie itself does. Unless you think that the fact that churches and such are endorsing it must mean that Disney paid them to do so?

DodgingCars

Don't know if it was his original intention, but he certainly saw Aslan as a Jesus figure:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...903338,00.html

GreenMonkey

I read the whole Narnia series years ago as a kid - unlike LOTR I never felt a need to revisit it.

I hope the movie turns out. I was worried about interviews with the directors saying they were emphasizing the Christian allegory that forms the basis of the stories.

I'm with Tolkien on his opinion of allegory. If the movie bashes me over the head with it I might get grouchy. You can do a good job with symbolism & allegory or a bad job.

calhoun07

I don't care. That's your personal choice. Narnia does not feature the worship of Jesus Christ, it's not a church service. Aslan is a type of Christ, but the movie can be enjoyed outside of that. And Aslan isn't even worshipped in this movie. He's venerated as a king, sure, but worshipped as a God??? I don't see it.

But even if you can't enjoy it, I am sure you hate several of the other movies people posted about here that also use Christ types. Or are you just pissed off that a CS Lewis novel got made into a movie?

Filmmaker

Well, now that I've seen it (as of 6:30 this afternoon), I'd have to say...not bad at all. Fortunately, there is no more Christian dogma on display here than can be found in THE MATRIX films (though, to be fair, the latter mixed its Christian themes with many other schools of thought and belief from throughout the world, so it felt more like a philosophical melting pot of a story than NARNIA by far); the most irritated and nauseous I ever got with NARNIA was the omnipresent references to "sons of Adam" and "daughters of Eve" nonsense--so what's the deal, Adam and Eve lived in Narnia, too, or Narnians just have heard about them in the land of humans? And if Aslan is Christ, then why do we have a Narnian reference to Christmas? Wouldn't it be Aslanmas? There was a smattering of obvious silliness such as this, but it was not sufficient to derail an otherwise fun and imaginative adventure (even if it does play like a youth primer for the much more complex and layered LORD OF THE RINGS). At this point, I agree that the most insidious element to this film is not present within the film at all, but its marketing--specifically, the "underground" marketing push aimed at churches and their congregations, though I can't fault Disney for that--Disney is a business and businesses will get their $$$ in whatever manner is necessary; if that's by convincing them that NARNIA is the next PASSION OF THE CHRIST, then so be it. Take note, Christian flocks--your money isn't going to charity or to spread the so-called Word of God; it's going to line the pockets of Hollywood greedmeisters; I hope you don't delude yourself into thinking you're playing into a higher cause with your attendance to this film. It's funny--I was so concerned I'd be alienated by this film, but now I think evangelicals may be the ones left cold by it; existing only as an allegorical piece, some theist audience members may be expecting something quite a bit more overt in therms of their chosen faith, and may walk away going "that was what all the hullaballoo was about?!" Be forewarned, Christian moviegoers--THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST II this is most certainly not--think HARRY POTTER* meets THE LORD OF THE RINGS with just a sprinkle of Sunday school mentality thrown in and that's about the long and the short of it. For me, it was good fun that thankfully only strayed into dogmatic areas ever so briefly. It'll easily be a DVD purchase for me when it's released as such.

* Is anyone (non-theist) else as staggered as my wife and I that Christians are flocking to see this in droves at the same time they denounce HARRY POTTER as the work of Satan?! We could find no meaningful separation in the ethos of either, and don't tell me it's because the kids don't use magic in NARNIA--though such usage was to an admittedly far less degree, that healing potion Lucy used isn't something you can pick up down at the local Walgreens...oh, and about that--anyone else think it was goofy that ? There's a take-you-out-of-the-movie moment, but I digress...

Filmmaker

Once and for all, since you and others of your faith have misread my posts, I have not been denouncing NARNIA as definite Christian dogma; until I saw it a few hours ago, I was simply expressing my fears that it would be, so those who had already seen it could give their opinions as to whether my fears were justified or not, so I'd know what to expect, or whether to even buy a ticket for it. Get a frickin' grip, holy rollers, please!

thematahara

I've never understood why people get in such a tizzy over films that deal with religion, or have religous undertones.

