Just went to see Narnia - But feel like i just got out of church
12-10-05, 05:59 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by Filmmaker
Not at all, I just don't relish the idea of having 2 hours of my life pissed away by worshippers of the great celestial Santa Claus...
Your loss, I guess. Do you react the same way to the great Japanese films that promote Zen concepts, or the fantastic Indian films which promote Hindu spirituality? Or is it the same old tired backlash against Christianity because it's the dominant religion of our culture?
12-10-05, 06:13 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Filmmaker
but if it outright proselytizes to me, I'll be one thoroughly irritated, insulted and disappointed moviegoer.
12-10-05, 06:34 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Filmmaker
See, I can't hang with that approach--it's all about moral allegory vs. moral propaganda. The films you mention aren't just allegories, they are actual Christian stories, based on Christian dogma; well made though they unarguably are, they exist to further a Christian agenda, and they are rather wanton about it, which disquiets me as a non-Christian viewer and prevents me from gaining any enjoyment out of them outside of an appreciation of their technical filmmaking accomplishments. I fervently hope NARNIA takes a more abstract approach. If the film is informed by a Christian sensibility, I can roll with that (many of the morals Christians purport to believe in are shared by many non-theists and alternate-theists), but if it outright proselytizes to me, I'll be one thoroughly irritated, insulted and disappointed moviegoer.
12-10-05, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
Your loss, I guess. Do you react the same way to the great Japanese films that promote Zen concepts, or the fantastic Indian films which promote Hindu spirituality? Or is it the same old tired backlash against Christianity because it's the dominant religion of our culture?
12-10-05, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Cygnet74
for suggesting any artist should hold back or censor themself to ensure broader appeal, your right to the name "Filmmaker" should be revoked.
12-10-05, 06:43 PM
#56
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There was just something on CNN about Disney trying to market this to "people who liked Passion of the Christ" and they went on to talk about how much money that made (cha-ching!). They also showed some seminar where some preacher guy was telling children what they should have learned from this movie while he waved a stuffed lion around.
12-10-05, 07:56 PM
#57
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Interesting article on Yahoo about CS Lewis and Belfast his hometown:
Lewis was born into a Protestant family. He became an atheist after the death of his mother but returned to Christianity later in life after meeting J.R.R. Tolkien, author of the Lord of the Rings trilogy and an enthusiastic Catholic, while teaching literature at Oxford and Cambridge.
Tolkien brought Lewis back to the faith and their relationship helped to create a spiritual bond between two traditionally conflicting religions, said Lewis biographer Derick Bingham.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051209...landfilmnarnia
Lewis was born into a Protestant family. He became an atheist after the death of his mother but returned to Christianity later in life after meeting J.R.R. Tolkien, author of the Lord of the Rings trilogy and an enthusiastic Catholic, while teaching literature at Oxford and Cambridge.
Tolkien brought Lewis back to the faith and their relationship helped to create a spiritual bond between two traditionally conflicting religions, said Lewis biographer Derick Bingham.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051209...landfilmnarnia
12-10-05, 08:45 PM
#58
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by ChristopherS
There was just something on CNN about Disney trying to market this to "people who liked Passion of the Christ" and they went on to talk about how much money that made (cha-ching!). They also showed some seminar where some preacher guy was telling children what they should have learned from this movie while he waved a stuffed lion around.
12-10-05, 10:37 PM
#59
DVD Talk Limited Edition
I rarely have ever went to church in my life, but if it involves anything close to talking beavers wearing armor I will be going tomorrow morning.
12-10-05, 11:13 PM
#60
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Thanks for all the reviews in this thread.
Everything has confirmed this is just the kind of movie I want to take my whole family to see and to enjoy.
I love to take my whole fam at the same time to a movie, but there are not that many movies that "fit the bill" for all four of us. I cannot remember the last movie we all went to.
Everything has confirmed this is just the kind of movie I want to take my whole family to see and to enjoy.
I love to take my whole fam at the same time to a movie, but there are not that many movies that "fit the bill" for all four of us. I cannot remember the last movie we all went to.