When movies like Last Temptation of Christ or Dogma are released, you see christians calling for boycotts or even resorting to death threats to the filmmakers

Then when movies like Passion of the Christ or Narnia (cant really believe i'm evern comparing these two) are released we see atheists and the like screaming about propganda, blah blah blah.

Why?

These are just films, no one is holding a gun to your head to watch them. If you dont agree with them, dont watch them.

I guess what I dont understand is how people can be threatened by film when it comes to their personal beliefs. If your beliefs are so weak that you find a film offering a different viewpoint threatening than you have bigger problems to deal with.

movielib

I totally agree. That's a good way to put it: that he is a Christ type rather than Christ. Geez, there've only been about a million of those, many of them mythical and fictional, both predating and postdating the supposed "real" Jesus (whom I don't even believe was a real person).

So, although I'm an atheist, I liked the Narnia books which I read decades ago (as well as liking Lewis's Space Trilogy) in spite of their being Christian allegories. Lewis was a fine writer who, while obviously writing Christian allegory, never beat you over the head with it, at least in his fiction.

Now the film: I liked it. It's no Lord of the Rings or even Harry Potter but it is a good solid movie. The film does justice to the book and I think it's good it didn't water down Lewis's intended message because to do so would have been a disservice to him. The look, the cinematography, the effects, the score were all excellent. The children did a reasonably good job. Tilda Swinton was very well cast with her aloof and cold, icy demeanor and she was easily the best thing about the film. There were a few slow periods where I thought it should have been moved along a little more briskly. It would like to have seen more Jim Broadbent just because he's such a marvelous actor but because his part was small out of necessity I think he was kind of wasted.

***/****.

chanster

I believe the Christian Right makes up controversies in order to promote their agenda. They make up all these idiotic controversies "Happy Holiday v. Merry Christmas" so people can get worked up and think that "Others" are trying to force non-religion on them. I think its hillarious when the Catholic League calls a boycott on Wal Mart because when you searched for christmas, the holiday section of Wal Mart's site went up.

As for Narnia, wow, what a bunch of ridicoulsness. I loved Narnia as a kid and came from a mixed religion household. When I first read the series, I didn't even equate Aslan as Christ, but when I read them again a few years later, it was definitely there. The last books in the series get pretty hard core religious - I believe the Last Battle is pretty much an end of the world apocalypse type story. I haven't seen the movie, but of course, Disney would attempt to market it.

If people want to see a heavily drenched religious story, I'm sure they can find it in Narnia. HOwever, at least from my memories of the books, they can be enjoyed without having to bring your Bible.

The real crime is the decision by the publishers to tell kids to read the books out of order...I believe you start with the Magician's Nephew. What a joke! Who is the editor - George Lucas?

Does this mean the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe is assuming its rightful position as the start of the series again?>

Johnny Boy

I may be a rare example, but I don't have any religion and I don't worship any god, but I absolutely loved The Passion of the Christ. I don't care if it's propaganda or not. I'm not a Christian and I think it's a stunning movie. I own it and I've watched it about 12 times. It's amazing entertainment! Haven't seen Narnia yet, but I read it when I was a kid. Not that interested in it. I'll probably wait till it comes on TnT to watch it.

calhoun07

I never said I went to church. Nor did I see evidence to suggest anybody else responding to your posts were "holy rollers."

I honestly don't think that ALL Christians are denouncing Harry Potter. Please, don't lump all groups into one category based on a few comments. It would be like assuming all Muslim Arabs were terrorists because of a few extremist groups, or that all Christians think we should bomb abortion clinics because of a few misguided people. Not that denouncing Harry Potter is even near the same level as terrorists attacks,but the point still stands...because of a few squeaky wheels making a noise, the entire car isn't bad.

calhoun07

Which is why, quite honestly, I think the Christian Right/"Born Again" Christians in this country are not far removed from the Pharisees of Jesus' day. If you study the Pharisees, they did a lot of the same things the Christian Right of today does. They loved to make controversies to promote their agenda, and were quite publicly vocal about their "faith." And all of that, Jesus denounced in His ministry.

Iron_Giant

Great comments, that is just how I feel.

I am going to take the family to see the movie and have a great time. We also went to see Harry Potter (well, my son was not there, he was at a Birthday Party) and we had a great time at that movie also.

Life is short, why argu about silly little things like how a movie made you feel like you were at church.

Iron_Giant

I think everyone can use "Controversies" to prove their points: Republicans, Democrates, Green Party, Christians, Muslims, Jews, People who say they do not believe in God and many others.

Even you are using these "Controversies" to prove your point about how the "Christian Right" are like the Pharisees.

So, lets not just put this example onto "Christians", everyone does it, it is called human nature - something I hope we all have in common.

Cameron

Or that all black kids will ruin a steak dinner.

Duder

Indeed. I'm a Christian, and I'm a bigger fan of Harry Potter than I am of Narnia.

Filmmaker

I don't recall making any such accusation.

Then perhaps if any Christmas money comes your way, you should blow it at Lens Crafters.

Fair enough, I apologize for my lack of extreme clarification; please change the question to apply to a decent-sized (far from "a few squeaky wheels") and rather demonstrative subsection of the Christian faith and go from there...

Filmmaker

The problem with a film like Narnia, however, is that it's very unclear to an audience unfamiliar with the saga as to the degree of Christian dogma present in the film before actually investing in a showing of it. Movies like LAST TEMPTATION and, to a lesser degree, DOGMA have pretty self-evident agendas before one even buys a ticket, but with NARNIA, especially considering the inaccurately skewed media slant towards it being the rightful heir to PASSION OF THE CHRIST, you just don't know what you're going to get until your ass is in the theater seat.

modfather

But why get pissed off? I don't understand why Atheists are generally so ANGRY when God or any slight reference of "God" is in something like a movie or a book or in his likeness in a tortilla shell.

As I mentioned, I'm really not religious at all (haven't been to church in 10 years). But I don't understand being ANGRY about this movie or "In God We Trust" being printed on American money. How can any good story/movie be a waste of time? Even if something "offends" you?

You're no different than the nut at my work who thinks that the Harry Potter movies/books are evil and won't allow his children to see/read them.

Linn1

Sons of Adam is (was) a common reference for man, as was daughters of Eve for women years ago. You'd even see it in science fiction novels from the '50s. With the PC world we live in, the terms have largely disappeared. Since the children came from earth to Narnia, they were considered sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. It's much like Jews refer to themselves as children of Abraham.

I thought the same thing until my towns Christmas tree lighting ceremony changed to a "Holiday tree celebration" this year after something like 30 years. When I asked the organizers what holiday the tree was for, I got blank stares, but at least one of them bust out laughing. This PC crap is a bunch of bull. I don't give a damn what you're beliefs are and deal with Kwanza, Hanukkah, and other holiday celebrations by other groups all the time. I have no problem with the local Jewish temple sitting a manorah in their window for all the world to see, but someone has a problem with a nativity scene on a person's front yard? I've got no problem with everyone doing different things. And what's the deal with Christmas trees? I mean, it's a tree that has nothing to do wih the birth of Christ and the holiday itself is a pagan one co-opted by Christians in the first place. Why should my life and the traditions of my town or elsewhere change because of what a few people think? It's sure as crap not a "holiday tree." The bitch has been a Christmas tree for centuries.

modfather

So you want some kind of additional rating system that will tell you how much Christian Religion is inserted into the script?

New Rating System:

AD = Atheists Delight - God is murdered on-screen!
AF = Atheists Friendly - Although God isn't murdered on-screen, several characters mockingly discuss how riduculous Christians are for believing in fairy tales!
S = Suspicious. No references to God, but some of the actors might be Christians or Jews.
TYPBH = Tie Your Ponytails Back, Hippies! This film includes the word "Goddamn". Be prepared to get pissed off that there could actually be a "God" to "Damn" something. Ridculous, childish, Santa Claus believing Christians may be sitting in the theater!
CMMWTP = Christianity Makes Me Want To Puke! How anyone can believe in "God" is sickening an an insult!