12-10-05, 11:25 PM
#61
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Well...
Originally Posted by Filmmaker
My problem is less with the Christian God than with theism in general.
12-10-05, 11:25 PM
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I saw it last night and really enjoyed it. I took the girlfriend who wasn't really thrilled at all to see it but came out raving about how much she loved it. I was finally truly amazed by CGI and how lifelike all of the talking animals appeared and moved and everything. It was very well done.
The story though, to me, while it was good, it just seemed to move too fast. It's almost like the first half or at least 1/3 of the movie is them finding their way to the wardrobe and then the next thing ya know it's like 2 days later and the 16 year old kid is leading an army of fawns and centaurs that he didn't even know 15 minutes ago. There was no real backstory or character development for most of the narnia characters, like Aslan for instance, he's this big lion that the kids love even though they've only known him for what seemed like a day or 2 tops and had maybe a 5 minute conversation with. Then there was that big centaur leader guy who seemed like an important character, but he had maybe 2 lines, a few smiles and bows and that was pretty much it.
Maybe they'll explain it all in the 12 hour directors cut dvd that's gonna come out unannounced 3 weeks after the theatrical version is released.
Still though, it was a very enjoyable movie and it's worth your $10 ticket if anything just to see beavers dressed up as knights.
The story though, to me, while it was good, it just seemed to move too fast. It's almost like the first half or at least 1/3 of the movie is them finding their way to the wardrobe and then the next thing ya know it's like 2 days later and the 16 year old kid is leading an army of fawns and centaurs that he didn't even know 15 minutes ago. There was no real backstory or character development for most of the narnia characters, like Aslan for instance, he's this big lion that the kids love even though they've only known him for what seemed like a day or 2 tops and had maybe a 5 minute conversation with. Then there was that big centaur leader guy who seemed like an important character, but he had maybe 2 lines, a few smiles and bows and that was pretty much it.
Maybe they'll explain it all in the 12 hour directors cut dvd that's gonna come out unannounced 3 weeks after the theatrical version is released.
Still though, it was a very enjoyable movie and it's worth your $10 ticket if anything just to see beavers dressed up as knights.
12-10-05, 11:46 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Filmmaker
Consider me an equal opportunity agenda hater when it comes to entertainment...
12-11-05, 12:06 AM
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I went to a Catholic grade school and this was one of main books we studied in fourth grade. Only after the book was finished and analyzed for its literary elements, did we discuss the religious implications of the book, it wasn't even a primary focus of discussion and we were a religous school. It's just simply a good book/story, you can never have heard of Christianity and still enjoy The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe as it is also classic fantasy, as well as have religous themes.
12-11-05, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Inverse
Actually, in this case it's not. Tolkien and Lewis were friends, and Tolkien began work on Lord of the Rings well over a decade before it was published. By 1950 Lewis had read/heard large chunks of the LOTR manuscript. (And
The Hobbit, which was the first appearance of Tolkien's fictional universe, came out in 1937.)
Now you know ... and knowing is half the battle!
The Hobbit, which was the first appearance of Tolkien's fictional universe, came out in 1937.)
Now you know ... and knowing is half the battle!
Oh ya, Lewis wrote his first draft of Narnia when he was 6.
12-11-05, 01:44 AM
#67
Originally Posted by Filmmaker
Not at all, I just don't relish the idea of having 2 hours of my life pissed away by worshippers of the great celestial Santa Claus...
At least I hope you weren't serious.
12-11-05, 02:04 AM
#68
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Come on, its a well known fact that these stories have strong Christian overtones. I can't believe people are not aware of these books. They have been popular for decades. Sure the lion is a Christlike figure, but that doesn't take away from the story or make these movies some kind of Christian propaganda. I'm an athiest and I have encouraged my kid to read this whole series of books. I enjoyed them quite a bit when I was his age. Man, pick your battles people. Not everything Christian is an insult to non christians.
12-11-05, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by calhoun07
I had to do a double take to see if this was a Groucho post.
At least I hope you weren't serious.
At least I hope you weren't serious.
12-11-05, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
Uhh yeah, that's what it's about... 
12-11-05, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
If you view movies simply as entertainment, then yeah, you should have your name revoked.
12-11-05, 10:32 AM
#73
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At least Scott Holleran of BoxOfficeMojo agrees with the OP.
Literary Fantasy Adaptation is Christian Tract
by Scott Holleran
Disney's The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, based on the first in a series of children's books by C.S. Lewis, puts its religious ideas—faith, sacrifice, selflessness—to graphic images of death, supernaturalism and stark terror, making it inappropriate for young children.
This fanciful Christian propaganda opens with the bombing of London as a mother and her four children run for their lives. Dad's at war when the bombs start falling and middle child Edmund (Skandar Keynes) runs back to grab his father's photograph, prompting older brother Peter (William Moseley) to admonish him for being selfish. The self must be denied, Narnia warns, for the sake of others. Or else.
What an else. But first, we meet the kids when they are sent by their mother to live in the country with an old professor. He lives in a big house with acres of empty rooms and closets and nothing for kids to do. The plot is relatively simple for a time, as the family dynamic takes shape. The youngest child, Lucy (Georgie Henley), represents pure faith and there's a responsible older sister, Susan (Anna Popplewell), and Peter, who is in charge. Selfish Edmund is the demon seed in need of redemption.
When a game of hide and seek leads Lucy into the imposing wardrobe, she steps into Narnia, a fantasy world with fauns, centaurs and an evil white witch (Tilda Swinton, dripping with contempt for children like she eats them for breakfast). Up until now, Lucy is a nice kid, but, like the movie, she grows less benign as she personifies the self-abnegation theme.
The other children follow Lucy through the gateway to snowy Narnia—the prerequisite is faith—and the conflict takes shape, with Edmund willing to sell his family to the witch, Narnia's dictator who has outlawed humans. Director Andrew Adamson (Shrek) makes the most of Lewis' characters in visual terms, though he doesn't linger for longer than a few seconds. Who can blame him? With preachy beavers, a two-faced fox and wolves, who sound like they smoke two packs a day, it would all seem a little ridiculous if kept on too long.
In fact, it does, with Narnia looking fake, though Adamson keeps it relatively convincing by moving things along at a brisk pace. The story remains intact, such as it is, with Narnians prattling on about a prophecy and someone named Aslan, a lion king (voiced by Liam Neeson) who uses mystical powers only after most of Narnia has already dropped dead. Rock bottom is reached when Santa Claus drops in looking like something the reindeer dragged in and sounding more like Oprah than a jolly old elf.
Bad Edmund gets what he has coming (by the movie's morality), which means he is undeservedly forgiven in the next instant, this being a Christian picture. Like religion, this winter wonderland is arbitrary but, on its own terms, the fantasy falls apart.
Dependable Peter leads his family into harm's way because a couple of beavers told him it's his duty to help others, which makes it still harder to accept nebulous Narnia as worth the lives of four children. The faun who befriended Lucy wanted to turn her in, the centaur had a tough time taking a liking to Peter, who's been designated the future king, and all Aslan seems to do is negotiate with the enemy and sacrifice himself. The humans are not much better; Susan, the smart sister, abandons reason, Peter is hell-bent on risking the family for Narnia and, by now, Lucy is grating on the nerves. It seems poor Edmund, imprisoned by the witch, only wanted some candy.
The big battle, with mixed match-ups and acts of valor that make no sense, is a bust. Narnia's greatest asset—Swinton as the white witch—is undone by overproduced fight photography, engaging her sword against a child in slow motion, forced to waste her best efforts at wickedness in a few moments that make her look like she's Tina Turner from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome auditioning for Madonna's Vogue video.
None of it is pretty, even when it's supposed to be, let alone exalted. Despite Adamson's mitigating efforts, Narnia stands for death, destruction and renunciation of self in a poorly disguised Christian fairy tale.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/reviews/?id=1958&p=.htm
Literary Fantasy Adaptation is Christian Tract
by Scott Holleran
Disney's The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, based on the first in a series of children's books by C.S. Lewis, puts its religious ideas—faith, sacrifice, selflessness—to graphic images of death, supernaturalism and stark terror, making it inappropriate for young children.
This fanciful Christian propaganda opens with the bombing of London as a mother and her four children run for their lives. Dad's at war when the bombs start falling and middle child Edmund (Skandar Keynes) runs back to grab his father's photograph, prompting older brother Peter (William Moseley) to admonish him for being selfish. The self must be denied, Narnia warns, for the sake of others. Or else.
What an else. But first, we meet the kids when they are sent by their mother to live in the country with an old professor. He lives in a big house with acres of empty rooms and closets and nothing for kids to do. The plot is relatively simple for a time, as the family dynamic takes shape. The youngest child, Lucy (Georgie Henley), represents pure faith and there's a responsible older sister, Susan (Anna Popplewell), and Peter, who is in charge. Selfish Edmund is the demon seed in need of redemption.
When a game of hide and seek leads Lucy into the imposing wardrobe, she steps into Narnia, a fantasy world with fauns, centaurs and an evil white witch (Tilda Swinton, dripping with contempt for children like she eats them for breakfast). Up until now, Lucy is a nice kid, but, like the movie, she grows less benign as she personifies the self-abnegation theme.
The other children follow Lucy through the gateway to snowy Narnia—the prerequisite is faith—and the conflict takes shape, with Edmund willing to sell his family to the witch, Narnia's dictator who has outlawed humans. Director Andrew Adamson (Shrek) makes the most of Lewis' characters in visual terms, though he doesn't linger for longer than a few seconds. Who can blame him? With preachy beavers, a two-faced fox and wolves, who sound like they smoke two packs a day, it would all seem a little ridiculous if kept on too long.
In fact, it does, with Narnia looking fake, though Adamson keeps it relatively convincing by moving things along at a brisk pace. The story remains intact, such as it is, with Narnians prattling on about a prophecy and someone named Aslan, a lion king (voiced by Liam Neeson) who uses mystical powers only after most of Narnia has already dropped dead. Rock bottom is reached when Santa Claus drops in looking like something the reindeer dragged in and sounding more like Oprah than a jolly old elf.
Bad Edmund gets what he has coming (by the movie's morality), which means he is undeservedly forgiven in the next instant, this being a Christian picture. Like religion, this winter wonderland is arbitrary but, on its own terms, the fantasy falls apart.
Dependable Peter leads his family into harm's way because a couple of beavers told him it's his duty to help others, which makes it still harder to accept nebulous Narnia as worth the lives of four children. The faun who befriended Lucy wanted to turn her in, the centaur had a tough time taking a liking to Peter, who's been designated the future king, and all Aslan seems to do is negotiate with the enemy and sacrifice himself. The humans are not much better; Susan, the smart sister, abandons reason, Peter is hell-bent on risking the family for Narnia and, by now, Lucy is grating on the nerves. It seems poor Edmund, imprisoned by the witch, only wanted some candy.
The big battle, with mixed match-ups and acts of valor that make no sense, is a bust. Narnia's greatest asset—Swinton as the white witch—is undone by overproduced fight photography, engaging her sword against a child in slow motion, forced to waste her best efforts at wickedness in a few moments that make her look like she's Tina Turner from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome auditioning for Madonna's Vogue video.
None of it is pretty, even when it's supposed to be, let alone exalted. Despite Adamson's mitigating efforts, Narnia stands for death, destruction and renunciation of self in a poorly disguised Christian fairy tale.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/reviews/?id=1958&p=.htm
12-11-05, 10:35 AM
#74
Moderator
Originally Posted by darkside
Come on, its a well known fact that these stories have strong Christian overtones. I can't believe people are not aware of these books. They have been popular for decades. Sure the lion is a Christlike figure, but that doesn't take away from the story or make these movies some kind of Christian propaganda. I'm an athiest and I have encouraged my kid to read this whole series of books. I enjoyed them quite a bit when I was his age. Man, pick your battles people. Not everything Christian is an insult to non christians.
